Speeding up fallow field succession

[fishpick]

I have a large fallow field that has been slowly trying to regrow native vegetation but I'd like to speed up the process.

I have been planting several hundred trees every spring from the NYS Nursery - usually I get about a 70-80% success rate after the first year - so that's helping - but 100 or so trees every year on 35 acres is... well - pretty insignificant. I am going to try some more mature / share tolerant species this year UNDER some of the shrubby dogwoods and other low growers - this may work... or it may not... depending on the soil. But still - at a couple hundred trees a year... I'm dead before I see much

Because of that I talked to my states eco folks and they suggested a soil augmentation approach may move the needle faster... basically lime and fertilizer to kick start the shrubby plants as once I get them going I have seen things progress far faster than the areas that are SILL grassy and open.

Anyone every have luck with this approach to getting an old row crop field to start to move into the "immature forest" stage of shrubs and low growth? I was thinking of a cheap Tractor Supply PTO spreader and a couple of pallets of lime and 10-10-10 applied in the spring... and see what / if anything changes on the section of land I do the application!

Another option I thought about was to mow some large swaths in the spring as soon as I can get on the land without sinking away, plow and then disk... just AS the cottonwood starts flying... although junk trees - they grow like weeds and I thought that might get things going in those sections pretty quick!

Thoughts?

 

[Like Tractors]

My agronomist friend tells me to get soil samples, then send them to a soil testing lab in order to know what the soil needs, whether it be lime and or fertilizer. Now don't go buying fertilizer and diesel fuel at the same time, the government will be watching you!

 

[RoyKing]

You state ag is probably based on a land grant university, they will probably visit your site test your soil and work up a complete plan for you for free. If you let bring students they will visit you regularly. The ag school I worked for would even do subdivision on flowers and plants and work up plans and consult with each homeowner, even take samples and help you grow roses. Monitor bugs and rodents with cameras. I put out 50 camera's and networked them to study something, we put soil monitors in everywhere hook via cell phone. So I was in the cities to the boonies.

 

[CADplans]

I had my 30 acres of trees harvested this spring,,,

for many years before harvesting, I talked to every person I could find about what to reforest the land with, basically,, ?? What type tree ??

Well,, it turns out, that there is one answer,
determine what the soil characteristics are,, and plant a tree to suit,

The pH and nutrients of my soil will support hardwoods,,
If I tried to plant some type of pine/spruce/ etc,,, I would be throwing away my money.

Also, due to sunlight, insects, and a zillion other characteristics,,, my 30 acres will repopulate to exactly what was harvested,,,

Considering the longevity of seeds, the forester said I have literally hundreds of seeds per square foot from the previous trees.
BUT, my replacement trees will not come from seeds,,, I have been told, the best trees will come from the sprouts off the stumps left behind.

So, all this blah, blah, blah,,, I am trying to say,, you can not afford to broadcast fertilize 30 acres for as many years as necessary to "convert" the soil.

Find out what trees are "native" to the soil near your 35 acres,,
Plant those trees, if you want to help them, drive a one inch bar in the ground six inches deep, a foot from the tree roots,,
Fill that hole with 10-10-10,,,

The roots will "find" the fertilizer,, and grow like crazy.,, and your wallet does not get emptied.

(I use a flower bulb planting drill to create holes around the trees in my yard, I fill about 4 holes per mature tree,, about every 3 years)

If the fertilizer is 3 feet from the roots because of broadcasting,,
the fertilizer will wash away long before the tree ever knows the fertilizer is there,,,

 

[1bush2hog]

You may want to talk to your state forestry service. They can help you with recommendations as well as possibly supplying a seedling planter and or labor to expand your planting progress

They can also advise you of any tax advantages you may or may not be elgible for

They can certainly help you establish a forestry management plan

IMO throwing out lime and fertilizer will help the grass more than anything which will hurt your seedling growth. I have planted over 3000 seedlings and have 600 more on order for planting in early 2019. Unfortunately my land is not condusive to using a planting machine due to the steepness and inaccessibility so I have to use a dibble

One thing I have learned is that using tree mats when planting seedlings will yield a much better success rate on the seedlings you plant

 

[RoyKing]

Like I said seek advice, forest service, local agriculture dept, they will be tied back to a ag school. Work the system, you could end up with free help

 

[MossRoad]

I have a large fallow field that has been slowly trying to regrow native vegetation but I'd like to speed up the process.

I have been planting several hundred trees every spring from the NYS Nursery - usually I get about a 70-80% success rate after the first year - so that's helping - but 100 or so trees every year on 35 acres is... well - pretty insignificant. I am going to try some more mature / share tolerant species this year UNDER some of the shrubby dogwoods and other low growers - this may work... or it may not... depending on the soil. But still - at a couple hundred trees a year... I'm dead before I see much

Because of that I talked to my states eco folks and they suggested a soil augmentation approach may move the needle faster... basically lime and fertilizer to kick start the shrubby plants as once I get them going I have seen things progress far faster than the areas that are SILL grassy and open.

Anyone every have luck with this approach to getting an old row crop field to start to move into the "immature forest" stage of shrubs and low growth? I was thinking of a cheap Tractor Supply PTO spreader and a couple of pallets of lime and 10-10-10 applied in the spring... and see what / if anything changes on the section of land I do the application!

Another option I thought about was to mow some large swaths in the spring as soon as I can get on the land without sinking away, plow and then disk... just AS the cottonwood starts flying... although junk trees - they grow like weeds and I thought that might get things going in those sections pretty quick!

Thoughts?

I highly suggest you contact your state forester and ask about forestry programs. For example, back around 1990 here in Indiana, we bought 20 acres of land. There were 10 exiting acres of trees, a 6 acre field, and a 4 acre field. The state forester suggested several programs, one of which was for erosion control. He came out for free, surveyed the trees in the existing 10 acre woods, gave us a tree count of number and species, developed a reforestation plan for the 4 acre field, and a plan for a windbreak around the 6 acre field and 4 acre field. All of that was FREE. Then we contacted a consulting forester, and paid him to purchase 2150 trees and several hundred shrubs, plant them in the 4 acre field and windbreaks around the 4 and 6 acre fields, side spray them with herbicide to prevent weed growth the first year, and report back to the state forester. The state forester inspected the job, and reimbursed us a percentage of the cost of the trees and labor based on the errodibility of the soil. Since it was highly errodable, they reimbursed us for 75% of the cost!!! We ended up paying just $265 (yes, two-hundred sixty-five dollars) for all of that!

All we had to agree to do was to either side-spray the trees once every year for 5 years to keep the weeds down or mow between the rows a couple times per year to keep the weeds down. After the 5 years, there were no more restrictions. We could mow the trees down if we wanted to!

So look into your state's forestry programs or wildlife habitat programs, erosion control programs, etc... start at your county extension agent.

As for letting things go wild, I highly suggest you do not do that. We did that on our 6 acre field and ended up with 5 acres of crappy cherry trees that kill out everything else under them. There's probably close to 5,000 of them on that 6 acres. I regret that decision to this day, and I'll have a mess to clean up if we ever move out there. The trees are worthless as timber and firewood. I should have kept it mowed and planted swaths of wildflowers and native grasses back when it was a farm field and not now, a field of thousands of 40' tall crap trees. When you disc up the soil and add fertilizer and wait and see what comes up, you'll see weeds and undesirable species first and foremost, I guarantee it, not the species you want to show up.

Good luck. It sounds like a nice piece of property. :thumbsup:

 

[fishheadbob]

I highly suggest you contact your state forester and ask about forestry programs. For example, back around 1990 here in Indiana, we bought 20 acres of land. There were 10 exiting acres of trees, a 6 acre field, and a 4 acre field. The state forester suggested several programs, one of which was for erosion control. He came out for free, surveyed the trees in the existing 10 acre woods, gave us a tree count of number and species, developed a reforestation plan for the 4 acre field, and a plan for a windbreak around the 6 acre field and 4 acre field. All of that was FREE. Then we contacted a consulting forester, and paid him to purchase 2150 trees and several hundred shrubs, plant them in the 4 acre field and windbreaks around the 4 and 6 acre fields, side spray them with herbicide to prevent weed growth the first year, and report back to the state forester. The state forester inspected the job, and reimbursed us a percentage of the cost of the trees and labor based on the errodibility of the soil. Since it was highly errodable, they reimbursed us for 75% of the cost!!! We ended up paying just $265 (yes, two-hundred sixty-five dollars) for all of that!

All we had to agree to do was to either side-spray the trees once every year for 5 years to keep the weeds down or mow between the rows a couple times per year to keep the weeds down. After the 5 years, there were no more restrictions. We could mow the trees down if we wanted to!

So look into your state's forestry programs or wildlife habitat programs, erosion control programs, etc... start at your county extension agent.

As for letting things go wild, I highly suggest you do not do that. We did that on our 6 acre field and ended up with 5 acres of crappy cherry trees that kill out everything else under them. There's probably close to 5,000 of them on that 6 acres. I regret that decision to this day, and I'll have a mess to clean up if we ever move out there. The trees are worthless as timber and firewood. I should have kept it mowed and planted swaths of wildflowers and native grasses back when it was a farm field and not now, a field of thousands of 40' tall crap trees. When you disc up the soil and add fertilizer and wait and see what comes up, you'll see weeds and undesirable species first and foremost, I guarantee it, not the species you want to show up.

Good luck. It sounds like a nice piece of property. :thumbsup:

Great advice above. I started off growing 400 Black Walnuts on a similar plot 45 years ago. I've made lots of mistakes and learned much since then. I would also add to visit your county Soil Conservation Service (call first) and get a free map of the soil types on your piece of land. You're likely to find that your 35 acres has a few different soil types. You will need that since the next step I'd suggest is a soil test ($20) for the different soil types. Take a bunch of pictures. Then start talking to your county forester. They normally want to know what they're dealing with instead of blindly making recommendations. Your lucky as all the resource people I've mentioned are in every county in N.Y., free or nominal fee, and are professionals. Sometimes we get something for all the taxes we pay. Often there are cost sharing programs through one agency or another like Moss Road mentions. Find out which one is offering what. Good luck.

Here's some things I wouldn't do:

Lime is about $40 per ton; if your soil test wants 5 tons per acre... A few bags through a 3 point spreader is a spit in the ocean. See what grows in the ph you have before you drop thousands.
The Saratoga Tree Nursery has never impressed me. Prices are low, so is the quality. High quality commercial nurseries exist with a better selection of higher quality seedlings.. Start educating yourself. Find your local chapter of the Forest Owners Association. Join it, go to meetings, and learn. Read everything you can about forest regeneration.

 

[newbury]

I have a large fallow field that has been slowly trying to regrow native vegetation but I'd like to speed up the process.

I have been planting several hundred trees every spring from the NYS Nursery - usually I get about a 70-80% success rate after the first year - so that's helping - but 100 or so trees every year on 35 acres is... well - pretty insignificant. I am going to try some more mature / share tolerant species this year UNDER some of the shrubby dogwoods and other low growers - this may work... or it may not... depending on the soil. But still - at a couple hundred trees a year... I'm dead before I see much

Because of that I talked to my states eco folks and they suggested a soil augmentation approach may move the needle faster... basically lime and fertilizer to kick start the shrubby plants as once I get them going I have seen things progress far faster than the areas that are SILL grassy and open.

Anyone every have luck with this approach to getting an old row crop field to start to move into the "immature forest" stage of shrubs and low growth? I was thinking of a cheap Tractor Supply PTO spreader and a couple of pallets of lime and 10-10-10 applied in the spring... and see what / if anything changes on the section of land I do the application!

Another option I thought about was to mow some large swaths in the spring as soon as I can get on the land without sinking away, plow and then disk... just AS the cottonwood starts flying... although junk trees - they grow like weeds and I thought that might get things going in those sections pretty quick!

Thoughts?

First you need to determine what you want from the land and when.
It's easy to grow "junk trees" but they are hard to get rid of. One of the reasons certain species, such as black walnut, are valuable is because they are rare and slow growing.
Determine what you want 50 years later and work towards that.

Do you want food plots? Monoculture pine?

 

[fishpick]

First you need to determine what you want from the land and when.

"cover" - as in - I don't really care about the "quality" of the species - I want things to not be wide open spaces... so birds, deer and other wildlife has shelter / food. I'm not operating on a 50 year plan - I'm operating on the observation of "there's a swath of field I didn't knock down when we bought the property 12 years ago and part of it has grown up with red dogwoods, some junk cherry and cotton woods". It's not pretty / sexy / a marvel of forestry... what it is is self sustaining, grown and growing, and most importantly cover for wildlife. It's not a mature forest - but it's cover.

I do not mind planting about 100 trees in the spring... more than that and I loath them and do mean thing to their little twig arms... and Saratoga is cheap - I don't water them, I don't tend to them... so I don't need to spend more on things that I neglect anyhow. They are trees - I'm not in the liumber business - I plant them and hope they grow.

I talked to the DEC 2 years ago about a plan - they are government employees... they came out... put markers all over with pink tape... wrote things down...
etc... etc... end result - it was as impressive as government agency work would be. Basically a non-actionable cut and paste document generated between minesweeper and solitaire games...

Using students at a land grant college is a decent idea - I'll give that a go and see if they have any interest.

As for worrying about weeds - that's part of succession - weed have a purpose to bring things up from deep in the soil bed... and generate litter that enriches the soil, etc, etc, etc... again - I'm not looking for "quality" forestry products - just a way to jump start the natural progression of things... which I know as I write it is stupid...

Honestly - I'll probably just get another 100 crappy seedlings from Saratoga that grow well here - shove them in some holes this spring... till a 1" surface scraping a swath when the cottonwood is flying to see if that will catch seeds and grow (because where the house construction was done years ago and they had bare earth during cottonwood season - is all cottonwood stands now)... and I might scatter a few bags of 10-10-10 around in a specific test area just to see if things grow differently

This is NOT a maximum effort project...

 

[MossRoad]

On our 4 acre reforestation, we did alternating rows of white pines and mixed hardwoods. The rows of pines grow in a pyramid shape quickly, which makes the rows of hardwoods planted between them stress for sunlight, causing the hardwoods to grow very, very straight and tall, which is what we want in that plot. While the pines are a single species, there's something like 7 species of oaks, black walnut, tulip poplar, and a few other species of hardwood. This was recommended to us so that if a disease or insect came through and wiped one of the species, we'd still have a forest. It worked quite well, and we now have 40' pines with 50' hardwoods poking out the top after 28 years. Several years ago, some of the oaks even started producing good amounts of acorns. The deer and turkey are thick.

Our 10 acres of existing woods are a mix of small maple and oaks, sassafras, LARGE cherry trees, and thousands of black locust trees. Our plans for that section is to remove the black locust for firewood in the front where the sugar maples are more plentiful, and remove the black locust in the back where the oaks are more plentiful. But that's at our own pace. The LARGE multi-trucked cherries are taking care of removing themselves by falling over in every wind storm.

So I remove about 50-60 locust every year for firewood, for the past 10 years. That's 500-600 trees, and you can't even notice a dent. The maples fill right in and their trunks are starting to fatten nicely. Maybe I'll make syrup when I retire. :laughing:

The land is thick with multi-flora rose and honeysuckle. The wildlife is thick and healthy. We leave most of it go with about 2 miles of trails that we maintain through it to walk and drag wood out.

It all depends on what you want to do with the property. Wildlife management. Firewood. Lumber. A mix of uses, etc... it's a great feeling to watch it develop as you tweak the plan over the years. Growing trees really mark the time. Enjoy it.

 

[fishheadbob]

"...not a maximum effort." OK. The property across the street of maybe 30 acres was a cornfield 39 years ago, abandoned since. First it grew to grass and ragweed. Then brush - mostly Viburnum - joined the party. Next to come along was some red pine, and lastly ash, maple, and black cherry ( the good stuff ). The tallest trees are probably in the 40 foot range. It's pretty impenetrable right now, and it supports a lot of wildlife. It's interesting to see the natural progression of growth. If it was mine and I wanted it to go wild, I probably would have kept a few lanes mowed so I could wander around and keep a better look at it. Probably as the hardwoods mature the underlying brush will be shaded out so somebody can walk through there again.
It is your land. If you want it to go 21st century natural, then let it go that way. It should be fun to watch.

 

[tcreeley]

Re trees - we watched a back field of our neighbor go from a hay field to woods. The local spruce came in with an occasional poplar and apple, and white pine.

I planted over a 100+ spruce for privacy - shoveling/pulling them up when small in the soggy spring and transplanting them. 30 years later they are thick and tall. The native trees do best. Spruce, poplar, red maple, local apple, larch, white pine. Nursery maples- no good. Tartarian Honesuckle - fast + thick. Red osier dogwood - ok.
But the fastest grower is honey locust.

I have wet clay soil that drains poorly. In the spring - standing water is reached a foot below the surface. Nothing will grow unless it is matched to the soil conditions- regardless of the fertility of the soil. The check the temperature zoning chart. -- I don't go wrong using the vegetation that grows locally in the same conditions. Nursery stock never seems to match up well for me.

 

[Oldoak]

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As for letting things go wild, I highly suggest you do not do that. We did that on our 6 acre field and ended up with 5 acres of crappy cherry trees that kill out everything else under them. There's probably close to 5,000 of them on that 6 acres. I regret that decision to this day, and I'll have a mess to clean up if we ever move out there. The trees are worthless as timber and firewood. I should have kept it mowed and planted swaths of wildflowers and native grasses back when it was a farm field and not now, a field of thousands of 40' tall crap trees. When you disc up the soil and add fertilizer and wait and see what comes up, you'll see weeds and undesirable species first and foremost, I guarantee it, not the species you want to show up.

Good luck. It sounds like a nice piece of property. :thumbsup:

Around here, I and many landowners would gladly trade you for all those "crappy cherry trees". Around our neck of the woods Multi-flower Rose and Russian or Autumn Olive will quickly overtake any fallow fields and clear cut forest areas in a few short years.

 

[MossRoad]

Around here, I and many landowners would gladly trade you for all those "crappy cherry trees". Around our neck of the woods Multi-flower Rose and Russian or Autumn Olive will quickly overtake any fallow fields and clear cut forest areas in a few short years.

I had multiflora rose's too. My PT425 eats them for a snack. :licking:

This is a very old grainy video from around 2002. This field is now solid 40' cherry trees every 4-5 feet apart. I should have kept it mowed.

 

[fishpick]

I wish I had a problem with anything taking over... it's just goldenrod... the portion I have not touched in 6 or 7 years has some red stem dogwood and a few scrubby trees... I would GLADLY take a stand of "junk cherry" at 15-20 feet tall right now...
Only thing that seem to "grow well" and new in the field with any regularity is poison ivy.

 

[fishpick]

Ordered some trees to plant today from the NYS Nursery... a package of 20 each of these that was recommended for my soil / location:
hybrid poplar, wetland rose, red oak, white spruce, ***** willow - their "Riparian Packet"...
and then I got 25 - Norway Spruce because those I trialed last year almost doubles in size... and while I don't want a field of pines - clumps of them are fine and dandy!
And I got 20 Black Cherry - mostly because I want a field of cherry trees to complain about like @mossroad... (and they grow wild in the hedgerows - so I assume they will be happy here)