Welder/Plasma supply wireing, need homework graded

[user.69169]

Urka berrys are the best strawberrys in Bretherin Michigan.

 

[Sberry]

I didn't say I would do it but it's a legal circuit for a 225 welder. . You guys are likely smarter than I am, probably have an area of expertise way over my head but guys do work for decades and still don't grasp the basics of many common circuit designs. It ain't nothing new. The trades are full of guys do fine work every day even. Many of you able to comprehend stuff over my head but there is a missing link in this specific area. Guy hee explains how to hook a 210 to an 80 amp circuit and it's ok cause he used number 4 wire. You are skipping other design characteristics that may protect the circuit before thermal of the wire become a an issue.

 

[Sberry]

A short version is the machine will burn up before it overheats the wire
It doesn't say it's the most efficient and a super fussy operator might be able to tell the difference in wire under full load but once th machine they been making for 75 yrs with a 12 cord is connected to a 10 wire the loss is 1/4 only compared to using a 12, stepping to number 8 gains 1 more bolt and 6 another for that real world load. Note that many of the conductor sizes for 200v. Sends the current up another 4 from a 220 and 8 juice at 240
A wire a size larger is worthy investment in equity for sure. I run a buzz box 5 pounds a time with one on a 20 cord cut feel it heat up.
I am constantly surprised yet how well the code has really addressed every unconventional brainstorm I ever had. As hard as I tried on a couple occasions I never come up with any revolutionary smarter way.
It's your opinion everyone doesn't use a 6 is gonna burn the joint down and I say it ain't so. They do kind of assume that the guy doesn't put the wrong end or modify the equipment. When that happens the mfg say in the manual to consult a qualified electrician. I know a few hobby guys as good with this as any. I even run across some good 6013 guys. It outright lists the size on some or provides the correct voltage and current cpacity it sposed to provide a circuit with the cortect short circuit nteruption,,,?,,,,, nn. A fact as at least important as wire size, may be even more so given the size of more modern equipment.

 

[Sberry]

I gave away wire a receipt and range to a mason bud a while back. The real world simplicity was a risk reward but he got a wire legal size and the outlet in good shape. I done it. Can be made safe and the 6 range cord doesn't hurt. A range circuit has 6 wire. Great for single phase welding

 

[Sberry]

The thing that had my interest more than the wire size in this thread was the early on consensus that the breakers only job here was to protect the building wire from thermal.
This should be clarified that is not correct and rarely does it outside of general use multiple outlets. Simple as that.

 

[Sberry]

This is part of the reason for hard wire above 3 hp. Simply forces the user to use a dedicated circuit. Can tailor the breaker per the machine for the start load on motor circuits.

 

[Sberry]

Going to throw some irony in here, I don't disputing any previous remarks, but I have Hobart Handler 140, manual states 20 amp circuit ..... Ironically welder on 4 (highest out put setting) it trips 20 amp breaker..... Thought maybe faulty breaker so I swapped with another 20 amp breaker.... Same problem..... So after some investigation I looked at KVA specs in manual and it calculated out to actually be a 24.5 amp draw , not the 20 amp manual states at mid range settings..... SO... Here come's the issue some will have heart burn over..... Trucked off to local hardware store, got new 30 amp breaker and about 6 feet of 10/2 W ground, and best quality (single) 20 amp receptacle I could get..... Wires up new 30 amp breaker with 10/2 wire to 20 amp receptacle, labeled circuit dedicated to welder only.... Now the results, run bead for what ever time required for project, check the receptacle/plug combination for heat factor, and nothing to be concerned about and I also use a 12 gauge 25 foot extension cord with MIG machine again no heat issues, and the 14 gauge line cord supplied with welder does not show any signs of over heating.....

I also have one circuit similar for chop saw. Its problematic and there is no good other solution really. Only real legal way might be to change to a 30 end and use a 30 outlet but its rather awkward and as long as the circuit isnt used for other 120 loads its safe. The up side to this is the saw and your Hobart will handle or work safely on a 30. Most 120V wont, some air comps will. When this is done a needs a 14 cord. You went beyond, nothing wrong with it but could have used the 12.

 

[workinonit]

The thing that had my interest more than the wire size in this thread was the early on consensus that the breakers only job here was to protect the building wire from thermal.
This should be clarified that is not correct and rarely does it outside of general use multiple outlets. Simple as that.

I can most certainly agree with you based on the circuits that you have described in this thread. No way a 50 amp breaker is going to protect 12 AWG wire. But if things are sized properly and per code the breaker will most certainly protect the wiring and everything else in the circuit from a fault, overload or short circuit. In the definition below the wire is part of the electrical circuit. Please stop promoting something you have read in a Welder User Manual. Someone could take this advise and end up burning their house down.


A circuit breaker is an automatically operated electrical switch designed to protect an electrical circuit from damage caused by excess current from an overload or short circuit. Its basic function is to interrupt current flow after a fault is detected.

 

[Sberry]

Do we figure the engineers at Lincoln and Miller dont know what they are doing when they size the conductors for a welder?

 

[the old grind]

Deep well pumps are often set with wire NEC says is one size too small for hp/a. The reason is for a softer start and the motor isn't likely to draw full power or stall.

Could a welder be sized for 'typical' vs continuous use? Is the duty cycle 100% at max output or say at 2/3 or so? None of mine are.

(Motors and 3-Ph kinda go off on tangents ..)