Would you buy an electric tractor?

[DieselBound]

This is what I think is the biggest indicator for whether a viable electric tractor can be brought to market as a reasonable/attractive alternative to diesel.

Total tractor sales in 2019 (USA): ~250,000
Total passenger vehicle sales in 2019 (USA): ~17,000,000

So, ~70 times as many vehicles sold.

Unfortunately, I think the tractor market is just too small to warrant the development costs needed to put a reliable, electric tractor into production at a reasonable cost.

As much as I think it is a good idea, I think the economics of the situation dictate that they will only become a financially sustainable and reasonable alternative when they can capitalize on the technology/supply chains/etc. developed from cars.

It can easily be argued that cars aren't even an economical alternative yet. Consequently, I think electric tractors are still years (decades) away from gaining any traction (pun intended) in the market.

Yes, you've described the conundrum well. Economies of scale is going to be incredibly hard: I'm of the belief, based on world economic situation, planet carrying capacity (resources), that we'll never see any mass-marketed electric tractors; there's a possibility that there could be a handful of mega Ag operations running with electric machines (perhaps more along the lines of electric trolley systems- pulling power off of overhead lines), but I'm thinking that that kind of future is going to be a bit dystopian (security to ensure operations aren't disturbed is going to have to be incredibly high [food sources would likely be run by fewer and fewer entities, perhaps even ending up controlled by a single body]).

Higher power demand is going to be a step up from automotive demands, so expect some hurdles here that the engineers of automotive systems won't have (they'll have it, but at a much easier to work with scale). But, again, it's economies of scale that we have to focus on as the stumbling block: cost per unit. Still not addressed in this mix is rail and water transport (I'm assuming that if we can power tractors via electricity that we'd be able to do so for over-the-road transport): the more fossil fuels are cut back the more expensive fuel for those applications will be (and you can apply this to plastics, road construction and on an on...).

 

[tduby]

This is what I think is the biggest indicator for whether a viable electric tractor can be brought to market as a reasonable/attractive alternative to diesel.

Total tractor sales in 2019 (USA): ~250,000
Total passenger vehicle sales in 2019 (USA): ~17,000,000

So, ~70 times as many vehicles sold.

Unfortunately, I think the tractor market is just too small to warrant the development costs needed to put a reliable, electric tractor into production at a reasonable cost.

As much as I think it is a good idea, I think the economics of the situation dictate that they will only become a financially sustainable and reasonable alternative when they can capitalize on the technology/supply chains/etc. developed from cars.

It can easily be argued that cars aren't even an economical alternative yet. Consequently, I think electric tractors are still years (decades) away from gaining any traction (pun intended) in the market.

I think once trucks start going electric you might see more niche tractors going electric like big bud just home built tractors made from parts bins to fill a role not served by major manufacturers. I suspect they will start I. Europe and maybe eventually work their way here

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I think once trucks start going electric you might see more niche tractors going electric like big bud just home built tractors made from parts bins to fill a role not served by major manufacturers. I suspect they will start I. Europe and maybe eventually work their way here

I agree electric pick up trucks hitting the farms will pull the electric tractors to the farms. The Texan Cyber Truck and the Ford F-150 EV are going to be positive for electric tractors I expect. While the tractor below has already been mentioned I think a lot of people do not understand the impact it will have on the industry. I think starting with a Ford base was smart.

https://www.producer.com/2019/04/electric-tractors-hit-canadian-fields-with-a-whir/

The interest is there by farmers but they need to see something real. Our 2016 Nissan Leaf that we got a year ago is the only EV around that some have ever seen and the three people that have asked me the most questions were farmers. I guess they read about Lithium Ion powered tractors and without exception all three have stated that electric tractors are coming to the farm.

The new EV battery technology Tesla revealed this week at Battery Day 2020 should make its way into the Cyber trunk by the time the TX Giga Factory comes on line. This week they bought more land so the Austin location is now 4 square miles of land.

Tesla aims for 'first completion' of Gigafactory Texas in May 221 - Electrek

Batteries are the weak link of EV's of any type. This new cell technology that is already in production should be perfected as they are working to design/improve the robots to build these new cells. This new battery when used in cars increases the range by 50% and cuts the cost of batteries by 50% and cuts the foot print of new battery factories reducing capital cost. The cool part this new line of batteries weigh less as well.

 

[RSR]

I agree electric pick up trucks hitting the farms will pull the electric tractors to the farms. The Texan Cyber Truck and the Ford F-150 EV are going to be positive for electric tractors I expect. While the tractor below has already been mentioned I think a lot of people do not understand the impact it will have on the industry. I think starting with a Ford base was smart.

Electric tractors hit Canadian fields with a whir | The Western Producer

The interest is there by farmers but they need to see something real. Our 2016 Nissan Leaf that we got a year ago is the only EV around that some have ever seen and the three people that have asked me the most questions were farmers. I guess they read about Lithium Ion powered tractors and without exception all three have stated that electric tractors are coming to the farm.

The new EV battery technology Tesla revealed this week at Battery Day 2020 should make its way into the Cyber trunk by the time the TX Giga Factory comes on line. This week they bought more land so the Austin location is now 4 square miles of land.

Tesla aims for 'first completion' of Gigafactory Texas in May 221 - Electrek

Batteries are the weak link of EV's of any type. This new cell technology that is already in production should be perfected as they are working to design/improve the robots to build these new cells. This new battery when used in cars increases the range by 50% and cuts the cost of batteries by 50% and cuts the foot print of new battery factories reducing capital cost. The cool part this new line of batteries weigh less as well.

This kind of proves my point that I think main stream electric tractors are a LONG way off. As someone already pointed out, the cost for the bare tractor is $40k. For all of the attachments needed, it's pushing $70k. And, what do you get for that? A 70 year old, outdated tractor frame, ancient manual transmission, a loader with 1,000 lb lift capacity, and the need to convert all hydraulic implements to electric, or spend another $3k for a hydraulic pump that may or may not be sufficient for your needs.

Yes, they can be made in small batches, but there just isn't the demand/desire to drive development at large scales.

As it stands, you are paying double the rate of a modern day tractor for one that is 70 years old, and underperforms in comparison. That makes it nothing more than a novelty at this point. Kind of how electric cars were 20-30 years ago.

I don't think a couple more years of battery development is going to close that gap. It's going to take significant investment in developing product lines from the ground up, that are engineered specifically for the desired purpose, and that address difficult questions such as implement compatability. Plus, it will take years of demonstrated reliability to convince most people.

As much as I think electric tractors make sense, I just don't see them being successfully produced and marketed for the foreseeable future.

 

[dfkrug]

Buy a Solectric 40 hp equivalent 2 wheel drive electric tractor. Only $75,000 with options. Get future 4wd version for only $25,000 more. Runs for 8 hours (no load)!

BASE PRICE: $45,000
OPTIONS
Front Loader: $10,000
Front Hitch: $5000
Exchangeable Battery Pack: $10,000
Auxiliary Hydraulics: $5000

View attachment 670900

Yeah, that is what I mean by the "geek tax". More than twice the price of a Diesel tractor of similar size. Some will pay it.

10y ago, when Tesla's only car was the Roadster, they let me take one out with a friend for the afternoon. It was quick and fun, but heavy. It was a Lotus Elise with a large battery pack, for $150K. That was twice the price of the gasoline Lotus Elise, new from Lotus.

 

[PBinWA]

If they can make an electric ride on mower that will last for 2-3 hours - then I would start with that. I usually need my heavy equipment to work longer and harder than that.

 

[Grumpycat]

It seems like you're contradicting yourself here.

Not at all.

If a single gasoline engine is good enough for a little tractor, no separate gasoline engines for PTO, FEL, etc, then a single electric motor is still a viable experiment. If that works you can try separate electric motor for PTO but maybe you need 5 HP to move and 15 for the PTO? Then putting a large motor on PTO will be wasted most of the time.

You left out that ethanol also tends to reduce mileage by that same 10%. It's like a bartender adding water to his bottles before opening in the evening, then selling shots as full drinks.

Ethanol is a terrible motor fuel but E10 does not cost 10% on MPG. Is about 1.5% which is less than most can measure.

Real world MPG varies +-10% so to make a conclusion that a fuel returns better or worse MPG requires at least 5 tanks averaged against 5 tanks of the reference fuel.

Early 1980痴 途eformulated oxygenated fuel wrecked havoc with the original O2 sensor systems which blindly obeyed the sensor for fuel mixture. Didn稚 matter whether ethanol, MTBE, or other means used to meet EPA oxygen mandate. The excess O2 forced a richer mixture. But the EPA believed the emissions to be less.

By 1990 the EPA was silently P.O.弾d to discover ECU computer technology had advanced to where manufacturers could ignore the O2 sensor most of the time. Just use for an occasional reference point. This allowed MPG to soar on interstate where much leaner mixtures could be used for steady state operation yet remain under emission limits (that is how this differs from the VW diesel fiasco). This totally defeated the EPA痴 reformulated fuel program for cleaner-than-certified emissions.

Of course we know no government program ever dies. The reformulated fuel program is still in effect. All the data supporting remains unquestioned from 1985.

 

[4570Man]

Not at all.

If a single gasoline engine is good enough for a little tractor, no separate gasoline engines for PTO, FEL, etc, then a single electric motor is still a viable experiment. If that works you can try separate electric motor for PTO but maybe you need 5 HP to move and 15 for the PTO? Then putting a large motor on PTO will be wasted most of the time.



Ethanol is a terrible motor fuel but E10 does not cost 10% on MPG. Is about 1.5% which is less than most can measure.

Real world MPG varies +-10% so to make a conclusion that a fuel returns better or worse MPG requires at least 5 tanks averaged against 5 tanks of the reference fuel.

Early 1980痴 途eformulated oxygenated fuel wrecked havoc with the original O2 sensor systems which blindly obeyed the sensor for fuel mixture. Didn稚 matter whether ethanol, MTBE, or other means used to meet EPA oxygen mandate. The excess O2 forced a richer mixture. But the EPA believed the emissions to be less.

By 1990 the EPA was silently P.O.å¼¾d to discover ECU computer technology had advanced to where manufacturers could ignore the O2 sensor most of the time. Just use for an occasional reference point. This allowed MPG to soar on interstate where much leaner mixtures could be used for steady state operation yet remain under emission limits (that is how this differs from the VW diesel fiasco). This totally defeated the EPAç—´ reformulated fuel program for cleaner-than-certified emissions.

Of course we know no government program ever dies. The reformulated fuel program is still in effect. All the data supporting remains unquestioned from 1985.

Gasoline and diesel fuel engines can afford to waste energy. Batteries don’t have any to spare. Using one motor and wasting energy with hydraulics isn’t a good path to working with something that already offers a pitifully low energy storage.

 

[Grumpycat]

Gasoline and diesel fuel engines can afford to waste energy. Batteries don’t have any to spare. Using one motor and wasting energy with hydraulics isn’t a good path to working with something that already offers a pitifully low energy storage.

How much energy is expended powering hydraulics?

Why do you think that energy is wasted when it is doing something desirable?

Think you could turn screw jacks more efficiently and reliably with electric motors? If so then why do we use hydraulics? The one application I know of a large screw jack is the elevator of large T-tail aircraft.

Consider this: diesel locomotives and large earthmoving trucks use Diesel engine to drive an alternator which drives electric motors at the wheels. Not because it is efficient but because it is light, simple, and reliable.

 

[Grumpycat]

If they can make an electric ride on mower that will last for 2-3 hours - then I would start with that. I usually need my heavy equipment to work longer and harder than that.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-3...V0cDACh343w0QEAQYAyABEgKPePD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds