Buying Advice Is it possible to go too big?

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I "took the scenic route" to this point in my life of being in my early thirties with two young kids and fleeing to the country. ****head until my early twenties, military, out and used my GI bill, found myself back in a CA that seemed greatly different than what I knew as a starry eyed kid, bought a CA home to do significant renovations on, had a couple kids, sold home and made a mint, moved 3000 miles to 58 acres in NC.

You're not in Kansas anymore Dorothy.

 

[kenmac]

In addition to all the other good advice given so far, consider this: If you plan to do work on densely wooded acreage or along a heavily limbed tree line, a tractor with a cab is not ideal. They are easily damaged if great care isn't used. As a novice, you'll need to learn where not to use a cabbed machine.

And They aren't that easy to get on and off of as an open station tractor.
If you're on the tractor for several hours working it, they're are good. but not so good if you are going to be on and off several times.
If you're a young guy, it may not matter though.
I'm 63 and climbing in and out of that cab on the 105 gets old.

 

[hosspuller]

I "took the scenic route" to this point in my life of being in my early thirties with two young kids and fleeing to the country. ****head until my early twenties, military, out and used my GI bill, found myself back in a CA that seemed greatly different than what I knew as a starry eyed kid, bought a CA home to do significant renovations on, had a couple kids, sold home and made a mint, moved 3000 miles to 58 acres in NC.

Welcome to NC... Remember the things that changed in CA. Keep it from happening in NC.

 

[PaultheMaleNurse]

Welcome to NC... Remember the things that changed in CA. Keep it from happening in NC.

Most would probably be surprised how staunchly and drastically the things in CA have driven me in the polar opposite direction. As did going to college after being in the military.

 

[PaultheMaleNurse]

So it sounded like I had a strong response that the tym 1104 was too much machine for me and even for my land purposes. Do people also think the smaller kubota m4 is too large?

 

[Xfaxman]

I want to keep knocked down and tamed by semi regular mowing/bush hogging.

I prefer an out front mower.
The 7' brush hog:

The 6' finish mower:

Besides the previously mentioned 28 acres of maintenance taming, over the next few years I want to potentially relocate, and certainly maintain, the gravel driveway into the property

With a landscape rake:

Or skid steer style landplane:

Or 8' box blade:

fell some timber and clear brush to make trails to the more wooded areas,

Rated at 1500, but will lift over 3000 pounds with the rear wheels still on the ground:

I've also gotten my heart set on a buddy seat so in a few years when I've learned to drive the thing and my very young children are a tiny bit older they can ride with dad. I think those moments will be priceless.

The Toolcat 5610 has a full-size passenger door and seat:

More pictures: Toolcat 5610 F and 5610 G Series Pictures

 

[PaultheMaleNurse]

I prefer an out front mower.
The 7' brush hog:View attachment 719106

The 6' finish mower:
View attachment 719107


With a landscape rake:
View attachment 719108

Or skid steer style landplane:
View attachment 719109

Or 8' box blade:
View attachment 719110

Rated at 1500, but will lift over 3000 pounds with the rear wheels still on the ground:
View attachment 719111

The Toolcat 5610 has a full-size passenger door and seat:
View attachment 719112

More pictures: Toolcat 5610 F and 5610 G Series Pictures

That's an incredible little machine! I'd honestly need to do a ton of research on something like that because I've not considered one or even know what one costs.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I "took the scenic route" to this point in my life of being in my early thirties with two young kids and fleeing to the country. ****head until my early twenties, military, out and used my GI bill, found myself back in a CA that seemed greatly different than what I knew as a starry eyed kid, bought a CA home to do significant renovations on, had a couple kids, sold home and made a mint, moved 3000 miles to 58 acres in NC.

In my opinion you made a fantastic move.

 

[hosspuller]

So it sounded like I had a strong response that the tym 1104 was too much machine for me and even for my land purposes. Do people also think the smaller kubota m4 is too large?

At 105 Hp unless you're doing a lot of heavy tillage or bush hogging with a 15 foot batwing ... yes too big. Note it has a 5.3 gallon DEF tank... EPA machine it is ..
The Kubota M4 at 65 Hp is also too engine large, but right frame size... unless again you have enough work for it.

I recommend the same size frame but step down in Hp ... see my post about working the EPA tractors.

 

[JethroB]

Renting out the 28 acres to a nearby farmer in the short term may be a good option. I rent out 20 acres to a neighbor for growing row crops. He keeps the two fields clean and tidy otherwise I’d have to mow or maintain them. The rent, though not much $$$, covers the property taxes for all. I wouldn’t rent to anyone with labor intensive crops as that would involve a lot of strangers being in and out, noise, and trash. BTDT. I’d suggest looking at a higher HP CUT or smaller utility tractor. 50-60 HP.

 

[jjp8182]

I'd suggest going through and figuring out what tasks you want/need to routinely do and how long you can/want to spend doing them. Then go through and identify any hard limits (like height, and overall width, loader lifting capacity, lift height and reach)...and then go about finding a tractor that can power/use the implement sizes you'll need to hit your timeliness want/need for the different tasks.

For any significant digging, it's probably worth renting equipment as tractor loaders aren't the greatest at digging with the loader.

Weight plays a part in stability (as does width vs. height low & wide being better than narrow and tall for stability), but the real benefit of additional weight is in having enough to use all the power the tractor can put to the ground.

Of course, that extra traction/weight isn't needed for PTO work (beyond ensuring the implement doesn't turn into a tail wagging the dog so to speak).

As far as riders (children or otherwise) and even helpers (riding or not) - it's worth considering where they are and considering if it's a safe spot should they fall or something go astray (that includes any inadvertant impact they may have on your being able to safely operate the machinery).

E.g. riding/standing on a drawbar at low (forward) speed with no towed implements the worst that's likely to happen would likely be similar to falling while walking/running behind the tractor, but falling in the path of an oncoming tire? Moving masses generally don't stop quickly - nor do falling ones and humans aren't that well built.

Life is full of risks and the best mitigations come from being aware and using actual thought.

 

[Xfaxman]

That's an incredible little machine! I'd honestly need to do a ton of research on something like that because I've not considered one or even know what one costs.

I posted because a lot of people have never seen one.

It is going to cost more than a small tractor, but it is commercial quality and with 4 wheel steering, cab with ROPS, FOPS, air conditioning and heat, it is a fantastic machine.

Can't do this with a tractor if close to a building or fence:

Turn the rear wheels away:

And back up:

 

[Xfaxman]

For any significant digging, it's probably worth renting equipment as tractor loaders aren't the greatest at digging with the loader.

Toolcats do well digging, this is red clay and a 6' wide 1 cubic yard bucket:

 

[finn1]

How do you figure?

There’s no comparison in the robustness of a piece of construction equipment and a compact tractor.

Take a gander of any small tractor. Exposed linkage, hoses, and hydraulic lines from stem to stern. Construction equipment has all of that well protected by stout belly pans.

fundamentally, tractors are designed to work land that’s already been mostly improved. Construction equipment is designed for clearing and improving land.

 

[jeff9366]

So it sounded like I had a strong response that the tym 1104 was too much machine for me and even for my land purposes. Do people also think the smaller kubota m4 is too large?

A 6,000 pound bare weight tractor will be fine but consider these points:

6,000 pound tractor + 1,400 pound Loader + 800 pound cab + 1,600 pound mower = 9,800 pounds.

Do you have any swampy land? Streams to ford? Any bridges to cross on your land? Cattle grates? What about destructive tractor momentum when you inadvertently tap something? Consider the total length of this rig. Can your road vehicle legally pull a trailer laded with a 8,200 pound operating weight tractor to the dealer for service?

24 gallon fuel tank to fill out of five gallon containers.

----- 0 -----​

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor capability is more closely correlated to tractor weight than any other specification.

Bare tractor weight is a fundamental tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used. Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range.

I have participated here for years. I still have no idea what "frame size" is nor the relevance of "frame size" to a tractor buying decision. I have owned (1) Deere and (2) Kubota tractors. I have never heard a tractor dealer mention "frame size" to potential customers.

When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, rear wheel/tire ballast fourth. (Cabbed tractors do not need rear wheel/tire ballast; the 800 pound cab serves as ballast.)

----- 0 -----​

I recommend a tractor of about 5,000 pounds bare tractor weight as ample for your tasks and not too difficult to learn tractor skills operating. A 5,000 pound bare weight tractor is ample for your current applications and will be ample for farming 28 acres should you decide to assume that task in the future. A prudent new operator can safely lift a one ton load with the Loader on any 5,000 pound bare weight tractor with sufficient TPH counterbalance mounted.

 

[PaultheMaleNurse]

A 6,000 pound bare weight tractor will be fine but consider these points:

6,000 pound tractor + 1,400 pound Loader + 800 pound cab + 1,400 pound mower = 9,600 pounds.

Do you have any swampy land? Any bridges to cross on your land? What about destructive tractor momentum when you inadvertentently tap something? Consider the total length of this rig. Can your road vehicle legally pull a trailer and 8,200 pound tractor to the dealer for service?

24 gallon fuel tank to fill out of five gallon containers.

Sandy and flat ground. No bodies of water or bridges. I can't speak to every inch of the property yet about any swampy areas.

 

[rScotty]

The only problem with a large tractor is just that it is unfamiliar, and bigger means even more potentially dangerous. They aren't hard to use, but there is a learning curve, it involves unfamiliar hazards, and I believe everyone here will tell you the same.

Tractors move slowly, but inevitably. They turn differently than a car, slide at odd moments, and swing large implements like flails. They are not as stable as a car, or as user friendly. For instance, no tractor has front brakes.... did you even know that? That means there is a serious challenge to going down even a slightly wet slope safely, and with a load in the front bucket it is even more so.

And don't let me even get into spinning PTOs or lifting things with the front end loader kinds of hazards. Or gate posts that were almost wide enough - and now they are....a bit crooked maybe, but definitely wide enough....

That's not to discourage you, but please take the time for to be smart here. I've had a dozen tractors and used them for over 60 years. Just yesterday evening as I parked our big tractor I looked back & suddenly focused on a forgotten lever that was not folded back into place & which must have only missed the side of my wife's cherished vintage Lexus by inches. Tractors are big and heavy and kinda inevitable. If I had hit her car with the big tractor chances are I wouldn't even had noticed.

- btw, our big tractor has a cab - farther removing one from the world of sheds, fences, children, and animals.
Cabs are wonderful, but isolating.
Do a search on tractor cabs and trees, or backing up with the tractor cab doors open. We have all done that.

Ask around, see how many of us have scared ourself or will confess to putting a bit of a scrape on something we wish we hadn't.

So that's my input. If I were doing what you are, I'd get a nice first tractor that will last a lifetime. Let me describe what I would recommend:

Make it a 45 to 65 hp (I'd go smaller hp before I'd go larger), OPEN STATION, 4wd tractor, with a wide stance, wheel weights, a HST transmission, a good solid loader (SSQA), and Cat. 1/II 3pt hitch with a 3 way manual adjustable 7 or 8 foot blade on the back. Put a canopy on it to keep off the sun and rain. Buy hearing protection, two 12/15 foot grade 80 or better 5/16" chains with grab hooks on each end, & some gloves. That's it. A nice basic simple tractor. Start simple. Let it be your tutor.
I bet you will keep it a lifetime. Simple to help keep you safe while learning.
Good luck & enjoy,
rScotty

 

[PaultheMaleNurse]

Just to clarify something also, about 13ish of the previously farmed land is surrounding the house 360 degrees and I'm not willing to lease something in that proximity to the house for farming. The 15ish acres that I am willing to lease is separated by a substantial tree and shrub row (wall of green) that will likely need some work to even access and where I want to create an improved gravel road to eventually.

No matter what, I will be continually maintaining the land immediately around the house myself (13 acres), utilizing the tractor for whatever I create there. Down the road I may choose to carve out more for leasing but those two large cleared areas are what I have to work with right now.

 

[rScotty]

And if I win the lottery, I may just go visit Xfaxman and ask him to guide me through buying one of those fancy toolcats he is always talking up. Our tractors could use a companion, and who doesn't want a new toy?

We'll be keeping our tractors too, of course.

From the looks, I believe the ToolCat is more for maintaining a property than for traditional agriculture, but I also think that is exactly what many of us do.

 

[Jchonline]

Just to clarify something also, about 13ish of the previously farmed land is surrounding the house 360 degrees and I'm not willing to lease something in that proximity to the house for farming. The 15ish acres that I am willing to lease is separated by a substantial tree and shrub row (wall of green) that will likely need some work to even access and where I want to create an improved gravel road to eventually.

No matter what, I will be continually maintaining the land immediately around the house myself (13 acres), utilizing the tractor for whatever I create there. Down the road I may choose to carve out more for leasing but those two large cleared areas are what I have to work with right now.

Get the machine you need now. If you are smart about the purchase and take good care of the machine it will retain its value, and you can sell/trade it down the road to upgrade.