Post Emissions tractors

[VroomVroom]

I know this could turn into a lengthy post. But I’m really care more for a short answer. What are the issues with tractors made after the post emissions technology? Are they more troublesome? More complicated for the backyard mechanic? Lost their simplicity?

 

[ptsg]

I know this could turn into a lengthy post. But I’m really care more for a short answer. What are the issues with tractors made after the post emissions technology? Are they more troublesome? More complicated for the backyard mechanic? Lost their simplicity?

"What are the issues with tractors made after the post emissions technology?"

A big part of the emissions problems on tractors are actually caused by the operator. Either by not understanding exactly how these things work and how the tractor needs to be run to keep the DPF happy or by the dealers not teaching the owners how to properly run the tractors with DPF. Another big thing I suspect it happens a lot, is that people buy tractors too big for their application and can't simply put enough load on the engine to keep the DPF happy, however, this could be solved by going down the road every once in a while in the highest gear and RPM.

"Are they more troublesome?"

Maybe a little bit more, but mostly because these tractors do have a lot more electronics going on. And rodents are around, they can make a mess on the wiring.

"More complicated for the backyard mechanic? Lost their simplicity?"

Most are due to all the electronics going on, and specially ECUs that only the dealers can access those for diagnostics. So far I believe Branson is still the easiest tractor to work on as they retain the mechanical function as much as they can. The engine is still fully mechanical and so is the rest of the tractor. They only get the data logger for the DPF but that's pretty much a standalone unit and won't leave the tractor dead if something happens to it.

 

[VroomVroom]

So basically it’s the extra electronics that people steer away from? What do the computer do? Run tractor a certain way once in a while? Can you use the tractor during this? I’d have to say, most times my tractor is only ramped up to 1200-1800 rpm doing very little but moving around. But of a load the other day shoveling dirt. Backhoe is a very light load too…my poor ole engine probably clogged…

 

[ptsg]

The computer runs the entire engine as most manufacturers went with Common Rail engines. The other issue with this is that they tied the Emissions on the same computer. If a sensor or something electronic takes a dump, there you go, stuck with a tractor with no way to diagnostic or repair it, unless you start throwing parts at it till it gets fixed eventually, this a very expensive approach by the way.

Yes, you can use the tractor while it's doing the regen process. It's actually better as it will load the engine more and most likely do the process faster.

Keep in mind that there two types of emissions equipment, one is a DPF and the other is a DOC. The DPF will fill up to a point and then ask for the regen process. The DOC is constantly regening/burning once it gets to the temperature it needs, with this system is very important to run high RPM, otherwise it will clog and cause issues. The DPF is a bit more forgiving as the regen process can be forced as needed, while the DOC once it clogs, it's really clogs and has to be opened to be cleaned.

Mahindra likes to claim the their tractors don't have regen which is kind of false information because they use a DOC that is basically constantly regening or burning the particles.

I too run more or less on the same RPM range. I hate hearing the engines screaming just to move around the yard or do loader work. I'm glad I could buy a brand new tractor without all of these non sense. From 2021, it's now required to have emissions from tractors above 25 HP in Europe, it's called the Stage V and lead to all manufacturers having to relaunch some models to be Stage V ready and to discontinue a lot of other models.

 

[VroomVroom]

Yes I couldn’t understand it. I bought the 2816. That changed to a 3016 but still had the same hp and engine. But after that it seemed like they were dropping the hp a little. Why was that?

 

[Tx Jim]

Fuel needs to be kept cleaner on common-rail fuel systems than older diesel fuel systems. My neighbor's Tier lV tractor fuel system got water in the fuel tank causing fungus(algae) to grow. This caused tractor to receive new common-rail pump & injectors. On older style diesel fuel systems just drain the water or if more severe clean tank, add biocide to fuel in fuel tank,change fuel filters a few time & use tractor

 

[Jstpssng]

Fuel needs to be kept cleaner on common-rail fuel systems than older diesel fuel systems. My neighbor's Tier lV tractor fuel system got water in the fuel tank causing fungus(algae) to grow. This caused tractor to receive new common-rail pump & injectors. On older style diesel fuel systems just drain the water or if more severe clean tank, add biocide to fuel in fuel tank,change fuel filters a few time & use tractor

That's the problem which I'm having. My tractor sets outside, although I do keep a tarp over the engine compartment. For the second time in 3 years I'm starting to have fuel problems. I do add biocide but hadn't been faithful about it for a while, as I kept forgetting to pick up a bottle while I was in town.

 

[Keweenaw County Yooper]

"What are the issues with tractors made after the post emissions technology?"

A big part of the emissions problems on tractors are actually caused by the operator. Either by not understanding exactly how these things work and how the tractor needs to be run to keep the DPF happy or by the dealers not teaching the owners how to properly run the tractors with DPF. Another big thing I suspect it happens a lot, is that people buy tractors too big for their application and can't simply put enough load on the engine to keep the DPF happy, however, this could be solved by going down the road every once in a while in the highest gear and RPM.

"Are they more troublesome?"

Maybe a little bit more, but mostly because these tractors do have a lot more electronics going on. And rodents are around, they can make a mess on the wiring.

"More complicated for the backyard mechanic? Lost their simplicity?"

Most are due to all the electronics going on, and specially ECUs that only the dealers can access those for diagnostics. So far I believe Branson is still the easiest tractor to work on as they retain the mechanical function as much as they can. The engine is still fully mechanical and so is the rest of the tractor. They only get the data logger for the DPF but that's pretty much a standalone unit and won't leave the tractor dead if something happens to it.

TYM which owns Branson uses the same Kukje engines as Branson does.

 

[Diesel Trout]

It’s also not a bad idea to run some additive in your ULSD.
Stanadyne, Power Service, etc.
Your injectors will live a lot longer and it may help prevent some fuel issues as well. The process of removing the sulfur“dries out” the
fuel. They’re supposed to use a
lubricity additive to replace it, but
I doubt that always happens…
The extremely high pressures in a
common rail system ( 10’s of thousands of psi ) really amplify the need for lubricity.

 

[ptsg]

TYM which owns Branson uses the same Kukje engines as Branson does.

Yes, although Kukje still works pretty much as stand alone company making Branson tractors and some bigger JD 6 series tractors as well.

 

[5030]

Don't really matter what brand you own, if it's T4 acceptable, it will be ECM (electronic controlled engine with common rail injection) and some sort of post combustion device to lower emissions and they are all much more complex than Pre 4 mechainical injection. Been my experience that the more complex an engine becomes, the more chance for failure down the road.

Why I keep and maintain my pre 4 tractors and will never buy a post 4-5 unit. (Yes), 5 is coming down next.

 

[ptsg]

Don't really matter what brand you own, if it's T4 acceptable, it will be ECM (electronic controlled engine with common rail injection) and some sort of post combustion device to lower emissions and they are all much more complex than Pre 4 mechainical injection. Been my experience that the more complex an engine becomes, the more chance for failure down the road.

Why I keep and maintain my pre 4 tractors and will never buy a post 4-5 unit. (Yes), 5 is coming down next.

Wrong as usual. Not everyone uses Common rail engines. Kukje/Branson still uses a fully mechanical engine with a fully mechanical injection VE pump. The only wire it gets to run is the one for the fuel shutoff solenoid. TYM is the same way on the models with the Kukje engine.

 

[K5lwq]

Don't really matter what brand you own, if it's T4 acceptable, it will be ECM (electronic controlled engine with common rail injection)

This is simple not correct. The Branson does not have a ECM and has direct injection but still is T4 compliant.

 

[5030]

This is simple not correct. The Branson does not have a ECM and has direct injection but still is T4 compliant.

Care to provide a link for your claim? I don't buy it. Maybe under 25 horsepower as with all units so far but over 25, don't think so, like I said, Substantiate your comment with a link or hard facts, not your opinion. They may not have an ECM but I don't believe they don't have some sort of post treatment of exhaust gasses.

Having said that I don't know squat about a Branson, no dealers anywhere around here anyway.

 

[5030]

Wrong as usual. Not everyone uses Common rail engines. Kukje/Branson still uses a fully mechanical engine with a fully mechanical injection VE pump. The only wire it gets to run is the one for the fuel shutoff solenoid. TYM is the same way on the models with the Kukje engine.

Gee, bet they still have some sort of post treatment of exhaust gas here in the states (over 25 horsepower). They have to, to sell them here. That is an EPA mandate.

Don't know how it plays in Portugal and candidly don't care one bit.

 

[ptsg]

Gee, bet they still have some sort of post treatment of exhaust gas here in the states (over 25 horsepower). They have to, to sell them here. That is an EPA mandate.

Don't know how it plays in Portugal and candidly don't care one bit.

Literally read the posts above. Much easier than throwing out non sense as you usually do.

No one said they didn't use some sort of emissions controls. They have to. You claimed that all Tier 4 tractors had an ECM and were Common rail engines, which is simply not true, as I and K5 explained to you.

Yes they use DPF now (21 models) and used a DOC before, however this is a standalone unit that is not tied with the engine by any means. It's simply a data logger to keep track of the state of the DPF and decided when to regen or not. So if it will magically fall off, you have a perfectly good running tractors without all the emission stuff on it.

 

[VroomVroom]

No way to take that stuff off? What about those rotor Jeep’s. They have the emissions control too?

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

It is not that you NEED an ecu for emissions, it is feature creep and marketing's grubby hands.

"We have this computer thing a majigiggy... can we use it to get better fuel usage? Yeah? That will make it more sellable. .... Can we make it remind you when to change the oil and filters? Yeah, that's great, I have a customer thats been asking for it for years!. .... hmm what about detecting too much water in the diesel before it fouls things up? WE can do that TOO!!! I LOVE YOU GUYS!a I can sell this for a bucket load more than that old dumb model!"

 

[K5lwq]

I am in the US and own one that was sold new here to me. 48HP and no ECM, has direct injection and runs great with or without the DOC.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I will just post a link to my own thread on what I did to my "post Tier 4" tractor to remove the DPF/DOC filter:

Exhaust Mod on my 3725

And I can absolutely state it as FACT that the Branson will run without any issues at all if you take the exhaust filter and data logger off.

Mine's been running that way for over 2 years now. Not. One. Single. Problem. since taking it off.

And mine's a 37 hp.

Care to provide a link for your claim? I don't buy it. Maybe under 25 horsepower as with all units so far but over 25, don't think so, like I said, Substantiate your comment with a link or hard facts, not your opinion. They may not have an ECM but I don't believe they don't have some sort of post treatment of exhaust gasses.

Having said that I don't know squat about a Branson, no dealers anywhere around here anyway.

I know you're just itchin' to argue over things, but in this particular case, you are dead wrong.

And we know you don't know squat about Branson's. It doesn't seem to stop you from making wrong statements though.

"Frequently Wrong, Never In Doubt".

Don't you go changin' buddy.