Considering a smaller tractor to avoid Tier 4 emissions difficulties

[jeff9366]

Look into logging arches for pulling trees.

VIDEO: Log Arch

 

[CobyRupert]

Thanks again for all the input!

Really manhandling the trees I have some trees in the 30+" area that I would like to drag in fairly lengthy pieces. I'll also want to lift the near end as Jeff suggests (never seen that drawbar - will check it out; was considering a heavy duty boom). How long of a 30" bigleaf maple log do those of you with tree-dragging experience reckon I can pull? I'd like to cut some beams to use in timber framing or post and beam construction. I can quarter them as they get longer if I cannot pull them whole. This use (and pushing logs around with the loader or grapple) are one of the primary reasons I am looking beyond the SCUTs into the CUTs.

Weight on (rear) tires equals traction.

The question becomes how much can the 3 point hitch lift?
A 30" maple log has to weigh (wild *ss guess) 200 lbs per foot? ( I know it's a heck of a wrestle getting a 30" dia x 16" long piece to the splitter.)
If the CH2610's 3 pth can lift 1600 lbs (at 24" behind lift arm) , that means it might be able to lift 1/2 of a 16' log at best? You'd definitely would want weight on front and maybe more traction on back.

So does the weight / traction added by lifting 1/2 of the log overcome the drag resistance? The drag resistance of the log is a big unknown. I could probably slide it by hand on ice if I had cleats on my feat. Probably easy on snow if you have chains. But if it is in dirt and has a few limb stubs on the bottom that act like anchors......
There's no one answer.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Even my small BX will pull some big weights if I reduce the friction factor. I pushed 36" fir logs 16' long around several times. Also have rolled them using the FEL to get them rolling. If the majority of your planned use will be light work why spend $10K more for a bigger tractor that will be loafing doing majority jobs. Rent a bigger unit for the few big jobs. I carried madrone logs that were at my FEL max capacity fairly long distance, even up and down hills and drug even larger ones. Slow and careful, load down low, and forks tilted back max; is the key. I say go for the SCUT; evaluate the various models out there and their specs. I raised my Hyd pressure from 1700 PSI to 2000 PSI; expanded the capability a lot, almost 200# on the FEL.

LOL, Ron

 

[Freep]

I am prepared to quarter the logs prior to transport and/or to buy a far end (of the log) trailer of sorts (there's a specific type of log arch that's made for this, but I can't find it online at the moment) to support the far end off the ground as well. Thanks for the advice on the boom, Jeff. I had also (after checking out the PDF you sent me re: attachments in another thread) considered the possibility that a nice, heavy duty dirt scoop might work well for skidding a log. I could jack the near end up with a cant hook, back the dirt scoop under it, secure with chain, then afix something to the far end to serve as a sled (instead of the specialized log arch I mentioned - any suggestions here would be welcomed) to prevent dirt in the bark and excessive damage to the road/surface upon which it will be dragged. If I were to quarter it, I would probably use a chainsaw mill to quarter with some precision

I will likely buy all sorts of PTO driven attachments in future (splitter and chipper at the very least). I'm just looking to the relatively near-er future for the moment. I am, for example, debating getting a backhoe now or waiting to get it later. I'll surely need it eventually, so I kind of want to just get it with the tractor, but I can't think of any of my immediate projects that absolutely require it. Still... it would sure be handy to have.

I think y'all have generally talked me out of over-concern with emissions equipment. I'm still concerned, but the dealer made a recommendation that fastidious maintenance (e.g., ensuring clean filters) and regular mid-RPM usage can likely help to prevent or delay major problems. I'm still weighing options, as an extra 10 HP does sound useful. I am also, given the engine, convinced that the CK2610 may have more power to offer than it is rated for once the warranty expires should I find that need I need more. Cphilip's points are along the lines of my own thinking!

 

[ericm979]

If you have a chipper in your future, and you plan on chipping sizeable material, get enough HP. My 32 PTO HP (37 engine HP) is not enough for chipping larger material in my Woodmaxx 8" chipper. I have to throttle the feed rate down to very slow, and if it's 6" or above I have to stop and start the feed to let the tractor spin the chipper back up. Those times I wish I'd gotten a 4225 or even larger. When the warranty runs out I may see about uprating my engine to 42hp as the engine is the same, only the tuning is different. My dealer tells me the difference is in the fuel injectors (this is mechanical FI so I can see that being possible). We have a LOT of wood on our place and don't burn much. Even if we did I would still have far more than I could burn- I gave away about 10 cords last year. So I chip whatever I can. I got a chainsaw mill recently and may try making lumber out of some of the wood but a lot of it is eucalyptus and madrone and those tend to warp and crack as they dry.

 

[jeff9366]

I will likely buy PTO driven attachments in future. Splitter and chipper at the least.

Splitters are hydraulically operated on tractors. Tractor hydruallic flows are low. Better a 110 volt or faster 220 volt electric/hydraullic splitter; simpler, cheaper.
VIDEO: electric log splitters - YouTube
VENDERS: electric log splitters for sale - Google Search

PTO Chippers are fine year one. Year two and later too much maintenance. Always hazardous. Most "chippers" convert to "burners". My history. I had a high end Wallenstein.

Chippers work a little better with a single type of wood, for which the blade(s) can be optimally adjusted. Christmas tree farmers like them better than residential users.

My L3560 has 28 PTO horsepower. Not enough PTO power to make chipping attractive relative to burning.

 

[ericm979]

We can't burn in my county so I'm stuck making chipping work. I have about 40 hours on the chipper in a little over a year.

 

[LMychajluk]

I was looking at SCUTs and then CUTs, and was trying to avoid the emissions / regen issues, but also wanted to run a decent-size chipper/shredder like the Wallenstein BXM32 (3") because I want the mulch. I looked at the CK2610, and probably would've got it, but ended up with a CK3510se (taking delivery next week) mostly because of the PTO HP (~29 vs the 21.50 on the CK2610), and then all the other stuff on the -SE model just seemed like gravy for the price difference. But, in all honesty, I probably could've run the BXM32 just fine with the 21hp, but if I was looking at the BXM42 (4") or larger chipper I would defintely want more PTO hp, and I wouldn't even try >4" with a CK. Most of the other specs between the CKs are pretty close, incl. 3pt lift capacity.

As far as skidding, there are a few companies that make a dedicated 3pt skidder (ex - Earth and Turf 3 Point Hitch Log Skidder | DR Power Equipment), and the 'arch' the OP was mentioning was probably something like this - Rear support: ( Log hauler ) for sale in USA | Iron Baltic (google 'skidding trailer' for a few more ideas). But 30" sounds like a pretty big log (depending on length). BTW, came across this useful link - Timber and Lumber Calculators at WOODWEB

Edit - Maybe something like this - Tractor Arches T30 and T36 - LogRite Tools LLC

 

[RalphVa]

Greetings, All,

As the title suggests, I am leery of government mandated emissions equipment. It isn't an ideological thing: I just remember the 70s. I worry that the Tier 4 engines will potentially require significant expense over time due to emissions equipment. I find myself leaning toward a smaller tractor simply to avoid potential Tier 4 issues. Am I being silly?

My goal is to purchase a tractor that will last forever if I take care of it and require as few additional expenditures and/or trips to the dealer as possible.

The tractor will be a CK series Kioti, so the actual size and weight will be nearly identical. And I frankly am not sure I need more than 25HP, but when I look at the cost of a CK2610 and then consider the relatively small increase in price to the CK3510SE, I start rationalizing: They are the same size and one wouldn't take up more space than the other... and so forth. Plus, everyone keeps telling me to buy a bigger tractor than I need. (Note: I probably only need a little sub-compact, so the 2610 is already an upgrade in that sense). I suspect y'all know this phenomenon very well. The only thing keeping me away from the 3510 is the Tier 4 engine, and I wonder if I'm making too big a deal of it. What do you think?

I know I don't need more than about 18 or 19 hp. That's all I had the 1st time. Cannot get a JD with that low hp any more, and even the 1025R suffers from Tier 4 stuff with a high (1800) idle speed. Tried adjusting it down, and they make it **** near impossible to do. Now, my 2025R suffers some from the same thing, as its idle speed is 1300 rpm, but its okay at that.

Think there's a wide difference in manufacturer's abilities to meet emissions. Kubota, for instance, is still at 1,000 rpm idle speed.

My Isuzu engine on the generator probably would have no problems with emissions. I swear; you cannot tell it's a diesel except for the few seconds delay needed to start it. It does not sound like a diesel, and it does not smoke at all.

I'm wondering which ones have successfully built U joints with lifetime lubricant that won't fly apart like the one out of the engine on my 4010 did. Haven't read of others (other than JDs) having this problem. I only mention this because of your statement about wanting a tractor that if you take care of it, that it's last forever. Well, these particular U joints have no zerks and would be inaccessible if they did. Why not put flexible (like an old tire) discs in there in place of those U joints out of the engine? That's what our 1983 Benz had. Never had a failure on it in 25 years and 230k miles.

Ralph

 

[Freep]

I got a chainsaw mill recently and may try making lumber out of some of the wood but a lot of it is eucalyptus and madrone and those tend to warp and crack as they dry.

I am pretty stingy with wood - will only be chipping smaller pieces that are not worth burning. Good to know about chippers and HP, we will likely go with a pretty small one. Edit: Reading all the above, I may abandon chipping and splitting with the tractor. I kind of like splitting wood by hand, anyhow. Since I'm going to be doing a lot less manual labor once I get this tractor, I'll need something to keep me moving.

Those are also hard woods. Chainsaw milling is fun, but it's a lot of work, especially with wood like that. My first was a 18" standing dead post oak - it took me a year to recover and try something else. Approach it like a hobby and you'll enjoy it.

 

[jeff9366]

My goal is to purchase a tractor that will last forever if I take care of it and require as few additional expenditures and/or trips to the dealer as possible.

I am convinced that the CK2610 may have more power to offer than it is rated for once the warranty expires.

Difficult for me to imagine two thoughts more in conflict.

 

[Freep]

Difficult for me to imagine two thoughts more in conflict.

Touche.

I'm planning for every eventuality. It's hard to say how six years of tractor ownership will change my perspective, but it's good to have options. It would be a relatively inexpensive mid-life crisis.

 

[Freep]

I took delivery of a CK3510SE today. Many thanks to all for the input offered in this thread!

 

[LMychajluk]

Congrats! Mine's coming tomorrow!

 

[dadster4]

I took delivery of a CK3510SE today. Many thanks to all for the input offered in this thread!
Congrats! Mine's coming tomorrow!

Excellent choice!
Give us an update after a couple months of use :drink:

 

[LMychajluk]

Crap... Something just came up and I'll have to postpone taking delivery for a couple of weeks. I guess I'll just have to live vicariously through Freep until then....

 

[Industrial Toys]

I thought the depth of Crisis in Mid Life was always gauged by the level of financial stupidity.

 

[Jerry 173rd]

Howdy...Abit confused here.I just bought a kioti ck2610.I was told because it is under 25hp that it is emissions exempt....no cat. or Regen.
crap. Am I wrong?...One posting said,
no cat. Now you're saying it does, so does the manual. Only 2hrs on it.
Anyone know for certain?

 

[hornett22]

Howdy...Abit confused here.I just bought a kioti ck2610.I was told because it is under 25hp that it is emissions exempt....no cat. or Regen.
crap. Am I wrong?...One posting said,
no cat. Now you're saying it does, so does the manual. Only 2hrs on it.
Anyone know for certain?

Ck 2610 has no emissions.

 

[jyoutz]

Funny what some call silly, I call very wise. And why should we have complicated, expensive crap, that the manufacturers have no handle on and feel no obligation for, rammed down our throats?

Why not simply a nice, low hour tier zero tractor?

I predict that in the no so far distant future, these computer tractors will become a GIANT headache. Look at the myriad of threads about all the tractor problems with non electronic issues. What is going to happen when the connectors, wiring and sensors start giving trouble, particularly those that were not made with the absolute highest quality materials. Certain brands, yet to be determined will become worthless except for scrap and parts.

People said this about cars and trucks 30 years ago, yet modern vehicles are more reliable than those 1970s vehicles that I learned to drive and repair.