Electrical / romex mess

[splotch]

We have a light on a pole in our driveway. Its in a center circle bordered by pavers. I want to replace the light with a water feature.

I turned power off, removed the light and pole, and found two romex lines. One was still hot (don't ask!) They are about 2 feet below current grade, and about 3 feet below what the new grade will be.

I need to move these lines as the new water feature would be sitting right on top of them. I wish they were long enough to get to an electrical box on the edge of the circle, but they are not nearly long enough. And I still need power out there for the new pump.

I know you are not supposed to put romex in conduit. Nor splice wires and have electric junction boxes underground. But I'm stumped on what else to do?

Any ideas?
View attachment 701068

I am not an electrician and with that said. Isn’t the reason for Romex in conduit because of the heat generating in the enclosed space? Couldn’t you just us a over sized piece of conduit? Also that is direct burial cable and if I was going under a gravel or concrete driveway I would definitely put it in conduit. That way it could easily be replaced. And again I am not an electrician just an average DIY guy.

 

[splotch]

I am not an electrician and with that said. Isn’t the reason for Romex in conduit because of the heat generating in the enclosed space? Couldn’t you just us a over sized piece of conduit? Also that is direct burial cable and if I was going under a gravel or concrete driveway I would definitely put it in conduit. That way it could easily be replaced. And again I am not an electrician just an average DIY guy.

Also would like to add I have seen where someone spliced a cable in the ground and over the years the ground movement separated the cables.

 

[LibraryMark]

If it truly is Romex and it's in the ground, you should abandon it and run new - real UF (underground feeder) or THWN in conduit.

 

[plowhog]

I have mistakenly referred to it as romex. Partly because at first I was not sure, then due to my ignorance that romex and UF are very different things. Apologies for any confusion. It is UF cable.

Replacing it back to the underside of the house would involve breaking up my paver entry, custom paver patio, and custom masonry decorative rock walls. Probably a $50,000 project to change out a UF cable. Not a consideration.

This all started when I tore up my driveway to replace it. Re-doing the center circle is part of that project. Since the UF cable might become a future issue, I will add a new electrical conduit under the new driveway out to a side planter. That way, if I ever had to abandon the UF cable I could get power out there with less difficulty and without breaking hardscape.

Thank you all for contributing ...

 

[kentrodngun]

Looking at the picture, it's definitely UF and not regular romex.

 

[jonsstihl]

just getting set up to add a spa and my electrician mentioned that uf cable should be direct buried and that putting it in conduit is actually more harmful. something about heat build up and possible condensation problems but I'm no electrician. I know just enough to be dangerous.

my plan is to run conduit just at the transitions where the cable comes out of the ground and into the house.

this is of course North of the border where it gets cold and our frost line is sometimes 4-6 ft deep depending on how much snow is on the ground before the heavy freezing gets here.

 

[mike02557a]

We have a light on a pole in our driveway. Its in a center circle bordered by pavers. I want to replace the light with a water feature.

I turned power off, removed the light and pole, and found two romex lines. One was still hot (don't ask!) They are about 2 feet below current grade, and about 3 feet below what the new grade will be.

I need to move these lines as the new water feature would be sitting right on top of them. I wish they were long enough to get to an electrical box on the edge of the circle, but they are not nearly long enough. And I still need power out there for the new pump.

I know you are not supposed to put romex in conduit. Nor splice wires and have electric junction boxes underground. But I'm stumped on what else to do?

Any ideas?
View attachment 701068

First, it does not look like what you have is Underground Feeder wire.
Next, I ran hundreds of feet of UF cable inside conduit with no problem in my barn. I ran 300' of 12-2 UF cable inside of 2in black plastic pipe with no problem....it's been 25 years....works good.

So...if the problem is that you have regular 14-2 or 12-2 indoor electrical cable...I would replace it.

Depending how long the run is, try to give it a yank and see if it will move at all.
If it does.....solder some UF feeder cable to the end of the existing cable and run a new line.

If it doesn't, look at digging up the cable at the edge of your existing circle.....and see if it pulls when you dig it up...
If so, same as above...replace with UF cable the underground section under the circle....and dig a trench to do the rest.

Sometimes the easiest thing is to call "Dig-safe" and have them sniff the exsisting line and other utility lines and dig a whole new trench and run UF cable inside of 2inch well plastic pipe.

The probem you have will get worse as you are planning to put a water fountain above suspect pipe...water wicking into the indoor wiring that is buried can short out the wire....

 

[mike02557a]

just getting set up to add a spa and my electrician mentioned that uf cable should be direct buried and that putting it in conduit is actually more harmful. something about heat build up and possible condensation problems but I'm no electrician. I know just enough to be dangerous.

my plan is to run conduit just at the transitions where the cable comes out of the ground and into the house.

this is of course North of the border where it gets cold and our frost line is sometimes 4-6 ft deep depending on how much snow is on the ground before the heavy freezing gets here.

Condensation almost never happens in a buried pipe that has UF cable in it as long as it is sealed at both ends.....I'm talking from real experience. Also, the conduit provides extra protection from rocks and varmits..

 

[dustinfox]

I don't know about your local codes but yes you can (and should) run your romex through PVC conduit. Check on the size but I would probably use 2 inch PVC for a single romex cable. What you are NOT supposed to do is run romex in steel conduit that is used to run residential or commercial building circuits.

 

[clewis]

Probably best to call your local electrical contractor, that wire does not even look like direct bury Romex.

If he can read the markings on the wire, if it says "NMW" it's direct burial rated (Canada) but in the US it will be called UF instead. Depending on the supplier, it might have *both* labels on them. Standard household romex (NMD and NM) is not burial rated.

There are splicing kits rated for direct burial. But for peace of mind, I'd suggest getting an electrician to install them because they have to be installed precisely right to work, and if you're not already familiar with them, the instructions alone may be inadequate. If it isn't NMW/UF cable, an electrician may refuse to do it due to code.