Beware of Husqvarna Garden Tractors, Front Scoop "Capable"?

[GT48DXLS]

I got to thinking about what "capable" means, as it refers to a Garden Tractor, and this came to mind;

Though there are many implements being built for our Garden Tractors, I will look at the front scoop for today.

The front scoop, verses a bucket loader is a unique ground engagement Garden Tractor implement that is designed for light loads and limited capabilities that keep the load below or at the chassis height. This allows the use of a Garden Tractor to move fill verses a wheel barrow and not go too far above the GT's center of gravity and negatively effect the equipment's design strength and capability.

A quick look at the bucket loader for comparison;

Bucket loaders are designed to go above the tractor chassis, requiring much more chassis engineering to handle the raising of the center of gravity over the chassis and potentially the tractor.

Since this is about front scoops and Garden Tractors, to include Light Garden Tractors, lets take a look at whats available.

The Agri-Fab built for Craftsman front scoop, model #24847

The Agri-Fab built for Husqvarna front scoop, model #588181401 (Agri-fab #05-04031 and succession)-(36") Bucket part #64962. I'm still including because there maybe some still out there for sale, but looks as if discontinued for Husqvarna now. Here it is;

The Husqvarna branded Agri-Fab scoop started as a 42" wide bucket, with the same limitations, near as I have been able to find, as early as 2006. 2006 is also the first time I can find the GT/TS pan style chassis being used by Husqvarna.

And it wasn't in a Garden Tractor, Husqvarna still used c-channel welded chassis in their Garden Tractor's then. Who knew husqvarna would keep adding holes and adding the lawn mower chassis in the top Garden Tractors within a couple years, it was a deluxe riding lawn mower (you won't find it on tractor data, but but you will on Husqvarna.com);

Number#96043000300

The Johnny Bucket JR, from Johnny Products has the same limitations but uses electric muscle to operate. The other two use operator muscle to operate. The JBJR;

This is how they compare;

Craftsman 36" front scoop:

1) 36" w x 14" L x 12" H - Volume= 1.7 cubic feet or 12.7 US Gallons.
A) If moving dirt at 80lbs per cubic foot= that's a total of 136lbs.....This scoop full is 64lbs under weight limit.
B) If moving sand or rock at 100lbs per cubic foot= that's a total of 170lbs.. and 30lbs under the 200lbs weight limit.

2) Maximum lift above ground- 7"

3) $599.99 MSRP- though frequently in the $400 range.

4) Requires or is recommended:
A) Wheel Weight
B) Tire Chains

5) Maximum allowable speed when attached- 3mph

6) Two mounting options, 1 for dual front mower drag links (the short support brackets), 1 for the single center mower suspension drag link (the long support brackets are to be used)

(Special note here, if you have a Husqvarna model TS with the chassis support plates, then the long support brackets will not fit without removing your chassis support plates. This will void the warranty for both the scoop and the tractor)

7) 1 year warranty on the scoop only, not use on your tractor.

8) 200lb maximum weight capacity.

Husqvarna 36" front scoop:

1) 36" w x 14" L x 12" H - Volume= 1.7 cubic feet or 12.7 US Gallons.
A) If moving dirt at 80lbs per cubic foot= that's a total of 136lbs.....This scoop full is 64lbs under weight limit.
B) If moving sand or rock at 100lbs per cubic foot= that's a total of 170lbs.. and 30lbs under the 200lbs weight limit.

2) Maximum lift above ground- 7"

3) $629.99 MSRP

4) Requires or is recommended:
A) Wheel Weight
B) Tire Chains

5) Maximum allowable speed when attached- unknown

6) Unknown mounting options- appears to be unavailable

7) 2 year warranty on the scoop only, not use on your tractor.

8) 200lb maximum weight capacity.

42" Husqvarna front scoop: Unavailable. sold 2006-2008?

Johnny Bucket JR:

1) 42" W X 14" L X 10" H- Volume= 2.5 cubic feet or 18.7 US gallons.
A) If moving dirt at 80lbs per cubic foot= that's a total of 200lbs..This scoop full is at its 200lbs weight limit.
B) If moving sand or rock at 100lbs per cubic foot= that's a total of 250lbs.. and 50lbs over the 200lbs weight limit.

2) Maximum lift above ground- 10"

3) $1,489.95 MSRP (including fast dump upgrade)

4) Requires or is recommended:
A) Wheel Weight
B) Tire chains

5) Maximum allowable speed when attached- not given.

6) Two mounting options, 1" up or !" down, to effect the 10" total lift.

7) 1Year warranty

8) 200lb maximum weight capacity.

Meet the biggest, baddest, most powerful, and most expensive Husqvarna to date:

The Husqvarna TS354D at $3,749.95 MSRP

This Husqvarna TS354D at $3,749.95 msrp is still being considered a Garden Tractor, and yet is not "capable" of operating a JBJR with 200lb weight limit. Johnny Products says this about the Husqvarna TS/GT models;

"(GT48XLSi, GT52XLSi, GT54LS, GT52XLS, GTH52XLS any 2018 and up TS3xx series such as TS348 etc. and a few others are still compatible but have a weak tractor frame design that is not strong enough for use with the Johnny Bucket)"

The Chassis is too weak for a front garden tractor scoop with a 200lb weight capacity? WOW.

Let me show you what does not have a chassis too weak for the johnny bucket;

The cheapest, most affordable, riding lawn mower that Husqvarna currently builds, $1,599.95 MSRP

The YTH18542 (18.5hp, 42" mowing deck) has a strong enough chassis for a johnny bucket.

The Craftsman LT1000, again the cheapest riding lawn tractor in Craftsman has a strong enough chassis for a Johnny Bucket.

The Cub Cadet XT1 LT42, currently the cheapest Cub Cadet riding lawn mower built, $1,699.00 MSRP has a strong enough chassis for the johnny bucket.

John Deere 100 series Riding lawn mower is currently the cheapest JD with a strong enough chassis for the Johnny Bucket at $1,599.00 MSRP.

Husqvarna is misrepresenting their product when they make people believe their TS/ GT tractors are "capable" and yet there cheap grass cutters are the only one's in the brand that have strong enough chassis for a 200lb limit front garden tractor scoop.

The other grass cutters were to just drive the point home.

Beware of Husqvarna Garden Tractors (and TS354D, etc).

:tango_face_smile:

 

[tomplum]

You put a bit of thought and effort into this. What's behind it? Very few people buy a garden tractor with a purpose to put a JB on it. You point out some interesting things though. I see the popularity of the fabricated decks increase over the past few years. The robustness of the deck housing isn't matched by the chassis either.

 

[GT48DXLS]

You put a bit of thought and effort into this. What's behind it? Very few people buy a garden tractor with a purpose to put a JB on it. You point out some interesting things though. I see the popularity of the fabricated decks increase over the past few years. The robustness of the deck housing isn't matched by the chassis either.

Very good points/ questions. I want to respond at least in brief now and then more detail later.

On 17 JULY 2017 I purchased my GT48DXLS from our local Dealer. Our Dealer claimed it was an actual "Garden Tractor" capable of all the accessories ("Ground Engagement Work") that were represented by Husqvarna in their ads.

For 62 hrs and 10 months I would have told people how good the GT was and how "capable" it was, getting so much yard work done, and a small amount of mowing.

On 07JUN2018, with 63hrs on the tractor, everything changed.





This is the short, short, short,....etc. version.

The chassis failed, completely. This failure was not due to too much weight in the bucket. It didn't magically occur because of the different brand of 200lbs weight limit scoop I had (I was using a JBJR). It didn't fail because I was driving a 5 mph max speed tractor so fast that I crashed it, which would have resulted in me going over the front as if I was in the Olympics (I had no injuries, the tractor implement had no damage, and the plastic tractor pieces were intact too). The support brackets for the scoop I was using were a bit more supportive for the tractor than the Husqvarna support brackets would have been. It's actually a simple thing that took a couple seconds, very fast. I had joined the many ranks of front snow blower owners that found themselves with a chassis that had buckled in the same identical location. While Husqvarna was busy publicly ignoring the problem with their known weak chassis, they were quickly quietly eliminating the GT from their model line up and then slapping on a thick piece of metal in this very weak spot. They called this metal piece added in 2018 a "Chassis Support Bracket". Husqvarna thinks they don't have to come clean about their weak frame, so I'm helping them. :wink:

So I had to rebuild the tractor on my own employing an engineer and credible, agriculture Fabrication shop that is approx 2 hrs from me to help me make this a true Light Garden Tractor. This manufacturer was very helpful, to include showing me what I could do that was labor intensive to help keep the costs down for me. All they do is build and fix the big machines, I was thankful for them taking this on as a small project. I have 173hrs on it now. Unlike Husqvarna's empty promises, The fabrication shop kept their word and my GT performs as it always should have, had it been fitted with a properly engineered chassis in the beginning from the manufacturer, which is what I thought I was buying in the first place, when they sold me on their "robust" frame.

So that's the short, short short, short, version..... of what was the motivation behind my post.

 

[Diggin It]

On 07JUN2018, with 63hrs on the tractor, everything changed.

You're lucky it only bent. I've seen a lot of reports of Husqy frames cracking beyond repair. But it's not an unknown problem, so I don't understand the encyclopedia above.

 

[GT48DXLS]

The above is to offer a reference, but one of the problems with putting the info out, has been the bizarre push back I've experienced at times, with an emotional response, lacking facts or even review, almost seemingly being tied in some way to Husqvarna.

I'm hoping the pictures help make it easier to understand. But mainly I just hope it helps someone that might be in the same place I was, in the beginning. Its that simple.

 

[cdaigle430]

Some of the YTH models had problems with frame cracking where it was mounted to the transaxle but that was a select few. The scoop is alot of weight and I suspect the GTH has holes drilled in a critical part of the frame that makes it prone to failure for this type of attachment.

Did you not do your homework before buying the scoop? Seems like manufacturer knew all along. I also wonder if the metal thickness is sufficient for this type of GTH.

 

[widefat]

Color me impressed - OP, you put together a great post with excellent data.

 

[4get gto]

Color me impressed - OP, you put together a great post with excellent data.

He did put a lot of interesting information for those thinking of or wanting to purchase a GT. Good to hear from people's experience 's . So for those who can't understand the encyclopedia I guess they're not looking for a GT.

 

[Rock Crawler]

There are many of us who buy a GT/TS series for the rear axle.... I bet that about 1/100th of 1% of buyers put a bucket on a garden tractor. Like, in 50 years I have never met or heard of anyone that I know or knows someone I know who has done such. So while almost everyone I have ever met in this suburban/rural area has at least a light duty riding mower, if not some sort of garden tractor.... no one has this unicorn.

So, if I was Husqvarna/Cub Cadet/Craftsman/Troy Built/XXX/XXX I would ignore the few and keep on keeping on. So few do it, so few fail compared to the many thousands sold... it is absolutely within the acceptable range of product failure. There is a price considered for failures and a price considered to prevent failures. A price for warranty work. A price for everything is considered.

In todays modern 2019 world, the garden tractor of 30 years ago is still absolutely represented in the market place. It done by the modern sub-compact tractor.

The term garden tractor today refers to a riding mower with a heavier duty rear axle assembly and powerful engine that can last for years mowing steeply sloped lawns, pulling lawn rollers, pulling aerators, pulling seed spreaders. A modern garden tractor is not what a 1970's-1980's GT was, nor is it pretending to be so. We do not have 3 points, PTO stub shafts or channel frames any longer. That is left to the sub compacts.

You really need to understand the manufacturers intent in the various products. You can not expect a very inexpensive $3500 GT to go out and do SCUT style work. There is a reason a SCUT costs $12,000, a JD X7XX Series costs $8000+..... it is because they ARE built to do the kind of things that you are trying to do. The problem is that you do not want to spend that money and your hung up on naming convention. Once you get over that accept that the naming conventions of yesterday are not applicable today, and you recalibrate yourself to the YT/GT/SCUT product steps, you'll be all set.

YT = General mowing/turf maintenance use on level to mildly sloped property. Limited to very light and infrequent trailer/implement pulling. Lower cost, less robust components. Light weight, very little turf depression in all but the softest conditions. Best for urban style smaller property in flatter areas.

GT (TS) = General mowing/turf maintenance/snow removal use on moderately sloped property. Allows for significantly heavier trailer/implement pulling and frequent use with larger loads. More costly, mid range driveline components. Light weight, very little turf depression in all but the softest conditions. Best for flat to sloped suburban or smaller rural properties, but no 4x4 typically offered. Great for maintaining a manicured and chemically treated lawn year round under adverse conditions.

SCUT = General mowing/turf maintenance/snow removal/front loader work/backhoe options/PTO/3 point/4x4 abilities. Use allows constant running on significant slopes, much heavier trailer/implement options to include true ground engaging abilities including tillers, plows, disc. Cost is significantly higher, driveline is massively heavier built. Heavier built, unless ground is hard this machine can impart depressions in the turf and underlying dirt if the moisture content is not fairly low. This is the homeowners Swiss army knife, like the higher end GT of the 70's. This is the rural property owners "bestest buddy ever"!

Some urban dwellers may need a SCUT. Some rural dwellers may find success with a YT. There is nothing carved in stone. Evaluate your needs and choose a product that appropriately answers that need with ability.

Good luck.

 

[Diggin It]

I bet that about 1/100th of 1% of buyers put a bucket on a garden tractor. Like, in 50 years I have never met or heard of anyone that I know or knows someone I know who has done such. So while almost everyone I have ever met in this suburban/rural area has at least a light duty riding mower, if not some sort of garden tractor.... no one has this unicorn.

While I don't personally know anyone who has, I know OF many on other websites who make a practice of it. Many of the 70s and 80s models Simplicities, JDs and quite a few sold by Sears were made with that capability in mind. I've read that the Sundstrand transaxles were just about the best of the kind and many are still running strong today. If I could have found a reliable machine of that era in good condition for a reasonable price, I might have gone that way instead of the SCUT.

This is a JD 318 with a 44 FEL and I'm not sure, but the BH may be an aftermarket add-on. Sold from '83 -'92 they had an 18HP gas engine, but there was a diiesel version also (332). The 400 series had factory FELs available too I believe.

 

[ning]

Did you not do your homework before buying the scoop? Seems like manufacturer knew all along. I also wonder if the metal thickness is sufficient for this type of GTH.

Ideally, equipment sold with options should properly support those options, and the "homework" should be walking into the store and buying the thing.
Given how modern companies act, though, I understand the comment, the negativity should be directed to the company that builds the tractor that won't support what they sell for it.

Regardless, this is a well-written write-up which will serve future people as a good source of "homework", not that they should have to depend on such stuff.

 

[RandyT]

Sundstrand transaxles are technically still around just not made the way they were years ago. Sundstrand partnered with Agri-Fab in a 60/40 split and formed Hydro-Gear.

 

[Rock Crawler]

While I don't personally know anyone who has, I know OF many on other websites who make a practice of it. Many of the 70s and 80s models Simplicities, JDs and quite a few sold by Sears were made with that capability in mind. I've read that the Sundstrand transaxles were just about the best of the kind and many are still running strong today. If I could have found a reliable machine of that era in good condition for a reasonable price, I might have gone that way instead of the SCUT.

This is a JD 318 with a 44 FEL and I'm not sure, but the BH may be an aftermarket add-on. Sold from '83 -'92 they had an 18HP gas engine, but there was a diiesel version also (332). The 400 series had factory FELs available too I believe.

Dude, you just totally made my point! The tractors you desire.... Are still on the market brand new today! Go pick out whatever color of SCUT you prefer and be happy. I bet price wise.... Same/same. What was retail on an entry level late 80's yard mower, and what was it on a loader/backhoe JD in the late 80's?

I bet if you look at that and factor in 35 years of inflating, you'll explain your own confusion to yourself. You are silly to think that a 2019 GT that is only $3500-$4000 is a match to the machines that your talking about.

I don't want to be rude, so I'll stop there. But I look at it this way.... My LG OLED TV cost more than my little GT. My ProRock axles in my Wrangler each cost more than that little GT. Heck, my winter beater 04 Grand Prix GT cost more than my little GT. That thing, priced at $3700.... It's an inexpensive product in today's market yet offers great value for that very low cost.

I think your head/mindset is stuck in the 80's!

 

[Rock Crawler]

$3700 today is $1750 in 1986.

Did that JD you show in the photo roll off of the dealers lot for $1750? I'm very very doubtful.

 

[Diggin It]

I'm not confused. I'm saying yesterday's garden tractors are today's SCUTs. Today's 'garden tractors' that the OP is on about are nothing but yesterday's lawn tractors with different transmissions and tires, but NOT framed properly for loaders.

 

[Rock Crawler]

Re: Beware of Husqvarna Garden Tractors, Front Scoop "Capable"?

That JD 318? $4999 MSRP bare naked, no deck, nothing. Your totally making my point! In today's money that thing is $12,870 bare. No deck. No loader. No backhoe. Gas engine.

These people want to compare a value leader in today's market that is a fraction of the price that they want to compare against. The OP is the one I'm really frustrated with.

 

[CalG]

When I read threads such as this one, it makes me appreciate the Bolens HT-23 more. ;-)

That is a "real" garden tractor that continues to serve me well after more than 20 years service and it came to me "beat and broken".

Good iron and steel!

 

[cdaigle430]

Ideally, equipment sold with options should properly support those options, and the "homework" should be walking into the store and buying the thing.
Given how modern companies act, though, I understand the comment, the negativity should be directed to the company that builds the tractor that won't support what they sell for it.

Regardless, this is a well-written write-up which will serve future people as a good source of "homework", not that they should have to depend on such stuff.

There is nothing negative about my comment-just a question. Do you folks not research comparability and recommendations on all implements you buy for your investment? Where is personal responsibility here? Never assume...

The OP indicated he\she assumed it would work because it worked for other brands that are supposedly cheaper.

I bought a huge 60 inch heavy Woodmax Snowblower for my little GC2410. I researched weight, 3pt hitch compatibility and HP rating. No one else had one of these monsters on a GC2410 so I couldn't ask. Based on my home work I just closed my eyes and ordered it, hope for the best. Turned out to be a blessing....however if it didnt work out and I broke my GC2410 I knew it was all on me.

Key thing is "personal responsibility"


That being said - if Husvarna stated in its sales literature that it will support a front scoop then its all on Husvarna

But as the OP stated the frame bends even with a front mount snowblower as well then yes I side with the OP-WTF Husvarna Engineers-you know better.

 

[ruffdog]

Garden tractors??? I'm seeing pictures of lawn tractors from big box stores. Who would think hanging a bunch of weight off the front of these mowers is a good idea? Do any of these examples have a cast iron front axle, or do they have one of those stamped steel units?

 

[Rock Crawler]

Garden tractors??? I'm seeing pictures of lawn tractors from big box stores. Who would think hanging a bunch of weight off the front of these mowers is a good idea? Do any of these examples have a cast iron front axle, or do they have one of those stamped steel units?

The Husqvarna TS348/TS354 have the cast iron front axle, but the frames are not intended for bearing additional weight of buckets. They are not the older style C channel similar to your trailer frames, instead they are now stamped plate that is bolted together. My assumption is that they followed the thinking of car manufacturers with unibody construction... lighter, cheaper and still reasonably strong for the intended function. That said, the lighter/cheaper frame on the Husqvarna has been shown in rare cases to fracture at the rear axle mounting points. This is where the plate is bent at a 90° angle to make horizontal pads thet rest on the top of the rear axle casting. It appears that if overly stressed, that bend radius fatigues and fractures along the long axis of the bend. It is not a widespread failure, but it does exist. If an older C channel type frame were still employed, I would not expect to ever hear of this type of cyclic fatigue failure.

All of the products we buy today are being "engineered" to minimize material use and push the envelope of ultimate reliability downward. It's the modern way of doing business. How cheaply can you produce a product and remain within an acceptable failure/warranty percentage. These companies calculate, track and trend failures, warranty claim costs and life spans of products and manage those facts as they are deciding what and where to cut material costs to enhance the bottom line.

But I do think it is unreasonable to compare an inexpensive modern box store or dealer sold garden tractor to a unit like the John Deere referenced a few posts above that had a corrected price of 3 times that of the modern GT. These folks did not buy a brand new 1985 JD for $1,750 and toss a loader and hoe on it. To compare a modern $3700 unit to a 30+ year old $5,000 (bare base tractor only) is totally unrealistic. The issue less about the product, and more about unreasonable expectations. Go buy a SCUT at similar inflation corrected money to that JD yesterday and the argument dies really fast.