Kubota M7040 three point hydraulic weirdness. Please help.

[arobint]

Bought a lightly used (800 hrs) 2013 M7040 with a front three point hitch and PTO, which has so far been an absolute pleasure to use blowing snow on our farm this winter. We're veggie farmers, so the front three point will be used to mow in conjunction with a rear cultivator for permanent beds. In any case, although the front three point seems flawless, and the remotes on the front work fine, the rear three point is behaving very weirdly: regardless of the where the position and draft control levers are, the three point never drops below about halfway down. As well, with the position lever all the way down, putting the draft lever down results in the three point going up (!) until the pump starts labouring. If you then pull the draft lever all the way to the top, the three point will drop, but only to about half way.

Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I bought the tractor used from a dealer, and they've sent me a bunch of diagnostics from the shop manual, but I feel this situation doesn't reflect any possible troubleshooting situations from normal operation. I did pay them to replace two hydraulic hose fittings that were rusty, and I am wondering if they somehow switched them, but they assure me that if that were the case, none of the hydraulics would work at all. See the video of the weird behaviour in action!

https://imgur.com/tiINifn

 

[Thunder chicken]

I wish I had some better advice to offer but these types of issues have came up on various forums, and it seems the advice is usually follow the WSM steps for adjusting the maze of rods and linkages that make up the draft sensing/control. I believe the 3pt is the first point in the hydraulic system. If you had some rusty lines back there, some of those ball links etc. Could also be seized and rusted/not moving freely. My lowering speed control was seized on my much newer 7060. Seized rusty roll pins are work of the devil.

 

[JWR]

"Normal" draft control operation is such that when the lever is all the way up the Draft Control SHOULD be out of the picture entirely. Exceptions are a long story unrelated to your circumstance. So far as I know you have no need for Draft Control and would leave it in the fully UP position. With the Draft lever all the way up, the Position control should be in charge and the rear 3 pt. should operate fully up and fully down "normally." 'Down' however is never forced by hydraulics on any current tractors and it takes gravity and/or a load of some sort to lower the arms down to the bottom. Have you stood on them to see if they will go on down ? What does the manual say ?
Of course, and I do not mean to be preaching, but you should carefully read your Owners Manual because there may be peculiarities with this model tractor (??) The front 3pt is rather rare and might have been a dealer installed option ?? I have never seen a FRONT 3pt on a Kubota and very few on other brands! They are very common in Europe however where I saw several. Mostly Deere.

Maybe something was altered when the front 3pt was installed ?


As Thunder suggests in the #2 post, the 'lowering speed control' often gets hung up on tractors and you should try that knob at both extremes and see what that does. Mine was hung up on a much smaller BX Kubota and it would not lower at all. Had to have it taken apart and lubricated/repaired.

 

[arobint]

I should have specified, I've looked all over the owners and shop manual for anything resembling this problem. In the troubleshooting guide there isn't anything. Also looked into the lowering speed control, which isn't connected (it spins freely), but the lobed control arm that it connects to does still work, and it doesn't affect anything for the better.

The front hitch is from Zuidberg, and was installed by the dealer. I would have never bought a tractor that had been used for snow removal if it weren't for the front hitch, as it is 25 grand and up (CAD$) installed, and it will be a game changer on my farm. I think Thunder Chicken may be right that it is some seized parts in the all the three point linkages, and it might take some work. . . Thanks for your input.

"Normal" draft control operation is such that when the lever is all the way up the Draft Control SHOULD be out of the picture entirely. Exceptions are a long story unrelated to your circumstance. So far as I know you have no need for Draft Control and would leave it in the fully UP position. With the Draft lever all the way up, the Position control should be in charge and the rear 3 pt. should operate fully up and fully down "normally." 'Down' however is never forced by hydraulics on any current tractors and it takes gravity and/or a load of some sort to lower the arms down to the bottom. Have you stood on them to see if they will go on down ? What does the manual say ?
Of course, and I do not mean to be preaching, but you should carefully read your Owners Manual because there may be peculiarities with this model tractor (??) The front 3pt is rather rare and might have been a dealer installed option ?? I have never seen a FRONT 3pt on a Kubota and very few on other brands! They are very common in Europe however where I saw several. Mostly Deere.

Maybe something was altered when the front 3pt was installed ?


As Thunder suggests in the #2 post, the 'lowering speed control' often gets hung up on tractors and you should try that knob at both extremes and see what that does. Mine was hung up on a much smaller BX Kubota and it would not lower at all. Had to have it taken apart and lubricated/repaired.

 

[arobint]

I wish I had some better advice to offer but these types of issues have came up on various forums, and it seems the advice is usually follow the WSM steps for adjusting the maze of rods and linkages that make up the draft sensing/control. I believe the 3pt is the first point in the hydraulic system. If you had some rusty lines back there, some of those ball links etc. Could also be seized and rusted/not moving freely. My lowering speed control was seized on my much newer 7060. Seized rusty roll pins are work of the devil.

Yes our lowering speed control spins freely, though I can still adjust it by hand. It doesn't affect this problem though. I guess I'll play with it a little more.

 

[sea2summit]

Just out of curiosity does it do the same when it has an implement? Have you tried turning some dirt to see if the draft control works?

 

[Farmer495]

I am assuming front 3pt is on the third remote with the hoses plugged in. That should not affect 3pt.

Also curious what it does with an implement on it, might need "worked" if it's been unused.

Sorry no real help, but what a nice lineup of solid tractors: m7040 4wd cab, m4700 2wd, landini 6860 4wd, landini 8860 2wd, International 274, Farmall 140, Farmall Super A

 

[Dave M7040]

As along time M040 owner you seem to have an unusual setup and one I never heard of before.

Is this configuration one done by a dealer who has done a number of similar ones or is this an odd duck?

Kubota M7040's can have one of two possible hydraulic setups labelled Type 1 and Type 2.

It is important for you to determine which system you have.

Kubota calls them Type1 and Type 2.

Type 2 tractors have the following label on the lower edge of the right door.

The Power Beyond loop is this loop of metal tubing seen on the warning label.

Type 1 tractors have a rectangular metal block. To connect a loader valve into the circuit, the regular plugs in the rectangular block have to be removed and replaced with special fittings. Think of these fittings like a power beyond sleeve fitted to a regular hydraulic valve.

If connections have been made improperly into the PB loop strange things can happen.

If you disconnect the two hydraulic lines from the REAR SCV which feed the front lift arms does the rear 3 pt hitch work better?

Dave M7040

 

[arobint]

Just out of curiosity does it do the same when it has an implement? Have you tried turning some dirt to see if the draft control works?

I havent been able to put an implement on it, it doesn't go down far enough! Im sure I could wrangle something on there, might have to try that. . .

 

[arobint]

I am assuming front 3pt is on the third remote with the hoses plugged in. That should not affect 3pt.

Also curious what it does with an implement on it, might need "worked" if it's been unused.

Sorry no real help, but what a nice lineup of solid tractors: m7040 4wd cab, m4700 2wd, landini 6860 4wd, landini 8860 2wd, International 274, Farmall 140, Farmall Super A

Yes front 3pt is on the to set of remotes.

Yeah it doesn't go low enough to attach to any implements I have though I could wrangle something on there with my other loader tractor. Thanks for the kudos on the tractors! Veggie farming benefits from lots of machines, even though none of them are worked hard like a cash cropper. Hard to justify paying new prices for a single machine. Interesting fact - all of those tractors were bought used on Kijiji (canada's Craig's list) sight unseen, over the years. Never had major issues with any of them! Im a huge fan of the landinis and their bomb-proof shuttle shift transmission. The Kubota's feel pretty light duty in comparison. I love the hydraulic reverser in the 7040, but it scares me a little that there's no backup if it decides not to work one day. . .

 

[arobint]

As along time M040 owner you seem to have an unusual setup and one I never heard of before.

Is this configuration one done by a dealer who has done a number of similar ones or is this an odd duck?

Kubota M7040's can have one of two possible hydraulic setups labelled Type 1 and Type 2.

It is important for you to determine which system you have.

Kubota calls them Type1 and Type 2.

Type 2 tractors have the following label on the lower edge of the right door.

The Power Beyond loop is this loop of metal tubing seen on the warning label.

Type 1 tractors have a rectangular metal block. To connect a loader valve into the circuit, the regular plugs in the rectangular block have to be removed and replaced with special fittings. Think of these fittings like a power beyond sleeve fitted to a regular hydraulic valve.

If connections have been made improperly into the PB loop strange things can happen.

If you disconnect the two hydraulic lines from the REAR SCV which feed the front lift arms does the rear 3 pt hitch work better?

Dave M7040

Hey thanks for the info and the pics. The Type 1 sticker is on the right door. Unplugging the front hitch doesn't affect the rear hitch behaviour at all.
So this might be interesting - the lines on that block were quite rusted when I bought the tractor, and I asked the dealer to replace the connections. It looked like this before:

https://imgur.com/xOtNEUs

And it looks like this now:

https://imgur.com/YahSsas

Considering this is the last thing that happened before I got the tractor, and I assume it worked before fine, could this have done something?

Thanks again!

 

[arobint]

As along time M040 owner you seem to have an unusual setup and one I never heard of before.

Is this configuration one done by a dealer who has done a number of similar ones or is this an odd duck?

Kubota M7040's can have one of two possible hydraulic setups labelled Type 1 and Type 2.

It is important for you to determine which system you have.

Kubota calls them Type1 and Type 2.

Type 2 tractors have the following label on the lower edge of the right door.

The Power Beyond loop is this loop of metal tubing seen on the warning label.

Type 1 tractors have a rectangular metal block. To connect a loader valve into the circuit, the regular plugs in the rectangular block have to be removed and replaced with special fittings. Think of these fittings like a power beyond sleeve fitted to a regular hydraulic valve.

If connections have been made improperly into the PB loop strange things can happen.

If you disconnect the two hydraulic lines from the REAR SCV which feed the front lift arms does the rear 3 pt hitch work better?

Dave M7040

As for the setup, this front hitch (zuidberg) is pretty common on bigger snow tractors up here, and the local dealers do a fair number of them. However, this is the first and only 7040 I've ever seen with a front hitch. The dealer did install it on the tractor new. Usually these are on M5, M6 or M7 tractors. Zuidberg has specific packages for all these Kubota models though, and they work closely with the dealers to install them. I should maybe ask Frontlink (who sells and supports the zuidberg kit), they've been very helpful in the past.

 

[CobyRupert]

The lift arms never drop below half way down, but what about upper rockshaft arms? Where are they? That is, can lift arm linkage to rockshaft need adjustment.
As others note, there is no down force to lower 3 point hitch, try standing on it or some weight.

 

[arobint]

The lift arms never drop below half way down, but what about upper rockshaft arms? Where are they? That is, can lift arm linkage to rockshaft need adjustment.
As others note, there is no down force to lower 3 point hitch, try standing on it or some weight.

I was playing with the position feedback rod, which does change the upper resting point of the lift arms, but doesn't change how low it can go. When I disconnect the position feedback rod completely, I can operate the lift arms normally by manually rotating the lobe that the position feedback rod connects to.

 

[arobint]

"Normal" draft control operation is such that when the lever is all the way up the Draft Control SHOULD be out of the picture entirely. Exceptions are a long story unrelated to your circumstance. So far as I know you have no need for Draft Control and would leave it in the fully UP position. With the Draft lever all the way up, the Position control should be in charge and the rear 3 pt. should operate fully up and fully down "normally." 'Down' however is never forced by hydraulics on any current tractors and it takes gravity and/or a load of some sort to lower the arms down to the bottom. Have you stood on them to see if they will go on down ? What does the manual say ?
Of course, and I do not mean to be preaching, but you should carefully read your Owners Manual because there may be peculiarities with this model tractor (??) The front 3pt is rather rare and might have been a dealer installed option ?? I have never seen a FRONT 3pt on a Kubota and very few on other brands! They are very common in Europe however where I saw several. Mostly Deere.

Maybe something was altered when the front 3pt was installed ?


As Thunder suggests in the #2 post, the 'lowering speed control' often gets hung up on tractors and you should try that knob at both extremes and see what that does. Mine was hung up on a much smaller BX Kubota and it would not lower at all. Had to have it taken apart and lubricated/repaired.

Standing on the arms doesn't do anything. When the position feedback rod is disconnected, the arms drop all the way down immediately, but adjusting the position feedback rod doesn't do much other than slightly alter the topmost resting point of the hitch. There are lots of kubotas with front hitches around here, popular for snow removal, but they are usually big (>125hp) M6s or M7s. This is the first time I've seen one on a M7040, which is why I snapped it up. The lowering speed control is not connected, but you can manually turn the lobe that's at the other end of the control rod, and it also doesn't do much. Changes the speed that the hitch moves is all.

 

[Farmer495]

Kijiji is good. Rare to see a X860 2wd, I only ever saw a couple, a 5860 2wd in standard blue and a 6860 2wd, in optional red paint, Dealer had it on the lot for 3 years new! They are a solid tractor, dealer support hasn't been constant here for them.

 

[arobint]

Kijiji is good. Rare to see a X860 2wd, I only ever saw a couple, a 5860 2wd in standard blue and a 6860 2wd, in optional red paint, Dealer had it on the lot for 3 years new! They are a solid tractor, dealer support hasn't been constant here for them.

Yes for a while it was pretty easy to get them from retiring tobacco and ginseng growers, which is ideal - mine came with creeper gears and 12.4 rear wheels, which is great for veggies. Both my landinis originated from Halnor equipment in southern Ontario. They specialize in high crop, narrow wheel tractors. Now that veggie farming is "in style" these tractors are far harder to find and much more expensive. I figure I could sell either landini for at least 25% more than I paid. . . the 8860 was $7k with 2500hrs! Im a big fan of 2wd anywhere you can get away with it.

 

[Farmer495]

That's a cheap 8860. Almost all them here were 4wd and on fat tires of course. I operated a brand new 5860 4wd years ago and liked it.

I've noticed decent, lower hour tractors were always cheaper on Ontario compared here in the east.

Were some IH 274's around here back in the day, always liked those even though I have zero use for one.

 

[Dave M7040]

Hey thanks for the info and the pics. The Type 1 sticker is on the right door. Unplugging the front hitch doesn't affect the rear hitch behaviour at all.
So this might be interesting - the lines on that block were quite rusted when I bought the tractor, and I asked the dealer to replace the connections. It looked like this before:

https://imgur.com/xOtNEUs

And it looks like this now:

https://imgur.com/YahSsas

Considering this is the last thing that happened before I got the tractor, and I assume it worked before fine, could this have done something?

Thanks again!

If this is a Kubota Type 1, I do not see the rectangular metal block with the two special fittings. Please double check and post a photo of the door sticker.

Where are the two hoses going to?

Dave M7040

 

[eddieirvine]

just a thought i had on my L3940 there is a speed control for the three point, a knob below the front of the seat, it lets you change the speed of lowering and raising implements. Also if it was never used on mine it took a while to start working correct. let me know if you have this most Kubota tractors do.