Grand jury indictment for shop removing diesel truck emissions devices.

[Username Taken]

And what cars they were!! Big, huge, giant Land Yachts! WIth about as much technology as generic motors could muster -- (None). 10 miles to the gallon...... Down hill.

Most of them in the 60's yes .

One exception was Buick Olds and Pontiacs intermediates in 60-63 with the 215 aluminum (324lb) V8 . those little buggers could easily get 20 + MPG hi way and was a versatile enough production block to be run in the Indy 500 in 1962 with Dan Gurney running at over 147 mph.

Then again what did GM in their ultimate wisdom do with that efficient little gem? they sold it to Range Rover- then tried to buy it back, with no success. 39 years of continuous production.

ps. Good Indy race yesterday when Helio Castroneves won for his fourth time. Indy is going to hybrid tech of some sort in a couple years using "Larger" 2.4 liter engines.?

Sorry for the derail, and back to the thread

Which hi-lites one of the most frustrating things about generic motors. They had some brilliant ideas. Brilliant.

But they wouldn't follow through on squat. The Corvair (the first shake down of its kind by Nad-Er), the Vega, even the Saturn.

But they just wouldn't follow thru on anything.

And when one of the other came up with a good idea, they'd do everything they could to kill it.

NASCAR was sold to the Public as being a proving ground for new and improved ideas but when Ford wanted to race its Over Head Cam engine, generic motors threw a fit and got it banned. And Chrysler's Hemi. They did the same thing. Got them banned

Today, 60 years later, virtually ever car made has Over Head Cams and Hemi (or Pentroof) Combustion Chambers. Except most of generic motors, of course. And they're something of a joke. Won't be surprised when they go belly-up again. I mean, a pushrod motor in a 'sports' car? That's a knee-slapper there.

Well, there was the Northstar. Quite possibly the worst engine ever designed. Try to get the gm-only heli-coils for their heads

IMO, gm was the single biggest drag on American Automobile development. By far. I laughed until I almost pee'd myself when they announced their bankruptcy. Couldn't happen to a nicer company.

sorry for venting

No I'm not

 

[Hay Dude]

A friend had a deleted 2008 6.4L Powerstroke for a while. Put it back to stock and traded. He used the mildest Spartan tow tune said to maintain all factory limits yet add 125 HP.

Empty MPG driving like an old man went from 14 to 16. With a 20' toy hauler at 62 MPH it got 12 MPG, 9 MPG pre-delete. At 70 MPH it would get 9 MPG vs 7.5.

My observation the past 20 years is that less than half the people who think they know what their MPG is know how to divide miles by gallons of fuel used. The fool computer on the Powerstroke lied like a politician planning on raising taxes, both before and after. Would claim 20 MPG for 200 miles on 14 gallons.

VW cheated the EPA by greatly limiting acceleration and engine load when a dyno was detected. It let them get away without DPF or SCR. It was a car that drove so bad they knew full well no one would accept.

With nothing else to do going to dirtbike races I estimated one gallon of diesel was used to burn out the DPF every 250 miles. More often when we had the toy hauler. Estimated using the unreliable fool MPG computer and hand calculated MPG at truck stop. Seems foolish to me not to wrap the DPF in insulation to keep it hot for self-cleaning, "But who am I to question Ford's engineers?" Maybe it has to be relatively cold to catch the soot?

My ‘20 Ram DPF appears to be wrapped in some sort of foil insulation.

 

[Williy]

I have a 2003 RAM 2500 DIESEL and driving 55
can get 25 to 30 mpg depending on the wind.
Pulling a fifth wheel camper running 75 mph then
in CO a hundred mile stretch going from 20 to 45 mph
100 miles of this up and down winding road and I seen
that an old couple got arrested for driving 20 in a 45
zone blocking traffic. I don't remember the mileage but we averaged 15 mpg. Though that was pretty good for pulling a camper and 200 miles of up and down speeds and driving around for 30 days sight
seeing.

willy

 

[paulfun9]

A friend had a deleted 2008 6.4L Powerstroke for a while. Put it back to stock and traded. He used the mildest Spartan tow tune said to maintain all factory limits yet add 125 HP.

Empty MPG driving like an old man went from 14 to 16. With a 20' toy hauler at 62 MPH it got 12 MPG, 9 MPG pre-delete. At 70 MPH it would get 9 MPG vs 7.5.

My observation the past 20 years is that less than half the people who think they know what their MPG is know how to divide miles by gallons of fuel used. The fool computer on the Powerstroke lied like a politician planning on raising taxes, both before and after. Would claim 20 MPG for 200 miles on 14 gallons.

VW cheated the EPA by greatly limiting acceleration and engine load when a dyno was detected. It let them get away without DPF or SCR. It was a car that drove so bad they knew full well no one would accept.

With nothing else to do going to dirtbike races I estimated one gallon of diesel was used to burn out the DPF every 250 miles. More often when we had the toy hauler. Estimated using the unreliable fool MPG computer and hand calculated MPG at truck stop. Seems foolish to me not to wrap the DPF in insulation to keep it hot for self-cleaning, "But who am I to question Ford's engineers?" Maybe it has to be relatively cold to catch the

Are you saying that we don’t know how to figure out MPG?
That’s a big leap especially considering that many of us use our trucks for work and need to know our actual costs for many reasons.

I do however know there are some who haven’t a clue, also know there were some devices that didn’t do crap but promised the world.
We used to laugh when guys would buy the cheapest or most advertised things install them and then run around saying they have this much HP and this much torque and get this many MPG.

 

[dodge man]

I also question people who say the get 20 plus mpg after deletes. I owned a early 2004 Dodge with a Cummins. Reading the Cummins forums it was suppose to be one of the best for mileage. It had an Edge chip on it. There was nothing to delete, it had no EGR, no catalytic converter, no DPF, no DEF. I don’t think I ever got 20 mpg, maybe 18 mpg a few times. Towing mileages was solid, like 16 mpg towing a car trailer with a 4000 pound car on it but I also drove slower when towing.

I do see people getting a couple mpg better after deletes, but I’m still not a fan of it.

 

[sd455dan]

Which hi-lites one of the most frustrating things about generic motors. They had some brilliant ideas. Brilliant.

But they wouldn't follow through on squat. The Corvair (the first shake down of its kind by Nad-Er), the Vega, even the Saturn.

But they just wouldn't follow thru on anything.

And when one of the other came up with a good idea, they'd do everything they could to kill it.

NASCAR was sold to the Public as being a proving ground for new and improved ideas but when Ford wanted to race its Over Head Cam engine, generic motors threw a fit and got it banned. And Chrysler's Hemi. They did the same thing. Got them banned

Today, 60 years later, virtually ever car made has Over Head Cams and Hemi (or Pentroof) Combustion Chambers. Except most of generic motors, of course. And they're something of a joke. Won't be surprised when they go belly-up again. I mean, a pushrod motor in a 'sports' car? That's a knee-slapper there.

Well, there was the Northstar. Quite possibly the worst engine ever designed. Try to get the gm-only heli-coils for their heads

IMO, gm was the single biggest drag on American Automobile development. By far. I laughed until I almost pee'd myself when they announced their bankruptcy. Couldn't happen to a nicer company.

sorry for venting

No I'm not

Well not to rain on a parade, but I like OHV cam in block engines- especially for muscle cars or trucks
Ford even went back to this design in their "new" 7.3 liter truck engine.
Also in the early 1960's I cannot blame GM for toning things down- they were about to be sued by the Federal Gobomint for gaining to much of the US auto sales market share- which brought the under 400 cube in intermidiates and pulled all GM vehicles from racing. so their popularity and racing success led to almost an anti trust breakup..
Torque is measured while horsepower is calculated.
imo most OHC engines have less low end torque in general but top end HP they shine.

and mileage - If 14.7 to 1 had not been pretty much standardized even shade tree mechanics can get some decent mileage.

here's a 130k miles 1999 Vette with a modified fuel map and tune breaking 40 MPG on the hiway

I also question people who say the get 20 plus mpg after deletes. I owned a early 2004 Dodge with a Cummins. Reading the Cummins forums it was suppose to be one of the best for mileage. It had an Edge chip on it. There was nothing to delete, it had no EGR, no catalytic converter, no DPF, no DEF. I don’t think I ever got 20 mpg, maybe 18 mpg a few times. Towing mileages was solid, like 16 mpg towing a car trailer with a 4000 pound car on it but I also drove slower when towing.

I do see people getting a couple mpg better after deletes, but I’m still not a fan of it.

Yeah my 03 3500 SRW has no emissions junk dead stock even the tires are the same model and size Michelins that it was delivered with, and the best it has ever done for a full tank hand calced is 24.4mpg that is 2 people empty truck all hi way under 70 miles an hour- drops fast going faster.

LIE O meter will display over 28 MPG when the truck is getting 24.

Willy's truck must be a freak and or 2 wheel drive + driving slower. if he is using the MPG readout and not hand calculated then the mileage is likely off bit.
Nephews 2012 used to gain over a quart of diesel in the engine oil by change time. that emissions garbage had to hurt MPG

 

[dodge man]

My Ram with the Cummins had 4.10 gears which didn‘t help the fuel mileage. The Edge chip on mine must have screwed up the overhead display because is was way off, roughly 8 mpg to high.

For some reason I got to reading about hypermilling a while ago. It’s about getting extremely high fuel mileage out of a vehicle. People getting crazy high mileage, something like 60 mpg out of a 3/4 ton Dodge with a Cummins. An example of what’s needed to do this is going shopping at 3:00 am just so there is no traffic and you don’t hit the brakes until you stop and park.

 

[plowhog]

My Beechcraft Debonair cruises at ~180 mph, burning 12 gallons per hour.
That's 15 mpg.

But the EPA huggers still hate you since you're burning leaded gas ....

btw your Debonair's performance is similar to a plane I owned long ago-- a Cessna 182RG. It cruised at 155 kts and burned 13gph. I once flew it to the Arctic Circle and back.

 

[fried1765]

But the EPA huggers still hate you since you're burning leaded gas ....

btw your Debonair's performance is similar to a plane I owned long ago-- a Cessna 182RG. It cruised at 155 kts and burned 13gph. I once flew it to the Arctic Circle and back.

I burn 100LL in my small engines, because in a "hugger" state, non ethanol gas cannot be sold at a gas station.

 

[deserteagle71]

I also question people who say the get 20 plus mpg after deletes. I owned a early 2004 Dodge with a Cummins. Reading the Cummins forums it was suppose to be one of the best for mileage. It had an Edge chip on it. There was nothing to delete, it had no EGR, no catalytic converter, no DPF, no DEF. I don’t think I ever got 20 mpg, maybe 18 mpg a few times. Towing mileages was solid, like 16 mpg towing a car trailer with a 4000 pound car on it but I also drove slower when towing.

I do see people getting a couple mpg better after deletes, but I’m still not a fan of it.

Same here. I think it is like so many people, looking at the truck's mileage display and taking it for gospel truth. I've yet to own a vehicle in which the vehicle mileage display was correct - always optimistic, sometimes very much so.

I've owned a couple Dodge/Cummins of that vintage also and my experience exactly matches yours. Hand-calculated mileage when empty was ~ 18 mpg. I still own a Dodge/5.9 Cummins dually with the old NV5600 manual tranny (and an Edge tuner) that spends most of its life with a Bigfoot cabover camper on the back and usually my Jeep is on a trailer hooked to it. That combination nets me 14-15 mpg. So much nicer than my Ford with the big block gas engine that gets only 12 mpg empty (not towing or hauling anything). Add that to the fact that diesel is 10 - 15 cents a gallon cheaper than regular around here and driving the dually becomes a no-brainer.