Sticker shock

[kenmac]

prices for used equipment are up. I could probably get more for my CX than I paid.
There is a local guy here that has an 07 Kubota 105 hp cabbed tractor with loader. He's asking 37,900 with 1500 hrs. He'll probably get it too !

 

[Hay Dude]

I received an email from Kubota about their 84 mo, 0% financing on L60 tractors so for sheets and giggles I built a L4760 HST w/ cab on their website.

After adding all the options I would like I came to $76,500. Woah.

That’s what I paid for my Kubota M126x with loader and 8’ bucket in 2012.

 

[Hay Dude]

Anything coming in a container from overseas is going to get extremely expensive. Someone is going to pay for all those ships sitting waiting to be unloaded, all the fines for containers sitting on the dock waiting to be transported, and for storage at the next place they get stored. Everybody is blaming someone else. Each one is coming up with a plan, like fining companies for not removing containers from the dock quick enough, that ignores reality. Money is being thrown around like crazy with the idea that it'll fix the problem. So even if a tractor is built here the parts that are needed to build it still need to get shipped here.

It’s a shame nothing is made in our country anymore. If anything was, it might alleviate supply shortages from China and make us able to survive longer should another pandemic happen.

 

[Kschwennsen]

I work for a company that makes most of our products in Wisconsin and we see a sales boost everything there is a crisis. It makes me wonder why more things aren't made here or able to switch to made here quicker. I know it's not ideal or practical to make things here in the same quantity but having that option really helps a companies bottom line. I also have my own fab shop I'm trying to launch and steel prices are my biggest hurdle but there is definingly money to be made if you have the time to work for it.

 

[DonaldP]

I received an email from Kubota about their 84 mo, 0% financing on L60 tractors so for sheets and giggles I built a L4760 HST w/ cab on their website.

After adding all the options I would like I came to $76,500. Woah.

In summer 2020 my L3560LE HSTC (cab) with BH92 backhoe, 72” LP Grapple, kubota 3rd function, and a few other bells and whistles (no rear remotes) was $52,500.

You would need to weight everything you added into your into your unit in order to get a fair response to your post. Anyone that responds with anything without the specifics would be guessing.

I’ve run the numbers for my exact unit in the last week, and found that the prices are within reasonable amounts for inflation sbput $53,500, or $1000 more (albeit I would have to wait for 6-12 months or more for delivery.

So based on that I would say that as long as the dealer sticks to the Kubota build pricing program you aren’t paying much more than standard inflation -at this point at least.

oh… I failed to mention that the max financing for my purchase ended up being 72 months. But there was a buy up ($1000) added to the price that could get me 0% for 84 months. So I went that route. If you can get 0% for 84 months now without the buy up that’s a good deal on the financing side.

 

[DonaldP]

Anything coming in a container from overseas is going to get extremely expensive. Someone is going to pay for all those ships sitting waiting to be unloaded, all the fines for containers sitting on the dock waiting to be transported, and for storage at the next place they get stored. Everybody is blaming someone else. Each one is coming up with a plan, like fining companies for not removing containers from the dock quick enough, that ignores reality. Money is being thrown around like crazy with the idea that it'll fix the problem. So even if a tractor is built here the parts that are needed to build it still need to get shipped here.

I believe there is more to this than meets the eye.

the shipping business is as full as crooked people and behaviors as the federal government supply chain. It’s been like this since the beginning. A small situation like this is not going to “break” the foul system that greases the palms of the people running this.

It’s still pay to play, and the goods that are actually moved are based on deals made in dark offices on the dock and around well lighted tables in high rise buildings in Manhatten and San Diego.

If somethings moving, somebody paid for it with something. If your stuff is not moving than you’re not playing by those deals thst were cut and that you may or may not be privy to.

 

[EddinKY]

I buy a lot of feed for my animals...Grain, Corn and soybeans, all grown in this country have gone up in price 50% in the last year. Have you heard any farmers complaining about that price increase? I also buy gasoline, most based on American crude oil, have you heard any oil company drillers or field workers complaining about higher crude oil prices? Last month several hundred thousand low wage employees switched to higher paying jobs. None of these folks are complaining about getting paid more. It is not bad news for everyone. Some people do well when prices rise.

 

[JethroB]

I just did a build on Kubota’s website for the base tractor I bought new in 2018. MSRP is up about 6%. So that’s near a normal inflation rate of ~2%. Now would my dealer still give the same 15% off list now? Rather doubt it but I think he would be reasonable. He like others are struggling to get inventory.

 

[Hotpot]

My Father has warned of inflation in our talks for now 40 years. Even now i hear the underlying tone of people talk about how the pain can be avoided. As i mentioned this is a tone ive been hearing of for 40+ years. We do not need to avoid the pain ( kick the can down the road) in my mind. We need to be brave and face the economic pains of bad policy which will drive local manufacturing, I.E. jobs for our children. This/my position is an old one but the sooner the better as far as i am concerned.
I think i should mention that i believe mine and others arguements are really pointless becuase they come from a position that the powers at be want a good economy, which couldn't be further from the true. This is a planned take down of USA's wealth and prosperity. Once you reealize this fully, the fog of war will lift in your mind and youll begin to see why the decisions are made the way they are. May God bless America.

 

[sd455dan]

WoW another eye opener from an interview with Machinery Pete:

used auction prices soaring and Peterson told Bloomberg that the used tractor market is the most active he’s seen in his 32-year career

Sounds like "if" you can get a new tractor it will make more sense to buy it and finance it, than bidding on used equipment.

The Used Tractor Market Is Far Wilder Than the Used Car Market

Inflation, a labor strike, and the lack of repairability on newer models is a perfect storm that’s sent prices surging.

www.vice.com

 

[BeezFun]

Kubota website still shows the 20% discount for NCHA members. That brings list prices below where they were prior to 2 years ago before this discount began. I'm guessing dealers no longer offer anything on top of that 20%, I know my dealer was giving an extra 5% before the covid thing started but I'm guessing everthing is strictly MSRP now.

 

[DonaldP]

WoW another eye opener from an interview with Machinery Pete:

used auction prices soaring and Peterson told Bloomberg that the used tractor market is the most active he’s seen in his 32-year career

Sounds like "if" you can get a new tractor it will make more sense to buy it and finance it, than bidding on used equipment.

The Used Tractor Market Is Far Wilder Than the Used Car Market

Inflation, a labor strike, and the lack of repairability on newer models is a perfect storm that’s sent prices surging.

www.vice.com

That was a great article, but in my opinion, it seems to be a bit on the exaggerated side with the statement of “inability to repair late model tractors”.

I can’t believe that any tractor manufacturer would enter into this kind of a negative commitment relationship with it’s dealer network.
Ive been waiting on a replacement hood for my Kubota for about 6 months. Ok.. yes it’s not a priority item so I understand. But I can’t believe that if there was an issue that prevented a late model tractor from working fir someone that Kubota would put that part into a new machine over sending out a part to be used for repairs…..

I believe something is amiss in that article.
Granted that the market demand is extremely high, and prices will go up due to a higher demand and lower supply… that’s a given.
But what freaks me out is that inflation is a multiple pronged issue.

One cup of supply Vs demand increases.

Two cups of Government spending ($1.2 trillion and growing) increases

One cup of ordinary every day cost/labor pricing increases

Two heaping cups of a frothy stock market that continues to rise not based on performance… but on companies that are full speed ahead working their tails off simply to cover the demand that they weren’t able to deliver over the last 2 years due to COVID increases. Look at lumber as a perfect example. These companies aren’t “performing”… they are now creating their own price increases based on the supplier before them and the supplier before them and on and on and on … they aren’t performing, they are “recovering”, and the market is rewarding their recovery as if it were GROWTH! It’s not!!! They can barely get the past demand resolved at the prices of the stock before this all started.

Now everyone is telling us it’s a great time to buy stocks! Why? Is there more product on the shelves now than in the beginning of the supply crises? Nope.

Ok… so where is the actual growth to show that the market should be rewarded and respected as valuable as it has been the last 2 years?

And there you have it… you have a perfect storm for possibly tipping the whole batch over. The economy is top heavy.

The last thing we need to do is have the government print more money which devalues anything we might have saved in our lives. While at the same time we are at a tipping point even before we decided to spend 1.2 trillion…. (Of our money not taxpayer money. It’s not funds collected from taxpayers… This 1.2 trillion is printed $$$…)

printed money = more inflation….

I suppose many folks just don’t realize that.

Some will say it’s for infrastructure stupid!!!! We need that!!

No we don’t. We need the local and state governments to be held accountable for NOT managing those infrastructure issues over the last 30 or 40 years.

You have been paying your taxes to cover these “infrastructure” deficiencies for years….and where has all the money for Detroit’s lead water pipe infrastructure gone?

For stadiums and extra curricular activites that has nothing to do with healthy water for the citizens.

Why all of the sudden is the federal government fixing all the stuff we should have been fixing for 40 years?

 

[dieselbob69]

I've almost been tempted to put my BX1870 up for sale and get a BX2380 with the way used prices are now. Almost crapped myself when I put my car's info into Carvana last week and they came back with an offer over $14k, and last year I couldn't even get a value as it was a base model and "undesirable"....

 

[ddbackhoe]

Better find the best deal you can on anything that you need or want now, cause it's not going to get better. The people running the show don't have the economic sense to run a lemonade stand.

 

[Torvy]

I buy a lot of feed for my animals...Grain, Corn and soybeans, all grown in this country have gone up in price 50% in the last year. Have you heard any farmers complaining about that price increase? I also buy gasoline, most based on American crude oil, have you heard any oil company drillers or field workers complaining about higher crude oil prices? Last month several hundred thousand low wage employees switched to higher paying jobs. None of these folks are complaining about getting paid more. It is not bad news for everyone. Some people do well when prices rise.

I guess I would say bless their hearts. Expenses rise quickly, those getting paid more are not gaining buying power...that is the thing with inflation everything goes up. The only 'winners' are few and far between. Certainly not farmers, not wage workers either. Those who hold assets that do not depreciate will do ok. That can lead to someone being more cash poor. Cannot eat value on paper.

 

[Hay Dude]

I buy a lot of feed for my animals...Grain, Corn and soybeans, all grown in this country have gone up in price 50% in the last year. Have you heard any farmers complaining about that price increase? I also buy gasoline, most based on American crude oil, have you heard any oil company drillers or field workers complaining about higher crude oil prices? Last month several hundred thousand low wage employees switched to higher paying jobs. None of these folks are complaining about getting paid more. It is not bad news for everyone. Some people do well when prices rise.

Well let me tell ya EddinKY, I haven’t been making much money in the last few decades, so yeah, you would think a price increase would be great. However, it’s not doing much anything but covering my increased input costs (Diesel fuel, oil, grease, parts, fertilizer).
Its not like I have any more money after the bills are paid than pre-hyperinflation. Add to that the looming crisis coming with energy and everything having to be battery operated and it’s really more a relief that I will only be farming another 10-15 years.
Someone else can try to make it work with $10 diesel, 1980’s food prices and a bunch of faculty lounge people telling us how to farm. Quite honestly, I see a future where those in charge will run all the farmers out of business and we will buy all our food offshore, too just like manufacturing

 

[DonaldP]

Well let me tell ya EddinKY, I haven’t been making much money in the last few decades, so yeah, you would think a price increase would be great. However, it’s not doing much anything but covering my increased input costs (Diesel fuel, oil, grease, parts, fertilizer).
Its not like I have any more money after the bills are paid than pre-hyperinflation. Add to that the looming crisis coming with energy and everything having to be battery operated and it’s really more a relief that I will only be farming another 10-15 years.
Someone else can try to make it work with $10 diesel, 1980’s food prices and a bunch of faculty lounge people telling us how to farm.

What a great response to a difficult situation. You definitely share your pain in your comments, and although I can’t say I know all of the details of that particular situation, I for one can feel as a whole the frustration of many many folks out there in a myriad of situations tangent to this issue.

Displacement of our capacity to make a living in many many areas is slowly being eroded by the disruption of our current energy systems and the political views associated with global warming.
I’m not an expert here, more so a participant. Yet one that would, if the knowledge and technology were available, move to more sustainable resources.

But look at California… quite possibly some of the most difficult fire control issues in the country and maybe even the world, due to any large fires proximity to population….

They forbid cutting down trees and disturbing vegetation in areas that might very well be the key to preventing loss of life, wildlife, and habitat … the very things they want to save. Ask them and their response might very well be “well if we weren’t in a global warming situation we wouldn’t be having the fires” but that may or may not be. I dont know. What I can say is if you have a need to manage away the possibility of fires, and you fail to appropriate the funding and resources to do that… well, you’re negligent … quit passing that on to global warming and take responsibility to protect your tax paying constituents.

But what I do believe is that mankind usually finds a way. We’re pretty smart generally as a species.

Once we find a solution, kind of like COVID, we will keep on it until we get a full resolution. It may be years or more… but it’s the time between then and now where we need to be observant of those around us taking it head on, like you.
I for one appreciate your work, and your efforts. No less important to our society than a Doctor or a rocket scientist…

 

[ctgoldwing]

. . . But look at California… quite possibly some of the most difficult fire control issues in the country and maybe even the world, due to any large fires proximity to population….

They forbid cutting down trees and disturbing vegetation in areas that might very well be the key to preventing loss of life, wildlife, and habitat … the very things they want to save. Ask them and their response might very well be “well if we weren’t in a global warming situation we wouldn’t be having the fires” but that may or may not be. I dont know. What I can say is if you have a need to manage away the possibility of fires, and you fail to appropriate the funding and resources to do that… well, you’re negligent … quit passing that on to global warming and take responsibility to protect your tax paying constituents.

' ' '

Let's try to keep it all in perspective, exactly who is "They"

From FACTS ABOUT CA FORESTS


Of the approximately 33 million acres of forest in California, federal agencies (including the USDA Forest Service and USDI Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service) own and manage 19 million acres (57%). State and local agencies including CalFire, local open space, park and water districts and land trusts own another 3%. 40% of California's forestland is owned by families, Native American tribes, or companies. Industrial timber companies own 5 million acres (14%). 9 million acres are owned by individuals with nearly 90% of these owners having less than 50 acres of forest land.

 

[5030]

Keep in mind that the website build it price and your local dealer's price will be different and usually less. Case in point, I bought a new 4x5 Kubota Premium Round bailer this fall and the build it price and the actual price I paid was 5 grand different. Build it price is always retail suggested price and because dealers are independent businessmen they can vary the price so long as they make some profit.

 

[DonaldP]

Let's try to keep it all in perspective, exactly who is "They"

From FACTS ABOUT CA FORESTS


Of the approximately 33 million acres of forest in California, federal agencies (including the USDA Forest Service and USDI Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service) own and manage 19 million acres (57%). State and local agencies including CalFire, local open space, park and water districts and land trusts own another 3%. 40% of California's forestland is owned by families, Native American tribes, or companies. Industrial timber companies own 5 million acres (14%). 9 million acres are owned by individuals with nearly 90% of these owners having less than 50 acres of forest land.

I agree… but I try not to be picky… if any of those entities are responsible for the land they own, then they might be interested in managing that land. If not then nature will do it for them, all at the cost of loss of habitat and an increasing carbon footprint over minimizing it via mgmt.

No, I’m not pointing fingers, but I am asking questions about who’s responsibility maintenance of land is to fall on. Is it the right, the left, the future, or the current owners or operators of that land?