How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ?

   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #21  
Did you ask the dealer what they put in the front axle?
Then ask for a sample of what he put in your front axel.
Maybe he didn't even change it???

willy
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #22  
When you rebuild something (engine, car/truck, m'cycle, trans, etc) the first oil change is likely to show the most detritus/swarf, plug a filter in the fewest miles/hours, etc. By 400 hrs I'd have changed hydro and engine oil & filters a few times. If this is the first time the front axle has been drained I wouldn't be surprised to see it dark. I suggest checking color again 50 hrs or so after a fluid change.
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #23  
When I changed the oil and tranny fluid the filters
were clean after 50 hours and the oil in the front
axel looked OK but changed it anyway
In fact the tranny fluid looked new I never change
the tranny fluid in my truck unless it starts changing color. Also I don't believe you really need to change the axel juice as years ago we never change axel fluid unless the gears. bearings were replaced. I replaced the axel fluids in my truck with approx 115,000 miles and
used a magnet but found nothing!
Dealership says you should change every 20,000 miles just more money for them

willy
 
Last edited:
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ?
  • Thread Starter
#24  
Did you ask the dealer what they put in the front axle?
Then ask for a sample of what he put in your front axel.
Maybe he didn't even change it???

willy
Well I'm assuming it was probably Super UDT2 as that's what Kubota recommends. If it wasn't, then that could be some of the confusion on color for sure!!
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ?
  • Thread Starter
#25  
When you rebuild something (engine, car/truck, m'cycle, trans, etc) the first oil change is likely to show the most detritus/swarf, plug a filter in the fewest miles/hours, etc. By 400 hrs I'd have changed hydro and engine oil & filters a few times. If this is the first time the front axle has been drained I wouldn't be surprised to see it dark. I suggest checking color again 50 hrs or so after a fluid change.
Good recommendation! I was thinking 200 for the next change, but it may very well need more before that!
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ?
  • Thread Starter
#26  
There are several oil analysis labs, though Blackstone is the one most commonly known.
I had them do oil analysis on my marine transmissions at every 100 hours, since I suspected a problem was coming.
I headed it off, and replaced transmissions, rather than risk being stranded in the Bahamas.
Pro-active!!!
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #27  
NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING!

It makes an "ASS" out of "U" and "ME"

willy
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #28  
Well I'm assuming it was probably Super UDT2 as that's what Kubota recommends. If it wasn't, then that could be some of the confusion on color for sure!!
My dealer uses 80-90 for the front axle, when I bought my B it came with 80-90 from the dealer. My L3240 I bought used and was maintained by a different dealer, it had 80-90 in it when I got it so it is a possibility yours doesn't have SUDT2, should be able to find out from your selling dealer if you bought new.
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #30  
On my L5740, I thought an excellent name brand synthetic gear oil would be better for my front end, so at first change I went to 75W-140. About 200 hours later the first wheel bearing failure - and 50 hours after that the other side. My L6060 is now nearing 800 hours using only SUDT-2. One caveat - the L5740 probably did a lot more loader work as I now have a SVL-75-2 that is my real loader toy. But your axle oil really does not look out of line for first change from the unfiltered front.
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #31  
Kioti says regular gear oil (sorry, don't have the weight spec in my head) OR hydralic fluid: not sure what it says in my Kubota manual. I suspect that regular gear oil was in the front axle. I see no way that SUDT could turn to that color w/o having some signficant damage, likely seals (what else could impart black/dark like that?), but that would seem to result in an external sign of leaks. Without knowing what the dealer used one cannot say for sure.

I drained the fluid out of my B7800's front axle (trying to remember whether I'd ever done so [was good about everything else]) and I am sure that it didn't look dark like that. And mind you, we're talking a LOT more hours; and, I doubt that anyone has worked a tractor harder than I've worked this B7800 (I won't go into describing what I've done because people will start sniping away that it's "abuse").

If you haven't sent a sample to the lab yet I'd recommend making a note that you're not sure what fluid that is (probably OK to state that it could be either one or the other).
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #32  
Same use as me, and my bearings in the front end failed twice in 4000 hours. Now I run a 1500 lb ballast box and no more dirty oil or failures.
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #33  
A couple caveats to what other have posted. First, as @BeezFun mentioned, the use of Blackstone Labs was the first thing I thought about when you mentioned metal in the front axle fluid. I have used those guys for testing the Tranny fluid, Diff Fluid and the Engine oil in my Denali as well as the oil in Grand National. They are a reputable company, very professional and pride themselves in their work.
Second, @Williy brought up a point that also came to mind. Are you the first owner of this tractor? How many hours were on it when you bought it? Could someone have put something like “Royal Purple” gear oil in the front end, which would be obvious reasoning behind the color. However, this would not explain the metal shavings. After it settles out, if it looks more like a metal milkshake than gear oil that has metal shavings in the bottom of the container, then I would be worried. If it were the latter of the two and this was the first time the oil had been changed, it wouldn’t be a complete shock because of the initial break in of the gears. Add in the fact that you have not been using a ballast box and that only adds more shavings and stress to the front end.

The two big questions I have for you is are your rear tires loaded (Rim Guard or otherwise) and does your front axle have a vent/breather tube (either somewhere at its highest point or built into the dipstick). Having owned both Kubota’s and Deere’s I have had issues with the front axles leaking as a result of high pressure. The recommended gear oil heats up and begins to build pressure within the housing; with nowhere to go it finds the weakest point - the rubber gasket for the wheel bearings - and viola a leak develops. This leak can in turn allow water to enter the housing via rain or moisture build up from the outside ambient air. Since water has a higher boiling point than gear oil and because the two don’t mix well the water will boil off (especially in 4WD), thus increasing the wear on the front end.
I’m not saying this or any of the other things I previously mentioned is your issue, but rather its something to be aware of, especially considering you already have a potential lingering problem.
Did you run any cleaner or new fluid through the front housing? With the front end lifted up, you can add some new/clean gear oil into the axle housing, slowly rotate the front wheels and then drain it. Do this once or twice to see if there is any additional sediment you may have missed. A couple good neodymium (rare earth) magnets near the drain plugs will help to collect any shavings. This will give you an idea as to how bad the problem is without tearing things apart.
If I had to guess the front axle fluid hasn’t been drained by the dealer and wasn’t changed until now, add the lack of rear ballast during front end work and hopefully that’s the cause for your wear. In either case, sending the fluids off to Blackstone will give you a good idea and basis for your next change.
In the event Kubota doesn’t “feel the need” to warranty this problem, then I would consider that with the cost of the fluid, you could potentially make draining the front axle an “end of year item” - not just for preventive maintenance but also for your peace of mind. Hopefully this helps. Please keep us posted of your results. Most guys post a problem and then never come back to post their results, which could have helped someone else who is in the same or a similar situation.
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #34  
Kioti says regular gear oil (sorry, don't have the weight spec in my head) OR hydralic fluid: not sure what it says in my Kubota manual. I suspect that regular gear oil was in the front axle. I see no way that SUDT could turn to that color w/o having some signficant damage, likely seals (what else could impart black/dark like that?), but that would seem to result in an external sign of leaks. Without knowing what the dealer used one cannot say for sure.

I drained the fluid out of my B7800's front axle (trying to remember whether I'd ever done so [was good about everything else]) and I am sure that it didn't look dark like that. And mind you, we're talking a LOT more hours; and, I doubt that anyone has worked a tractor harder than I've worked this B7800 (I won't go into describing what I've done because people will start sniping away that it's "abuse").

If you haven't sent a sample to the lab yet I'd recommend making a note that you're not sure what fluid that is (probably OK to state that it could be either one or the other).
I too have a 17 year old B7800. I too have abused it well beyond its specifications. Lifting 40% more than the loader specs state. Backdragging with the bucket full dumped. Tilling with a tiller that greatly exceeds specs for HP and weight and in 17 years I have only had 2 repairs. A leaking rear axle seal and a treadle centering bearing. Total cost for me to repair was less than $50.

This thing is a beast.

I do follow manufacture service specs.
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #36  
I switched to synthetic gear oil at 50 hours in my past 2 Kubota tractors. At 400h the gear oil looked similar to new oil, perhaps a shade darker, but I didn't so a side by side backlit comparison.

I personally would not worry too much about how dark the sudt2 was in the photo. You could send a sample out for analysis to see how it compares to similar applications that may be on file. I doubt Kubota will give you a real answer, particularly if it involves disassembly to inspect.

On larger stuff it is a given that lube samples will be collected and the results correlated with the data from the Mfr's data on what part is made from what material and what is showing up in the oil. It is a really accurate way to identify what is wearing without a break down for a look see. I just did a full change out on a JD 410j and everything came back pristine. It is the first for the hyd and trans (ten years :oops:) and of course with std intervals with engine oil. The samples are cheap compared to the labor, materials, etc.

But I'm not sure if data is available for smaller units. I have an old B7100 manual that runs great but blows a bit of smoke under load and starts a bit hard in the winter due to compression. I don't bother with samples. If I'm suspicious I just change it out. BTW, its been on Mobile1 for many years. And I run it in everything I have. But for trans/hyd, just the spec petroleum.

But if you do a get a drain out with bunches of metal you know the damage is already done. Its way past the time for the "which part is it question." If any question it is "Am I doing even more damage that need not be by running it anyway?"

It doesn't sound good. The best you can do at this point is to shorten the change outs.
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #37  
My thoughts jump to how positive are you that the dealer actually changed the axle oil in the first place?
Whether on a pickup or a working machine its pretty easy to tell if a drain plug has just been pulled. Just seeing a new filter, it there is one, doesn't cut it. You have to crawl under it and look. If a mechanic wipes the spot or even put a tool in it so it looked like it was done, well, there's not much you can do about that. That's why I do my own stuff. For the big stuff I call my SIL who is a Cat mechanic. If he screws up I'll apply a large, in arrears, dowry and cut off his hunting access (wink). But he is a cool guy.
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #38  
Whether on a pickup or a working machine its pretty easy to tell if a drain plug has just been pulled. Just seeing a new filter, it there is one, doesn't cut it. You have to crawl under it and look. If a mechanic wipes the spot or even put a tool in it so it looked like it was done, well, there's not much you can do about that. That's why I do my own stuff. For the big stuff I call my SIL who is a Cat mechanic. If he screws up I'll apply a large, in arrears, dowry and cut off his hunting access (wink). But he is a cool guy.
Exactly!
If anything of mine needs to go to the stealership for work or a mechanic for that matter, I use a paint marker on the item to be repaired/replaced. This means that the new OEM part that I bought would or would not have been changed out. Same goes for a tire rotation.
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #39  
Glad you posted this. After reading you OP post. I checked my oil. I follow the manual with all work. I called the dealer about the inital filter change. He told me to just check for metal on the magnet - if no metal, clean it and don't change filter. I am 300 hours. I checked my front axle oil and it looks like yours. dark. But no indication of much metal or particles. So I went ahead and changed the oil at 300. Might do it again at 500 or maybe 600 just to keep it clean. The transmission looks clean - hard to see on the dipstick - I will change it at 400 like the manual.
 
   / How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ? #40  
In my experience, ballast recommendations from manufacturers have nothing to do with front axle loading and everything to do with liability from tipping and roll over. That’s why they recommend either three point ballast or loaded tires. There are dealers who won’t sell a loader without three point ballast or filled tires. When I’ve checked on a couple of past tractors I’ve owned, the front axle was rated beyond the applied forces of a fully loaded loader. I doubt ballast is a requirement for the front axle warranty…but I’d have to read the entire warranty to be sure. And how could the manufacturer prove one way or another wether you used ballast? In some specific situations, they may be able to prove overloading thru fracture or metallurgical analysis (of the worn part, not the metal in the oil). Doing that analysis definitively would almost certainly cost the OEM more than replacing the axle. Of course the opposite is true as well. If OE said no to warranty, could an owner afford the analysis to prove it was faulty design/manufacture/maintenance? If I got to the point of having to spend money to try force warranty coverage, I’d probably try to negotiate a new axle at cost and install it myself.

And for the record, I always use ballast with a loader. Currently have beat juice in rear tires of my B3200.
 

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