Can't get a Kubota M5-111 so, what now?

[Sid Post]

I finally have the money to buy my tractor but, it has gone up $8K and does NOT INCLUDE an 11% steel premium from Kubota. I apparently can't order until Feb/March of next year and the earliest delivery date would be Jan 2023! The price today if I could order would be $72K plus 11% for the steel premium.

How does a New Holland Powerstar 110 with Loader at $65.5K compare? Or, a John Deere 6105E with a loader at $84K?

I need and want a stout loader with a heavy-duty bucket with Skid Steer mounting strongly preferred so I don't have to rebuy attachments though, the pallet forks are really the only one I would need to replace ASAP.

The tractor needs to be a good round bale tractor for both the baler and the loader for stacking bales. The loader will also see a good deal of pallet work with pallet loads of concrete and general steel movement.

I'm having a hard time seeing an additional ~$20K in the John Deere over the New Holland. I'm not hard set against Massey, Case-IH, or others but dealer support locally would be non-existent. The New Holland is on the lot today. The John Deere would deliver in October (of the 20 tractors in-bound, 10 are sold as of today).

What have I overlooked? What words of wisdom do the RKI (reasonably knowledgable individuals) have?

TIA,
Sid

 

[RickB]

Given your location I expect your round bales are 5x6. Is this accurate and how many bales will you be baking with your new tractor?

 

[workinonit]

What about the 5 series? 5100 or 5115?

 

[Hay Dude]

I finally have the money to buy my tractor but, it has gone up $8K and does NOT INCLUDE an 11% steel premium from Kubota. I apparently can't order until Feb/March of next year and the earliest delivery date would be Jan 2023! The price today if I could order would be $72K plus 11% for the steel premium.

How does a New Holland Powerstar 110 with Loader at $65.5K compare? Or, a John Deere 6105E with a loader at $84K?

I need and want a stout loader with a heavy-duty bucket with Skid Steer mounting strongly preferred so I don't have to rebuy attachments though, the pallet forks are really the only one I would need to replace ASAP.

The tractor needs to be a good round bale tractor for both the baler and the loader for stacking bales. The loader will also see a good deal of pallet work with pallet loads of concrete and general steel movement.

I'm having a hard time seeing an additional ~$20K in the John Deere over the New Holland. I'm not hard set against Massey, Case-IH, or others but dealer support locally would be non-existent. The New Holland is on the lot today. The John Deere would deliver in October (of the 20 tractors in-bound, 10 are sold as of today).

What have I overlooked? What words of wisdom do the RKI (reasonably knowledgable individuals) have?

TIA,
Sid

Sid,
I am also a hay farmer. I have a large frame Case IH, a mid frame Massey and 2 Kubotas. I don’t think you can really go wrong with any of the big legacy name brands. I have found that CNH tractors (Case-IH or NH) or AGCO (Massey Ferguson or Fendt) are specifically made for farming. I would encourage you to lean in their direction. I generally believe that Deere is as well, but is not worth the 20% premium. The only tractor worth the premium money is Fendt.

Theres no way in heck I’d wait that long for a Kubota if a CNH or AGCO brands were ready to be delivered. New Holland and Case-IH are the same tractors with different paint now. Both are owned by FIAT, which kinda sucks, but welcome to the “new norm”.
If I were you, I’d be looking at an older Case-IH Maxxum with a 5.9L Cummins and no exhaust after treatment BS. You’ll pay less than 1/2 the price of a new tractor and you can work on it yourself with simple tools.
I have a Case-IH MX270 Magnum with an 8.3L Cummins and could not be happier.

 

[Hay Dude]

Another suggestion: I have a 2008 Massey Ferguson 7495. It has all the creature comforts a man could want, no exhaust treatment systems, but most importantly, it has a CVT transmission which is the greatest gift ever given to the farm tractor since the PTO. They make smaller versions with CVT transmissions.
I heartily suggest you look at those units, too.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Personally, I'd be looking hard at a Massey of that size farm tractor, these days they seem to be the most farm tractor for the least money, and folks seem to be very happy with them.

The ones I personally would stay away from, are the New Hollands...

The problem with deere is, they want too much $ for green paint!!

SR

 

[RickB]

A $20K premium for an E series Deere is absurd. I'm waiting on more info from the OP about his round baling needs. I'm not sure ~110 engine hp is enough and I'm not sure the chassis he is considering are robust enough to handle the pallets he is describing.

 

[Sid Post]

Given your location I expect your round bales are 5x6. Is this accurate and how many bales will you be baking with your new tractor?

It really depends on rainfall and other weather factors. The nominal volume is probably around 100/year but, can be as few as 60 or occasionally a lot more if the weather is good.

 

[Sid Post]

What about the 5 series? 5100 or 5115?

I think I want more tractor weight in the frame and major drive components for a better longterm ownership experience. Loader work with heavy bales up high or a baler in bad field conditions can really beat on a smaller tractor.

That's the main reason I ruled out an M4. Sure, the extra PTO HP is nice but, I can live with a little less width on a mower or run a little slower ground speed with the baler but, I can't do anything with stability stacking bales three high or onto a trailer or when the baler is trying to "steer" the tractor in the field.

There are also odd jobs to keep in mind like a pallet of concrete or moving a steel object. ~3400lbs (concrete pallet weight) will unbalance a lot of tractors which is a safety issue I want to avoid. That also doesn't factor in the financial loss if no one is hurt when the tractor rolls or tips over.

 

[Sid Post]

Sid,
I am also a hay farmer. I have a Case IH a Massey and 2 large Kubotas. I don’t think you can really go wrong with any of the big legacy name brands. I have found that CNH tractors (Case-IH or NH) or AGCO (Massey Ferguson or Fendt) are specifically made for farming. I would encourage you to lean in their direction. I generally believe that Deere is as well, but is not worth the 20% premium. The only tractor worth the premium money is Fendt.

Theres no way in heck I’d wait that long for a Kubota if a CNH or AGCO brands were ready to be delivered. New Holland and Case-IH are the same tractors with different paint now. Both are owned by FIAT, which kinda sucks, but welcome to the “new norm”.
If I were you, I’d be looking at an older Case-IH Maxxum with a 5.9L Cummins and no exhaust after treatment BS. You’ll pay less than 1/2 the price of a new tractor and you can work on it yourself with simple tools.
I have a Case-IH MX270 Magnum with an 8.3L Cummins and could not be happier.

The German John Deere and Fendt options are certainly awesome tractors. If I was into precision agriculture, I could see one of those being a good investment. The reality though is the price tag is so high I can't see one on my property anytime soon and, the added features and functionality aren't something I can really use or take advantage of much, if at all.

Case-IH around here isn't supported in any meaningful way. New Holland isn't exactly a brand with a wide array of dealer support options but, there is a strong dealer about ~30 miles away. However, if they go under which is a possibility in today's economy, I have a really long drive for parts or service. Fiat has a bad reputation but, like Ferrari and Ducati, the Italians can make good reliable products at a price the market will accept. New Holland tractors I have been around always seemed functional but, a little basic overall. Sort of a John Deere economy tractor experience if you will.

The Case-IH Maxxum options sound like something worth looking into though, I probably would be looking at shipping one in from out of state.

 

[5030]

Get yourself a Fendt Vario and be happy and poor.

 

[Sid Post]

Another suggestion: I have a 2008 Massey Ferguson 7495. It has all the creature comforts a man could want, no exhaust treatment systems, but most importantly, it has a CVT transmission which is the greatest gift ever given to the farm tractor since the PTO. They make smaller versions with CVT transmissions.
I heartily suggest you look at those units, too

I have always had a bit of a soft spot for Massey tractors even though I grew up on green equipment. Those old Perkins engines were legendary too!

With corporate buyouts and mergers, and exclusive dealership agreements, Massey totally left this part of the world. I'm still tempted to replace my Kubota L4600 with a 4707 but, that L4600 is such a nice tractor for light chores and fieldwork ...

 

[Sid Post]

...
The ones I personally would stay away from, are the New Hollands
...

SR

Why? What is it about New Hollands that causes you to avoid them?

 

[Sid Post]

A $20K premium for an E series Deere is absurd. I'm waiting on more info from the OP about his round baling needs. I'm not sure ~110 engine hp is enough and I'm not sure the chassis he is considering are robust enough to handle the pallets he is describing.

I'm thinking 90HP on the PTO is plenty. I have run a 135HP and a 150HP John Deere a lot and, while they worked fine, I felt like they were a bit of overkill on the Vermeer baler I ran. Those tractors though saw a lot of field use so hooked up to a disc or huge field cultivator made them a good choice for a "one tractor" scenario even though fuel burn was relatively high for the hayfield.

 

[Sid Post]

A $20K premium for an E series Deere is absurd. ...

If the $20K premium got me into one of the German John Deeres, I could see it being a viable consideration.

For a more economy-minded basic Mexican tractor, paying almost a 1/3 more for a green tractor from the local "big box" corporate chain that owns the JD dealerships makes New Holland look a lot more attractive to me today.

 

[Sid Post]

Get yourself a Fendt Vario and be happy and poor.

I would love to own one but, the price of admission is too steep for me today.

 

[5030]

Today and into the future, with ever increasing diesel fuel costs, fuel consumption per acre in any operation becomes an issue. Post Biden it wasn't. Now it is and will only get worse.

One of the main reasons I don't desire owning a post 4 tractor besides the electronic controls. Electronics tend to always be a lowest bidder scenario today. Just look to the domestic automakers and the 'chip shortage' for a prime example. All about cheap versus maximum profit.

 

[5030]

I would love to own one but, the price of admission is too steep for me today.

No romance when it comes to finance....lol Number of used, low hour Fendt's on TH this week.

Have no idea what Fendt is offering in incentive packages or financing but I bet they have 'deals' like all the others have.

 

[RickB]

I'm thinking 90HP on the PTO is plenty. I have run a 135HP and a 150HP John Deere a lot and, while they worked fine, I felt like they were a bit of overkill on the Vermeer baler I ran. Those tractors though saw a lot of field use so hooked up to a disc or huge field cultivator made them a good choice for a "one tractor" scenario even though fuel burn was relatively high for the hayfield.

For 100 5x6's a year you can get along. If you needed to do 100 a day you would soon realize you were 25-50 hp short.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Why? What is it about New Hollands that causes you to avoid them?

First off, for my place I base reliability just about above all, I don't trade tractors off every few years, I expect them to run for a long time. I also know farmers all over the country and NH farm tractors seem to have more problems than they should have, as they get older.

Constant little problems bug the he!! out of me even as much or more than big problems. I just keep hearing about little things needing dealer attention too often for me, so you won't see one on my farm.

I know, there's always a guy someplace that says he never has problems, but that's not the "average" that "I" look at, for my farm.

SR