Generator Selection?

[coobie]

its not hard to do....but multiple that by 100's i see each year. sick of it.

but a simple valve adjustment cures a myriad of problems that occur. i had one customer call me about a 10+ year old generator that he wanted replaced. said it had no compression. i came out and sure enough, 0 compression. i adjusted valves and it fired right up. 180# compression. best money he ever spent for that service call. saved him $1000's

You need to move closer to me in Michigan.LOL...What is the life span of the unit? Mine has low hours.

 

[grsthegreat]

You need to move closer to me in Michigan.LOL...

naaaa. i love Idaho. Winters arnt too brutal, low humidity and not too hot of summers.

 

[coobie]

naaaa. i love Idaho. Winters arnt too brutal, low humidity and not too hot of summers.

Asked another question what is the life span of the generac?Mine has low hours of use.

 

[Diggin It]

such as

They call for 3/4" gas line. I only have 1/2" installed. How much of a problem?

They talk about an Auxiliary Shutdown switch, but say not to use it as it 'will cause damage'. What kind of damage?

They say not to connect a flexible gas line directly to the inlet, but to use some sort of adapter. Clarify?

 

[Diggin It]

I can't recall LP being over $2, maybe $2.50 at the most.

Considering an SLA battery.

I noticed the valve issue also.

Thinking about some of the add on items for monitoring. Not sure if I need them at the prices I'm seeing.

 

[grsthegreat]

Asked another question what is the life span of the generac?Mine has low hours of use.

i service units that are over 20 years old.
all depends on service. they say there 3,000 run hour engines, but i work on ones that have over that. mine is nearing 4 years ond, had 32 hours on it. i serviced one today thats 1.5 years ols, had 95 hours on it.

 

[grsthegreat]

They call for 3/4" gas line. I only have 1/2" installed. How much of a problem?

They talk about an Auxiliary Shutdown switch, but say not to use it as it 'will cause damage'. What kind of damage?

They say not to connect a flexible gas line directly to the inlet, but to use some sort of adapter. Clarify?

depends on weather your propane or nat gas. also depends on size of generator and distance from secondary pressure regulator. i try to install generators as close to gas regulator as possible. if its propane, we try to T off BEFORE the house regulator and run a 3/4" high pressure (10#) to within 10 feet of generator. then add a secondary regulator and pipe to generator using 1" pipe. i use the included 3/4" gas flex line going from generator to my rigid gas pipe. our inspectors want to see a 3/4" x 4" nipple out of generator, then the 18" stainless gas flex that generac includes, then a shut off valve, then run to regulator.

the auxiliary shut down switch is an emergency shut down switch to be used by fire/emergency crews. required by NEC because switch to =shut down generator is locked away inside generator. wont cause any damage if only used a few time. problem is you should always first drop the load being powered first, let gen run for a minute unloaded than shut down. but if theres an emergency like a fire, who cares.

 

[TractorGuy]

Funny just topped my 1000 gal.tank for 95 cents per gallon.

Maybe Google got it wrong. Either that or the gas companies are gouging down here.

 

[grsthegreat]

I can't recall LP being over $2, maybe $2.50 at the most.

Considering an SLA battery.

I noticed the valve issue also.

Thinking about some of the add on items for monitoring. Not sure if I need them at the prices I'm seeing.

generac allows the use of any group 26 lead acid battery. sealed are recommended to change every 3 years. unsealed every 5 years.
the newer generators can also use AGM style batteries as the battery compartment is larger.

i use the Genmon monitoring system myself, but that can not be used on new Generac units as the new units are encrypted. that being said, generac 2.0 evolution units have built in WIFI thats free (basic monitoring) or for $49/year they have expanded monitoring. need a good wifi signal at unit.

no matter what system you use, you cannot stop a generator wireless during a power outage. you can only do that manually at the generator.... unless your an electronics genius that wants to build a relay, contactors, load shedding, etc.

 

[Diggin It]

depends on weather your propane or nat gas. also depends on size of generator and distance from secondary pressure regulator. i try to install generators as close to gas regulator as possible. if its propane, we try to T off BEFORE the house regulator and run a 3/4" high pressure (10#) to within 10 feet of generator. then add a secondary regulator and pipe to generator using 1" pipe. i use the included 3/4" gas flex line going from generator to my rigid gas pipe. our inspectors want to see a 3/4" x 4" nipple out of generator, then the 18" stainless gas flex that generac includes, then a shut off valve, then run to regulator.

I have 1/2" from the 500 gallon tank. There is a regulator right behind where the genset will sit. That one goes into the house for the furnace and stove. I plan on having another regulator installed in the main line for the genset only. I'm looking at the 13K, but may still go smaller.

 

[grsthegreat]

I have 1/2" from the 500 gallon tank. There is a regulator right behind where the genset will sit. That one goes into the house for the furnace and stove. I plan on having another regulator installed in the main line for the genset only. I'm looking at the 13K, but may still go smaller.

most propane systems have a primary regulator (10#) at tank. then a small line (1/2" usually but ive seen 3/4" for real long runs) to house regulator. after the house regulator the pipe sizes always increase...depending on load. my house uses 1-1/4" pipe after regulator.

On my own generator, I tee'd off underground and caught the 1/2" poly pipe. ran that to generator. then installed a secondary regulator at generator.

it all depends on size of generator used. a 13kw unit can burn 225,000 BTU of fuel at max. a 22KW unit can burn up to 355,000 BTU at max. secondary regulator has to be sized accordingly.

PLEASE NOTE. generator will need to be 5 feet from any window or door opening, and 3 feet from the back from any exterior wall. also 5' from ANY fuel regulator. the owners manual that you can see online have a good drawing.

 

[Diggin It]

most propane systems have a primary regulator (10#) at tank. then a small line (1/2" usually but ive seen 3/4" for real long runs) to house regulator. after the house regulator the pipe sizes always increase...depending on load. my house uses 1-1/4" pipe after regulator.

On my own generator, I tee'd off underground and caught the 1/2" poly pipe. ran that to generator. then installed a secondary regulator at generator.

it all depends on size of generator used. a 13kw unit can burn 225,000 BTU of fuel at max. a 22KW unit can burn up to 355,000 BTU at max. secondary regulator has to be sized accordingly.

PLEASE NOTE. generator will need to be 5 feet from any window or door opening, and 3 feet from the back from any exterior wall. also 5' from ANY fuel regulator. the owners manual that you can see online have a good drawing.

Manual I looked at says 18" from the wall which I can do. Regulator distance isn't an issue since that line will need to be reworked some for other reasons. Clearance to the windows will be borderline without setting it out in the yard which will cause other issues. But that brings up another question. I was planning on a ventilator fan of some sort to move exhaust gasses, but I only want it to run when the genset does. I'm kind of wondering if there is some kind of control line I could use to turn this external fan on when the genset is running ... maybe one of the Low voltage A/C lines ?

 

[grsthegreat]

Manual I looked at says 18" from the wall which I can do. Regulator distance isn't an issue since that line will need to be reworked some for other reasons. Clearance to the windows will be borderline without setting it out in the yard which will cause other issues. But that brings up another question. I was planning on a ventilator fan of some sort to move exhaust gasses, but I only want it to run when the genset does. I'm kind of wondering if there is some kind of control line I could use to turn this external fan on when the genset is running ... maybe one of the Low voltage A/C lines ?

your right about the 18" rule. i was thinking about the liquid cooled unit i was helping with today. that one is 3'. you only need to measure from opening windows and doors. fixed panes dont count. im not sure what to do about a demand fan. never did that before. you could use an ice cube relay connected to the dry contact attached to the side of transfer switch i suppose. The main breaker transfer switches come with a dry contact switch. you cant simply connect it to the output breaker unless wire was sized to breaker.

but im not sure youll need the fan. that generator pushes a huge amount of air.

 

[Diggin It]

With no inspections, I can do a lot of stuff others might not be able to get away with. Plan for now is to tap off the genset input of the transfer switch with a small 2 space subpanel and a couple of 20 amp breakers. I've got a piece of #10 laying around for that 2' run. That would only be energized with the genset running. That will give me a place to connect a fan if necessary and an external indicator.

It's a weird place, this is. The ONLY inspections I've ever had were the two times I needed access inside the meter base (initial install many years ago and adding the main disconnect switch a few days ago) and when we connected to county water to make sure then line was 30" deep. Electrical inspector then other day was a hoot. Stood about 10 feet from the panels, spoke as he looked ... ' ... white there to there, hot there to there, other hot there to there ...... looks good'. Took him longer to hand write the approval form than to do the work. Cost me $75 for that.

No other permits or inspections required as long as the homeowner does their own work, electrical, plumbing or carpentry.



I'm considering the optional LP tank level monitor, but I'm not sure it's worth the $200+ and I'd need to change the gauge at the tank to accept it.

Did you say $49 per YEAR for the optional information link? At $4/mo, it might be worth it.

 

[cdaigle430]

Fior those that have them, what about extended outages ... days, weeks ... ??? I've lost power twice for 10 days and several other times for a day or more.

If you had a service/warranty issue, how was it handled?

Did you install your own?

I have unlimited fuel and have had mine running for 5 days 24x7 no problem. These generators will handle a month fine. You just dont want to us them 24x7, 365 days a year, they are air cooled and not designed for that type of duty cycle.

As for warranty work-I have not had to use it yet in 4 years of ownership.

 

[cdaigle430]

A 22 kw generac is actually more fuel efficient than their 16 kw units, because there usually running at less of a load than their smaller cousin. Ive tested mine with a gauge and known quantity of fuel, and i average 2 gal per hour...average.

I am a certified Generac service tech so im biased, but that being said i have never had a claim denied by generac for a unit under warranty.... except for a few that i did not even try to submit. One for a melted control panel because they enclosed an air cooled unit, and a crushed roof because of snow shedding off of roof (poor choice of placing unit on low side of metal roof...owner install). That being said, wether you install it or someone else. Make sure there is a service tech nearby. Generac wont send you parts or pay you to repair your own unit. It has to be thru approved service company.

Yeah I agree and I found this out after the fact, the only reason I went with the 16KW is because originally I was bought the 11KW. The sales guy told me for 300 dollars more why not go 16KW-I said sure why not

 

[cdaigle430]

your right about the 18" rule. i was thinking about the liquid cooled unit i was helping with today. that one is 3'. you only need to measure from opening windows and doors. fixed panes dont count. im not sure what to do about a demand fan. never did that before. you could use an ice cube relay connected to the dry contact attached to the side of transfer switch i suppose. The main breaker transfer switches come with a dry contact switch. you cant simply connect it to the output breaker unless wire was sized to breaker.

but im not sure youll need the fan. that generator pushes a huge amount of air.

Phew, LOL-mine is 18 inches from the foundation wall.

 

[Oaktree]

[

Maybe Google got it wrong. Either that or the gas companies are gouging down here.

Propane prices are all over the map depending on where you live, not sure why. I can't imagine transportation costs account for that much of a difference.
When we got our tank filled in late May/early June it was around $3.25/gal, and unfortunately unlike other fuels you can't shop around...very few companies will fill a tank they don't own.

Then again, we don't use all that much in a given year...maybe 160-170 gal tops, so we don't get any quantity discounts.

Asked another question what is the life span of the generac?Mine has low hours of use.

Can't speak for all Generacs, but I maintain communication sites, and some of the units we have are over 25 years old, and are still working.
None of the generator techs I've used seem to like them very much though...apparently the company is difficult to deal with if they need support and/or parts.

I have heard of too many winter time LP issues. Again, are you a hands on person? Are you going to go out there with a pan of hot water and try and get it running, or just put in a call for service?

H,mm funny I have LP and NEVER had a Issue in the winter.I live in Michigan where is gets pretty darn cold.

I was thinking the same thing. I've never had a problem with propane, even in sub-zero temperatures. Diesel? Well we all know how diesel gets in cold weather.

 

[Oaktree]

With no inspections, I can do a lot of stuff others might not be able to get away with. Plan for now is to tap off the genset input of the transfer switch with a small 2 space subpanel and a couple of 20 amp breakers. I've got a piece of #10 laying around for that 2' run. That would only be energized with the genset running. That will give me a place to connect a fan if necessary and an external indicator.

It's a weird place, this is. The ONLY inspections I've ever had were the two times I needed access inside the meter base (initial install many years ago and adding the main disconnect switch a few days ago) and when we connected to county water to make sure then line was 30" deep. Electrical inspector then other day was a hoot. Stood about 10 feet from the panels, spoke as he looked ... ' ... white there to there, hot there to there, other hot there to there ...... looks good'. Took him longer to hand write the approval form than to do the work. Cost me $75 for that.

No other permits or inspections required as long as the homeowner does their own work, electrical, plumbing or carpentry.

Same where I live. When I bought this house it only had 60A service, with a fuse box that looked like it dated to the 1930s. I contacted the electric company, they gave me a meter socket (I had to use theirs), when I'd wired my new panel I called them and they ran new wires from the pole to the meter and I was good. My town doesn't have any building codes or permits, and no one from the PoCo checked any of my work.

I'm sure there are some pretty sketchy hookups in town because of that...

 

[grsthegreat]

Yeiks. I could only imagine the sketchy electrical work out there. When i see the Frankenstein jobs most homeowners try to do it really scares me. I just repaired a job that a homeowner ran. He powered up a cabin that had electric heat and an on demand water heater from a 150 amp breaker and a 100 foot underground run of 6 copper. The insulation finally burnt off and the main finally tripped. It was a zinsco breaker, so i was amazed it tripped at all. These homeowner jobs usually suck