L3301 or similar

[dave9876]

This is great stuff. Thanks.

I went to the dealer yesterday and looked at the L series and the LX series.

The gear drive does indeed NOT have a live PTO. Could be a problem tilling and coming to a complete stop.

The HST has independent PTO. Makes more sense to me.

LX is just a little smaller, and has the mid PTO which will suit me better in the long run for a mower. Looks like the LX2610HSD would be a good fit for me. Since I need a tiller, loader +QA bucket, QA snow blade +left/right, and mower, cost is adding up quickly.

Our property hasn’t been plowed in the last 20 years according to aerial photos I could find. So this is stubborn ground. NE Ohio. I will charge the tires so the LX2610HSD with loader, bucket, tiller, and me would be about 3200 pounds. Guessing a BX is about 2400 and the L 4200.

I’m sure the LX3301HSD would be even better, but aside from the regen concerns, … my biggest fear is not having enough power. But I don’t want to buy too much. Upcharge is $4800.

Can I manage “forward tractor speed for tilling” by just going slower with the HST? That must be what you guys were talking about “creeper speeds” , mph, etc.

Can I also get some opinions on forward rotary tillers or reversing? Hoping for a decent sized garden in 2023 after all the heavy yard work is done.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

 

[rScotty]

Gear drive 3301 doesn't have a live PTO. That's the only reason that I bought a hydro.

3 years later I STILL stall it more often doing loader work than I ever did with my geared L275.

I had to check that in the spec sheet online, but right you are. Good catch!
The gear transmission is has an additional F & R shuttle lever which IMHO makes it much preferable over a traditional gear and clutch type. That's a nice transmission on the L3301.
But I thought transmission-driven PTOs were a thing of the past. That's a deal breaker for some people. I've use transmission driven PTOs, but it was years ago.
You can use the PTO while sitting still in neutral in a transmission driven PTO, but then you have to clutch to shift into gear and the PTO is unpowered at that point. So the implement slows down or stops until you pick up speed. A transmission PTO is downright archaic compared with a live, independent PTO.

rScotty

 

[rScotty]

This is great stuff. Thanks.

I went to the dealer yesterday and looked at the L series and the LX series.

The gear drive does indeed NOT have a live PTO. Could be a problem tilling and coming to a complete stop.

The HST has independent PTO. Makes more sense to me.

LX is just a little smaller, and has the mid PTO which will suit me better in the long run for a mower. Looks like the LX2610HSD would be a good fit for me. Since I need a tiller, loader +QA bucket, QA snow blade +left/right, and mower, cost is adding up quickly.

Our property hasn’t been plowed in the last 20 years according to aerial photos I could find. So this is stubborn ground. NE Ohio. I will charge the tires so the LX2610HSD with loader, bucket, tiller, and me would be about 3200 pounds. Guessing a BX is about 2400 and the L 4200.

I’m sure the LX3301HSD would be even better, but aside from the regen concerns, … my biggest fear is not having enough power. But I don’t want to buy too much. Upcharge is $4800.

Can I manage “forward tractor speed for tilling” by just going slower with the HST? That must be what you guys were talking about “creeper speeds” , mph, etc.

Can I also get some opinions on forward rotary tillers or reversing? Hoping for a decent sized garden in 2023 after all the heavy yard work is done.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Usually "creeper speeds" refers to the low speed range in a geared transmission. Some geared transmissions have a special creeper range that is even lower.

Our old Yanmar had 4 creeper gears below low range. At full throttle in those gears you could get off and walk faster than the tractor was moving.

HST can be made to go slow with a load...but they also whine about it. I don't like to use my HST at full throttle & slow speed for extended use. It just feels wrong to me and I don't like the noise or all the extra HST heat.

Having said that, I haven't heard of a problem using HST that way. I don't do it myself, so can't speak from experience. But I hope we will hear from those who do. If you are going to do that low speed/high throttle high load HST work, keep the HST radiator clean and I'd recommend going up one step in tractor size. Not just for the HP, but for the stability and comfort.

I haven't ever done any garden tilling so can't help with that. Maybe we can learn something.
rScotty

 

[m1garand762]

This is great stuff. Thanks.

I went to the dealer yesterday and looked at the L series and the LX series.

The gear drive does indeed NOT have a live PTO. Could be a problem tilling and coming to a complete stop.

The HST has independent PTO. Makes more sense to me.

LX is just a little smaller, and has the mid PTO which will suit me better in the long run for a mower. Looks like the LX2610HSD would be a good fit for me. Since I need a tiller, loader +QA bucket, QA snow blade +left/right, and mower, cost is adding up quickly.

Our property hasn’t been plowed in the last 20 years according to aerial photos I could find. So this is stubborn ground. NE Ohio. I will charge the tires so the LX2610HSD with loader, bucket, tiller, and me would be about 3200 pounds. Guessing a BX is about 2400 and the L 4200.

I’m sure the LX3301HSD would be even better, but aside from the regen concerns, … my biggest fear is not having enough power. But I don’t want to buy too much. Upcharge is $4800.

Can I manage “forward tractor speed for tilling” by just going slower with the HST? That must be what you guys were talking about “creeper speeds” , mph, etc.

Can I also get some opinions on forward rotary tillers or reversing? Hoping for a decent sized garden in 2023 after all the heavy yard work is done.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Where at in ne Ohio. I’m in burton I can put you in contact with a salesman that will get you the best price within a few hundred miles

 

[LD1]

Wow this turned into an ugly gear vs hst debate.

Years ago I was in the same boat as you. I thought saving the HST upcharge and putting that money toward more power/bigger tractor was a smart move. Bought a gear l3400. Which is the old version of the L3901. Which DOES have live pto on the gear tractor.

Tractor did everything I wanted. But they aren't real efficient at loader work or mowing or anything that requires frequent direction change or precise control. HST more than makes up for a few HP less in it's ability to infinitely vary speed and direction changing.

I do question the tiller and pulverizer.

Those are expensive attachments. What use are you gonna have for them after the yard is done? If you are putting in a garden....or deer food plot...great. But if you are only wanting them to do your yard then be done...consider renting.

I think you are on the right track considering dropping down a model too. A mid mount mower is way better than a rear finish mower. I'm all for getting a big tractor to do more/faster. But in your case with 2 acres, and mowing....a B or LX would be perfect IMO

 

[dave9876]

@rScotty
Yeah, deadheading the pump or almost will generate lots of heat. Maybe there’s a bypass valve for pump protection. Feathering the pedal, going forward, is what I’m imagining for tearing up the ground the first time. Or for deeper annual plowing for the garden.

Looking at what it would take to tip the unit over, my swag shows it’s considerable. Much less of an upset condition that with the BX.

@m1gara62
Near Sterling OH, north of Wooster, east of Akron.

@LD1
Getting a nice, slightly used tractor with low hours will be hard. So putting the money into a new unit makes sense to me. And renting a tiller is definitely an option. I have a tiny Echo “weasel” which may suffice depending on the garden size.
Using the loader to move topsoil, rock, etc. with the back and forth and a gear tractor sounds tricky. Again, not a gear vs. HST debate, or a regen vs. not. Maybe I’ll see if I can talk with someone at Landpride in KS. https://www.landpride.com/ari/attach/lp/public/specs/311-785s.pdf

The RTA1258 takes 20-40 HP, and same for the RTR.

 

[Fallon]

I tilled up 4 acres of packed clay with my L3200. "Plowed" it with a subsoiler, then went over it with a tiller. Worked fine.

About to do it again this winter. This time the pasture got trashed being used as a parking lot by the company installing fiber into the neighborhood. They are paying for the seed. Luckily I had them trashing the weedy spot I never got grass properly started on. Was thinking about reseeding anyway.

A forward tiller takes less HP as it rolls with the tractor tires rather than against them. My forward rotation King Kutter has worked fine. Tines are about shot. But I've done a few pastures with it & a lot of arena maintenance for customers over the past 8 years of side work. Match tiller width to equal or a hair over tractor tire width & you'll be fine.

Smaller than a L will take longer, but will get the job done fine. Pulling a tiller will take more HP than traction. But if you have a HST you just push harder on the go pedal until RPMs drop a bit then let off a hair. Trivial to get the most HP out of a HST across varying conditions. The HST whine is a thing, but I don't find the annoying sound outweighs the other benefits. Get to a dealer, get on a machine & see what you think. See how it sounds lightly & heavily loaded.

 

[rScotty]

SNIP.....

The HST whine is a thing, but I don't find the annoying sound outweighs the other benefits. Get to a dealer, get on a machine & see what you think. See how it sounds lightly & heavily loaded.

What would you recommend for a load when you try one out at the dealer? The loudest HST whine I get is when I slow or stop on our sloped driveway and then try to start up again without first downshifting to take it out of high range. For that you would need some sort of incline at the dealer.

Does Kubota offer the HST+ transmission on any of the 30/40 hp tractors? That HST+ is simply the best transmission I've ever used - though I don't use it for field work. For plowing or tilling with HST, cruise control would be nice.

 

[Fallon]

What would you recommend for a load when you try one out at the dealer? The loudest HST whine I get is when I slow or stop on our sloped driveway and then try to start up again without first downshifting to take it out of high range. For that you would need some sort of incline at the dealer.

Does Kubota offer the HST+ transmission on any of the 30/40 hp tractors? That HST+ is simply the best transmission I've ever used - though I don't use it for field work. For plowing or tilling with HST, cruise control would be nice.

HST+ is only an option on the Grand Ls, 35-60hp. I have a L4060hstc (40hp Grand L) & ya, HST+ is worth it. Really it's the main reason I have a Kubota over any other brand. I can run it at a few feet per minute pulling a 3pt trenches at 3'. But the OP is looking at an economy machine. A normal HST is just fine, although you have to shift the clunky 3 speed tranny more. EVERY HST tractor has that clunky hard to shift 3 speed, Green, Orange, Korean, even my fancy HST+ machine. HST+ mostly just gets you a shift on the fly high & low "gear" ontop of the clunky 3 speed. Kind of a 6 speed. Generally you just leave it in medium gear & use the shift on the fly high/low.

I actually rarely use any other HST+ features. Occasionally cruise control, but not often. Stall guard gets funky at PTO speeds & I end up turning it off after I try it again occasionally. Auto throttle is kind of cool, but I go back to manual throttle & manual high/low control for some reason I can't really explain.

My L4060hstc is twice the tractor of a L3901 despite only having 1 more HP. Of course it also costs twice as much. Even a L3560 open station will be expensive & overkill for 2 acres. I'd have kept my L3200 for my 5 acres. But I started doing side work & wanted a cab. So I upgraded.

My dealer has a huge pile of dirt 30'+ high in the back of the lot. Great place to check stability, move some dirt or climb a hill. He definitely should work that HST in as many scenarios as you can & see if the noise is a deal breaker.

 

[Henry Island Guy]

Regardless of which size tractor you buy, the HST will likely have higher resale. If you are concerned about power, PTO and lifting capacity, you might consider a Kioti/Bobcat. The specs of the 25hp models rival the 33hp kubota. Features and cost are impressive.

 

[ljjhouser]

If you are concerned about hills and stability, then be sure to step back a little and take a look at the footprint of the tractor (with dealer with you). He should talk with you about the wheel rim options and ballast options. We have hills. I was concerned about that. I selected a wide footprint. That and ballast may help a lot. Also. unless you are only needed to mow acreage, I would be careful buying a tractor HP based on having only 2 acres. especially doing rock - loader - road maintaining work. Best wishes, Larry

 

[tractortrash]

I’d hire a farmer or excavator to prep and grade the soil. Might apply herbicide prior to disking, harrowing, etc. Test the soil and apply lime, fertilizer, etc based on the chemistry. Would use my resources to maintain the lawn after its seeded if this is a one time event.

 

[pokey1416]

I’m ok with HST whine - it’s less than the wife’s banter. I run the 7’ LPGS and the 6’ tiller at full throttle. Vary my speed with that dreaded treadle or I set cruise control.

 

[azbinder]

In regards to a forward tine vs. rear tine, the fwd style has a tendency to "push" the tractor and skip or bounce over the ground, even with an HST tractor. I have found the rear tine style leaves a smoother bed, especially if you slow your forward ground speed just a bit.

 

[Fxfymn413]

I have had both and I would never go back to a gear drive. Stand on it and steer works for me.

I use the cruise control when I am tilling. Set it at 2 or 3 mph and let it rip until you reach the end of the row.

You will not need the pulverizer if you get the tiller. If you take your time and don't mind making multiple passes the tiller will work the soil up to as fine as you want it.

As for HP and size; almost any CUT will do what you want to, it's just a matter of how much time you have. Time versus money, which is the equation we all have to work with, means you need to decide how much money to put into the purchase to lower the time spent doing the work you want to do since a smaller tractor will be slower than a larger one. A 4 foot tiller for a BX versus a 6 foot tiller for an L3301 for example.

 

[Little Red Tractor]

Having tilled with a gear tractor and a couple different HSTs I'll tell you that the HST is easier due to the infinate variation of grounds speed.

If you're worried about the loader givning stability problems on the slope, just dismount it. They all come off pretty quickly these days, or at least take the bucket off the rest of it. That'll take care of that problem. If you have a bucket, you should have loaded tires; that also lowers the center of gravity a bit for more stability.

Using a loader is another good reason for HST. Work the laoder for a day with a clutch and you'll understand.

Never had a tractor with regen, so I can't speak to that issue.

 

[Jstpssng]

Never had a tractor with regen, so I can't speak to that issue

The only time that's been a problem is when it wants to do a regen just after a cold weather start. I won't rev an engine which has just been started in 0' weather.

 

[dave9876]

Found several YouTube videos for 60 and 66" wide Landpride "reverse" tillers being run by tractors similar to the LX2610HSD, or power horsepower BX models. There seems to be no struggle at all. Guess that's because the operator is pacing the rig's forward speed... and load will increase with 1) forward speed, 2) more compacted soil, 3) deeper tilling depth, and 4) deflector chute being closed.

 

[Fallon]

Found several YouTube videos for 60 and 66" wide Landpride "reverse" tillers being run by tractors similar to the LX2610HSD, or power horsepower BX models. There seems to be no struggle at all. Guess that's because the operator is pacing the rig's forward speed... and load will increase with 1) forward speed, 2) more compacted soil, 3) deeper tilling depth, and 4) deflector chute being closed.

Massively. I have hard clay here & it's a struggle for a tiller to dig in at times (needs more weight on the tiller). When I hit what use to be an old horse arena covered on sand my travel speed could go up by 3x & still not load the engine like inching through the clay.

With a HST 85% of the time you xan fix mist of the issues by just letting off the go pedal most of the way.