Sberry
Platinum Member
Yesterday morning at this time was repairing a service while the lineman stood watching and waiting. You got to wonder why he didn't have to give a single instruction or suggestion
Welder/Plasma supply wireing, need homework graded
- Thread starter Western
- Start date
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Sberry
Platinum Member
I am not really an electrician but 95% is mechanical install and in my early days i copy and design well enough that people dodnt know i didnt know. Everything i harp on in these threads is from things it took me a long time to understand, its from stuff i didnt know then.
Being a wireman is a bit different than being a real electrician. I don't really know anything about electric but managed to wire a whole new house recently with the only Nick was the guy wanting 1 outlet moved 2 ft for a wall that wasn't complete yet.
My bud the owner said,,, he said just what you said he would say. Michigan has hi standards and good inspectors they now stick to the scope of the work and are diligent.
Last time I meet the man he noted all the grounds and bonds correct and I use the proper terms he said, called me Mr and that it was obvious I had done this before and we had a small discussion about load calc. He asked if I wanted to call the poco for the heat or want him to call. I let him call, the lineman was there in about 10 minutes.
Being a wireman is a bit different than being a real electrician. I don't really know anything about electric but managed to wire a whole new house recently with the only Nick was the guy wanting 1 outlet moved 2 ft for a wall that wasn't complete yet.
My bud the owner said,,, he said just what you said he would say. Michigan has hi standards and good inspectors they now stick to the scope of the work and are diligent.
Last time I meet the man he noted all the grounds and bonds correct and I use the proper terms he said, called me Mr and that it was obvious I had done this before and we had a small discussion about load calc. He asked if I wanted to call the poco for the heat or want him to call. I let him call, the lineman was there in about 10 minutes.
Sberry
Platinum Member
There are cases where uprising conductors actually throws it out of compliance when it's done for voltage drop. There are a couple versions of number 2 alum wire assemblies and cables for this. 2 2 4 6 is acceptable for service entrance at full capacity but if using it for a branch requires the breaker to max at 90 vs 100 and requires a larger ground if used for voltage drop at long distance hence the 2 2 2 4 version
They don't want to increase the impedance during a fault. Current goes way up before it clears is the simple version. .
But I am interested in what the white is called in a 120v circuit and another one being what defines an electrically grounded circuit?
They don't want to increase the impedance during a fault. Current goes way up before it clears is the simple version. .
But I am interested in what the white is called in a 120v circuit and another one being what defines an electrically grounded circuit?
Sberry
Platinum Member
Seeing on how the prevailing opinion that seems to pop up in about every other post in a thread like this about how the shack will be on fire with a 10 to a 50 for a welder I wouldnt mind reading 1 single legitimate case of it actually happening. I been at this a while, north of 40 years, have never seen it, never even heard of it, cant even recall seeing an internet version of it happening sao how does it warrant so much pure speculation as to the danger being imamate? A guy would think we would see a couple, or a few? Would think the nfpa people and the insurance would call for a code change, wouldnt be any skin off the cde crew *** and would make the wire people happy.
They however did do away with the 10 series recepts except for direct replacement to existing cuircuits in the event of damage, if the circuit is modified or moved must be upgraded to a 3 conductor 4 wire. So we disparge a leagal wire in a circuit but endorse a recept they outlaw? How does this make sense?
They however did do away with the 10 series recepts except for direct replacement to existing cuircuits in the event of damage, if the circuit is modified or moved must be upgraded to a 3 conductor 4 wire. So we disparge a leagal wire in a circuit but endorse a recept they outlaw? How does this make sense?
Sberry
Platinum Member
Usint one of the surface mount with a bakolite cover is not so much a real world problem as is mounting one in a metal box on a cable. What the real worls math as regarding the danger is I am not sure but its partly due to the fact its forbidden. Not that we havnt all done it, I still have some remnants and change some when I get a chance or wire it with a bond, still doesnt make it klegal but follows the intent to ground it properly. If the circuit is piped metal back to the panel reduces the chance for some error.
workinonit
Elite Member
I bet Western has learned his lesson about asking electrical and welding questions. My apologies to him. All I was doing with my initial response was to let him know what I did for my multiple machines utilizing a single circuit. And 7 pages later here we are. A whole lot of useless information he didn't ask for. I'm done with this thread.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
holy crap. id like to see that in ANY NEC code book. you do know #12 is rated 20 amps right
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
im done with this thread. i dont want anything to do with farmer browns electrical work.,
Citydude
Elite Member
No way would I wire a 50 amp service with 12 gauge wire.
WranglerX
Super Member
Going to throw some irony in here, I don't disputing any previous remarks, but I have Hobart Handler 140, manual states 20 amp circuit ..... Ironically welder on 4 (highest out put setting) it trips 20 amp breaker..... Thought maybe faulty breaker so I swapped with another 20 amp breaker.... Same problem..... So after some investigation I looked at KVA specs in manual and it calculated out to actually be a 24.5 amp draw , not the 20 amp manual states at mid range settings..... SO... Here come's the issue some will have heart burn over..... Trucked off to local hardware store, got new 30 amp breaker and about 6 feet of 10/2 W ground, and best quality (single) 20 amp receptacle I could get..... Wires up new 30 amp breaker with 10/2 wire to 20 amp receptacle, labeled circuit dedicated to welder only.... Now the results, run bead for what ever time required for project, check the receptacle/plug combination for heat factor, and nothing to be concerned about and I also use a 12 gauge 25 foot extension cord with MIG machine again no heat issues, and the 14 gauge line cord supplied with welder does not show any signs of over heating.....
Up on investigation house was built in 1991 in back woods county of Cali where there was not much code inspection at the time and whole house is wired with 14/2 & ground (except for 240 AC circuits) ..... Yes 15 amp breakers on lighting circuits and 20 amp breakers on receptacles circuits..... House is wired pretty much to code keeping receptacle circuits and lighting circuits separate, GFIC circuit in kitchen and bathroom correct, but ignored the outlet about 2 feet away from sink in garage for washer and dried (also dedicated receptacle on 20 amp 14 gauge circuit)....
So bottom line it probably not so much on theoretical, but quality materials, installed with understand of about current carrying capacities of conductors and what NEC and common sense dictates....
My Background, 38 years in AC and DC power system in telecommunications..... And it was always a standard, "when in doubt about conductor size always go at least one size larger"....
Dale
Up on investigation house was built in 1991 in back woods county of Cali where there was not much code inspection at the time and whole house is wired with 14/2 & ground (except for 240 AC circuits) ..... Yes 15 amp breakers on lighting circuits and 20 amp breakers on receptacles circuits..... House is wired pretty much to code keeping receptacle circuits and lighting circuits separate, GFIC circuit in kitchen and bathroom correct, but ignored the outlet about 2 feet away from sink in garage for washer and dried (also dedicated receptacle on 20 amp 14 gauge circuit)....
So bottom line it probably not so much on theoretical, but quality materials, installed with understand of about current carrying capacities of conductors and what NEC and common sense dictates....
My Background, 38 years in AC and DC power system in telecommunications..... And it was always a standard, "when in doubt about conductor size always go at least one size larger"....
Dale
