forgeing splines using a axle and press

[otlski]

Couldnt do it today, to busy playing with the new great grand baby. Had 5 generations over taking pictures. I know I am making excuses, but I was just dieing to do a little bragging.:cloud9:

Congrats on the baby!

 

[muddstopper]

I actually started working on the boom today. Got the hub apart. Cut some flat plate to bolt to the hub flange. Chucked the hub up in the lathe and turned down the centering flange that keeps the wheel centered. I needed to to do this because the hub dia was 4 3/4 inches and the wheel center is about 6 inches. I then chucked up the flat plate and used a 4in hole saw to cut a hole in the plate and then finished boreing the hole to just clear the outer bearing surface of the hub. I then put the plate metal on the hub and used it to mark out the lug pattern on the plate. Drilled the plate and used the lugs to hold it on. Next I will be cutting my boom and cyl brackets and welding them to the plate on the hub. I have to buy a piece of heavy wall square tubeing to make the boom. Once i have the boom assembled. I will work out some sort of way to attach my turn cyl's to the axle. Welding anything to the axle is out, it will just barely fit thru the tube housing as is. I am going to try and see if I can drill a couple of holes in the axle and if so, I will probably just use some heavy pipe to slip over the splined end and let the pins hold it on. If I cant drill it, I will probably just grind it square.

 

[Big Barn]

IF you can, drill and tap a hole in the end of the axle and grind a tapered square. You could then use a bolt and flat bar tab or heavy washer to suck your “handle” in place.

You might need to heat the axle end to remove the hardness for drilling. Not sure if you want to do that or not. It’s just a thought..

 

[muddstopper]

Been reading up on axle material. It seems the rockwell hardness is around 30 to 60, depending on who makes the axle. A 1050 grade of steel is used. The hardness extends about .125-.150. So if I can get thru the first 1/8 inch or so, the rest of the axle should drill. Drilling and taping a bolt hole in the end of the shaft to hold the pitman arm I will make, might be doable and grinding a flatspot to start the drill bit on the splines might be all I need to do. I have some good cobalt drills. I will just have to try to see if I can drill the axle. I want to make the pitman arm easily removeable. I figure on making the boom turn 180*, but would like to be able to drop the pitman arm and turn the boom around to load the truck in front of the trailer. Keeping the hoses and wireing from getting all twisted up might take some figureing out.

 

[muddstopper]

Let me throw this ideal out there and see what everyone thinks. If I take some heavy wall pipe that will just fit the outside dia of the splines and use a grinder to put a keyway in the pipe and the shaft, then weld the keyway in the pipe by welding thru the slot in the pipe. Then use a couple of set screws to hold the pipe on the axle shaft. Any reason this wouldnt work. I could then weld my pitman/steering arm on the pipe. I could grind two keyway slots in the shaft on opposit sides and be able to loosen the set screws, drop the pitman turn the boom 180* and reassemble.

 

[Big Barn]

In that case grind out a couple of keyways bigger and deeper. Make your keys accordingly.

 

[muddstopper]

Chucked the axle in the lathe and tried to drill a 1/4in hole in the end. Didnt scratch it. Just curled the tip of the drill bit. Funny thing is, I used a old file to clean some of the rust off the shaft and the file would cut the shaft. It must just be harden on the spline end.

 

[Big Barn]

Did you use a center drill to start the hole?

 

[muddstopper]

The end of the axle already had a center hole, I suppose from when it was made. The drill bit just curled up on its edges. Never even made it to the bottom of the centering hole. I was only trying to drill it because it was already chucked in the lathe.

Got to go buy some tube for the boom. I think I am going to try and find some weld in sprocket hubs or taperlock bushings the right size to fit the axle. The sprocket hubs will already have a keyway cut in them so all I have to do is grind a slot in the shaft. I had a 1 7/16 taper lock bushing, but it was to big. Dont know if I can find one to fit local, but if I can, I think using a taperlock and grinding a keyway and welding my pitman arm to the sprocket the taperlock fits into, should work. Tightening the taper lock should keep the pitman arm from falling off.

I have came up with all kinds of ideals that should work since I started this thread. Not sure of which ideal is the best, but all should work. Not sure about the pressing teeth in a collar as I first considered, but I am sure some of my other ideals will be a lot easier.

 

[muddstopper]

Was getting ready to go buy the boom material but had to head back to the shop before I left. While walking around back, guess what I tripped over. I had bought a set of used log bunks a couple of years ago, thinking one day I would find a use for the metal. 4x4 sq tube. I was going to buy a piece about 7ft long, figureing I would have to cut it off when I figured out just how much I really needed. The bunks are 6ft4in long between the corner braceing. Close enough! This one has a little bow in it and I might try to straighten using heat and a welder. And I might just leave the bow in it and turn it so the end raises up. The weight might eventually pull it back straight. I can use the uprights to mount the boom on the trailer tongue. The tube will be big enough I can mount some outriggers to it if I find I need them. So far out of pocket spent, still zero$$. I did pay for the tube, at one point, but anything I scrounge in my weed pile I consider free.

 

[muddstopper]

Looked everywhere for bushings and hubs. Nothing to be found around here. Made up a order to Surplus center and headed out fishing. Who says you cant do two things at once. I can wait on parts and fish at the same time.

 

[Big Barn]

muddstopper has left the building

 

[muddstopper]

Didnt get to the lake, wife put my butt in the garden. Plan on planting corn this friday or sat if it dont rain.
Did take the time to draw up the geometry of the pitman arm and cyl connections for turning the axle. Didnt take a pic of doing this, but I think I want to explain How I do it. Maynot be the best way, but its the only way I have found to work consistantly. Plus all it takes is a scrap piece of wood and a tape measure and a drill.

First thing you need to know is the retracted lenght of the cyl you plan to use. Then the extended lenght. This will give you the total stroke. In my case, TS is 6 1/4 inches. In order to turn the axle 180 degrees. I can use the 6 1/4 stroke as the dia of the circle the pitman arm needs to make. I then take a framing square and draw a Large "T" on my welding table. The spot where the top of the T meets the upright portion is now my center of the Pitman arm. Since my stroke is 6 1/4 inchs, I measure out half that distance on the cross part of the T using the now established center point of the turning radius. I then take a paint stick, for lack of anything better, and drill a hole to use as the base and rod ends centers of the cyl. I make three holes, The base to rod at fully retractment and base to rod end fully extended. I then center the rodend full retracted measurement on the outer mark of the top of the T and use a pencle in the base end hole and use the paint stick as a protractor and draw a circle. Once The circle is drawn, I place the rod end hole fully extended on the opposite T marm and with pencle in base end, I draw another circle. Where the two circles cross is where the base of the cyl is mounted. If mounted this way, with cyl shaft centered in its stroke range, the boom will be at 90* or in line with the leg portion of the "T" and fully extended it will turn 90* ,inline with the Cross of the T and fully retracted, again 90*, inline with the cross of the "T. If you are using 2 cyl to turn the boom, when drawing your circles, just make full circles and the lines will cross again on the opposite from the first crossing and this is where you would mount the base of the second cylinder. If you dont want both rod ends of the cyl on the same pin you can make your steering arm long enough that you can mount your second cyl on the opposit side of the first cyl. Just start drawing circles again to figure out eh second cyl mount.Then plumbing you can make one cyl push and one cyl pull at the same time. Word of caution, If anything is hanging below the pitman/steering arm. there is a chance your cyl will hit it when fully extended, so it is best if you make your cyl rod mounts below the steering arm and not straddle the arm, as in a clevis. Also, if you are off just a little bit on your measurements, there is a chance your cyl will extend or retract more than is necessary to get the full 180 turn. If this happens, the cyl can cam over and try to turn the boom to far or not far enough creating binding when you want to change direction of the boom. You can also increase the dia of the steering arm to decrease turn radius, I just play with the numbers until I get the amount of turn I want. A compass comes in handy for doing that.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I actually started working on the boom today. Got the hub apart. Cut some flat plate to bolt to the hub flange. Chucked the hub up in the lathe

Since you have a lathe you can accurately grind the end of the hardened spline into a 2 step broach profile. Grind the 1st step about .040 under for a tenth inch or so. Then starting from there grind the 2nd step ~ .020 under for another quarter inch. Break the sharp end edges on the 40 under tip. Press into a hole that is 40 under in the soft plate. The sharp ground edges on the spline will cut. Use plenty of moly.

 

[muddstopper]

i cant turn the axle on my lathe. Sticking the axle thru from the back of the chuck and it isnt long enough to cut on. The axle is to long to fit between centers. My lathe has a 14in swing, but only a 24in bed. I will have to cut the keyway using a hand grinder. The good thing is, the fish where biting this morning. Caught about 40 or so spotted bass, bream, and one nice channel cat.

 

[guitarman]

check local machine shops one of them might have the right broach and could easily cut the splines for you especially if you have the piece all ready I would check with them first to make sure what size pilot hole. Or you can see if you find a broach from an industrial supplier but might be expensive, anywhere from $200 to $300 for the right one. another option is make a guide on your lathe and get a key broach which should be relatively inexpensive and carefully cut each spline tooth individually if you don' t it quite right then hat it and press axle into your splines you cut.

 

[jmc]

i cant turn the axle on my lathe. Sticking the axle thru from the back of the chuck and it isnt long enough to cut on. The axle is to long to fit between centers. My lathe has a 14in swing, but only a 24in bed.

Your picture of the axle looks like a simple 1 3/8" diameter bar with a splined end. Is there a larger section out of the picture that won't fit thru the headstock?

 

[muddstopper]

Sure there is a larger portion, the axle flange that bolts to the hub. I havent measured it but its 3 1/2-4in in dia. I have a 1940's something gearhead monach lathe. The lathe head is pretty long. When I put the axle thru the headstock it doesnt come all the way pass the jaws of the chuck. It comes far enough I can run a drill in the tailstock to try and drill it, but none of the splines show pass the chuck jaws. If I chuck the axle flange in the chuck, the splines extend pass the end of the lathe bed. My cross slide and tool holders wont reach the end to do any machine work. If I chuck the spline end of the axle in the chuck, and the flange in the tailstock, then the work area is covered by the chuck jaws. Botto line, my lathe is to short to do any machining on the spline end of the axle.

I have consided many options to make this axle and hub work, the only part giving me any problems is attaching a pitman/steering arm to the spline end of the axle. I think I have this solved as well. I will be using a keyway bored weldable sprocket hub to put on the spline end of the axle. I will grind a 5/16 keyway slot to match the one in the sprocket hub. I will use the factory set screws in the sprocket hub to hold the hub on the axle. I am also considering grinding a groove around the very end of the axle shaft to hold a e-clip, just in case the set screws dont hold or works loose. As a backup plan if the keyways dont hold. I have a bunch of roll pins. I will simply put the hub on the axle and set up the drill to drill each spline into the hub and then drive in a roll pin to act as sprocket teeth. Not precision machine work by any stretch of engineering, but hillbilly enough it will work for what i am trying to do.

 

[/pine]

This thread could use some pics...

 

[SPYDERLK]

Sure there is a larger portion, the axle flange that bolts to the hub. I havent measured it but its 3 1/2-4in in dia. I have a 1940's something gearhead monach lathe. The lathe head is pretty long. When I put the axle thru the headstock it doesnt come all the way pass the jaws of the chuck. It comes far enough I can run a drill in the tailstock to try and drill it, but none of the splines show pass the chuck jaws. If I chuck the axle flange in the chuck, the splines extend pass the end of the lathe bed. My cross slide and tool holders wont reach the end to do any machine work. If I chuck the spline end of the axle in the chuck, and the flange in the tailstock, then the work area is covered by the chuck jaws. Botto line, my lathe is to short to do any machining on the spline end of the axle.

I have consided many options to make this axle and hub work, the only part giving me any problems is attaching a pitman/steering arm to the spline end of the axle. I think I have this solved as well. I will be using a keyway bored weldable sprocket hub to put on the spline end of the axle. I will grind a 5/16 keyway slot to match the one in the sprocket hub. I will use the factory set screws in the sprocket hub to hold the hub on the axle. I am also considering grinding a groove around the very end of the axle shaft to hold a e-clip, just in case the set screws dont hold or works loose. As a backup plan if the keyways dont hold. I have a bunch of roll pins. I will simply put the hub on the axle and set up the drill to drill each spline into the hub and then drive in a roll pin to act as sprocket teeth. Not precision machine work by any stretch of engineering, but hillbilly enough it will work for what i am trying to do.

If you have a steady rest you could set the axle flange in the chuck with the carriage all the way out and the steady rest acting a couple inches inward, closer to the chuck. Extend the grinder outward from the tool post to reach the spline end of the axle. Since careful grinding with a disc is low force you should have no problem unless a long extension is necessary.