chain performace

[ericm979]

Any forestry supplier like Baileys will carry it. But I'm surprised that it's not available locally as it's pretty common.

 

[John_Mc]

Any forestry supplier like Baileys will carry it. But I'm surprised that it's not available locally as it's pretty common.

I'm sure it is available somewhere in the St Louis area, it's just knowing where to shop for it.

 

[RandyT]

Any forestry supplier like Baileys will carry it. But I'm surprised that it's not available locally as it's pretty common.

Depending on the customer base that the dealer has they may or may not stock full chisel, or may not sell it to a consumer grade customer.. No professional customers they most likely will only stock semi-chisel or be sold semi-chisel. It is an ansi code safety thing. Me in my case, other than the 3/8 lp I don't stock semi-chisel and only stock full chisel in the .325 and full skip, full chisel in the large 3/8 in .050 and .063 gauge chains, and .063 in .404

 

[ericm979]

I could see only stocking anti kickback "safety" chain if you don't have pro customers, or only selling safety chain to non professional customers. When I go to my local dealer and ask for a chain without specifying, they will give me safety chain. But as far as I know chisel/semi chisel does not affect safely, only cutting speed and how long the chain stays sharp.

 

[RandyT]

I could see only stocking anti kickback "safety" chain if you don't have pro customers, or only selling safety chain to non professional customers. When I go to my local dealer and ask for a chain without specifying, they will give me safety chain. But as far as I know chisel/semi chisel does not affect safely, only cutting speed and how long the chain stays sharp.

I don't think I have ever seen safety ansi standard chain in full chisel. Closest might by the Oregon Vanguard chain with the wide curved depth gauges.

Edited to make a technical correction

 

[ericm979]

All the safety chain I have is full chisel: Stihl 63PS3 (3/8 LP) and RS3 (3/8). That's what came on a couple saws (plus I bought more, especially the 63PS3 which is really good). Maybe it's a regional thing?

 

[AnotherBueller]

I'm sure it is available somewhere in the St Louis area, it's just knowing where to shop for it.

Like RandyT said everything is semi chisel safety chain.
Randy would you give the the name of your local dealer?
If necessary Effingham isn't THAT far away.

 

[RandyT]

Like RandyT said everything is semi chisel safety chain.
Randy would you give the the name of your local dealer?
If necessary Effingham isn't THAT far away.

I go by Illinois Engine. About 80 miles east of St. Louis.

 

[Skeans1]

Like RandyT said everything is semi chisel safety chain.
Randy would you give the the name of your local dealer?
If necessary Effingham isn't THAT far away.

Look up Oregon 73 and 75V they are a low kickback full chisel chain, not that many years ago I could get square chisel in safety chain.

Oregon 73/75V are the same as Vanguard.

 

[RandyT]

Look up Oregon 73 and 75V they are a low kickback full chisel chain, not that many years ago I could get square chisel in safety chain.

Oregon 73/75V are the same as Vanguard.

Sold a couple new Dolmars a few years back that came from the factory with that chain. That is the only full chisel safety chain that I have seen. Stihl, Husky could have their own version I don't know.

 

[John_Mc]

Perhaps we should define what we mean by "safety chain", as there are varying degrees.

There is the safety chain with the huge extra bumpers which often comes on saws sold by the big box stores. When someone says "safety chain", this is the first thing that comes to mind for me. (I absolutely hate this stuff. It cuts slow, and it doesn't bore cut worth a damn.)

Then there is the pro-grade chain which incorporates some safety features, such as the Oregon LPX series. They have a ramp on the driver link which come up next to, but separate from the depth gauge. The ramp reduces kickback energy, and some folks do refer it it as a safety chain, but this is not technically a "safety chain": Oregon still calls it a "yellow chain". I find the performance of this chain not all that different than their chain without these ramps. It cuts acceptably fast when properly sharpened, it bore cuts well, and it's a smooth cutting chain - not much vibration during cutting.

Then there is the Oregon LGX chain (and their EXL chain, which is Oregon's intended replacement for LGX). About the only kickback reduction feature is the fact that the depth gauge itself is ramped a bit. No one that I'm aware of refers to this a s a safety chain or a low-kickback chain. It cuts very well both bore cutting and regular cross cutting. It perhaps may not be quite as smooth in operation as the LGX style, but if there is a difference, I don't really notice it. (It might be more noticeable on older saws with less vibration dampening features?)

My only real complaint with some of the LPX and LGX series chains I've purchased is that in Oregon's eagerness to provide their claimed cuts well "out of the box" performance, they don't seem to follow their own chain sharpening guidelines. The chain often comes with far too much hook on the tooth. It does cut well right out of the box, which probably provides some "wow" factor to some users. However, it is simply not a durable geometry: that exaggerated hook with it's narrow point wears quickly. I've also found that sometimes their depth gauges are taller than their own spec. (Perhaps this is in an attempt to prevent that exaggerated hook from being too "grabby" or aggressive for unsuspecting users?) After a sharpen or two to bring it closer to the geometry that their sharpening instructions actually call for, the combination of cutting speed and durability suits me much better.

 

[cqaigy2]

Thanks for the picts. I'd noticed that extra little ramp on the chain, but didn't really think about why it was there. The top one is definitely "safety" chain. A while back, went over to help neighbor clear some storm droppings and picked up their saw. It didn't cut worth a darn, and like you said, a big NO on the plunge cut. I went back and got my saw.

 

[Skeans1]

Perhaps we should define what we mean by "safety chain", as there are varying degrees.

There is the safety chain with the huge extra bumpers which often comes on saws sold by the big box stores. When someone says "safety chain", this is the first thing that comes to mind for me. (I absolutely hate this stuff. It cuts slow, and it doesn't bore cut worth a damn.)

View attachment 729861


Then there is the pro-grade chain which incorporates some safety features, such as the Oregon LPX series. They have a ramp on the driver link which come up next to, but separate from the depth gauge. The ramp reduces kickback energy, and some folks do refer it it as a safety chain, but this is not technically a "safety chain": Oregon still calls it a "yellow chain". I find the performance of this chain not all that different than their chain without these ramps. It cuts acceptably fast when properly sharpened, it bore cuts well, and it's a smooth cutting chain - not much vibration during cutting.
View attachment 729863


Then there is the Oregon LGX chain (and their EXL chain, which is Oregon's intended replacement for LGX). About the only kickback reduction feature is the fact that the depth gauge itself is ramped a bit. No one that I'm aware of refers to this a s a safety chain or a low-kickback chain. It cuts very well both bore cutting and regular cross cutting. It perhaps may not be quite as smooth in operation as the LGX style, but if there is a difference, I don't really notice it. (It might be more noticeable on older saws with less vibration dampening features?)
View attachment 729868

My only real complaint with some of the LPX and LGX series chains I've purchased is that in Oregon's eagerness to provide their claimed cuts well "out of the box" performance, they don't seem to follow their own chain sharpening guidelines. The chain often comes with far too much hook on the tooth. It does cut well right out of the box, which probably provides some "wow" factor to some users. However, it is simply not a durable geometry: that exaggerated hook with it's narrow point wears quickly. I've also found that sometimes their depth gauges are taller than their own spec. (Perhaps this is in an attempt to prevent that exaggerated hook from being too "grabby" or aggressive for unsuspecting users?) After a sharpen or two to bring it closer to the geometry that their sharpening instructions actually call for, the combination of cutting speed and durability suits me much better.

The only one I’d add that you missed John is the Vanguard style chain which is completely different then what you have posted there. Vanguard is more of a safety chain vs reduced kickback chain like you have posted.

 

[ericm979]

The key feature to the safety chain that's the first in John's post is the bumper that extends back from the rivet. When the chain bends around the nose of the sprocket the end of the bumper sticks out above the depth gauge so the tooth cuts less (or not at all). That reduces kickback from hitting something with the nose of the saw but of course won't do anything for other types of kickback like the chain getting pinched.

Stihl's safety chain has the same kind of bumper that sticks out behind the rivet but it's much smaller elsewhere. The Oregon one is huge.

 

[RandyT]

Perhaps we should define what we mean by "safety chain", as there are varying degrees.

There is the safety chain with the huge extra bumpers which often comes on saws sold by the big box stores. When someone says "safety chain", this is the first thing that comes to mind for me. (I absolutely hate this stuff. It cuts slow, and it doesn't bore cut worth a damn.)

View attachment 729861


Then there is the pro-grade chain which incorporates some safety features, such as the Oregon LPX series. They have a ramp on the driver link which come up next to, but separate from the depth gauge. The ramp reduces kickback energy, and some folks do refer it it as a safety chain, but this is not technically a "safety chain": Oregon still calls it a "yellow chain". I find the performance of this chain not all that different than their chain without these ramps. It cuts acceptably fast when properly sharpened, it bore cuts well, and it's a smooth cutting chain - not much vibration during cutting.
View attachment 729863


Then there is the Oregon LGX chain (and their EXL chain, which is Oregon's intended replacement for LGX). About the only kickback reduction feature is the fact that the depth gauge itself is ramped a bit. No one that I'm aware of refers to this a s a safety chain or a low-kickback chain. It cuts very well both bore cutting and regular cross cutting. It perhaps may not be quite as smooth in operation as the LGX style, but if there is a difference, I don't really notice it. (It might be more noticeable on older saws with less vibration dampening features?)
View attachment 729868

My only real complaint with some of the LPX and LGX series chains I've purchased is that in Oregon's eagerness to provide their claimed cuts well "out of the box" performance, they don't seem to follow their own chain sharpening guidelines. The chain often comes with far too much hook on the tooth. It does cut well right out of the box, which probably provides some "wow" factor to some users. However, it is simply not a durable geometry: that exaggerated hook with it's narrow point wears quickly. I've also found that sometimes their depth gauges are taller than their own spec. (Perhaps this is in an attempt to prevent that exaggerated hook from being too "grabby" or aggressive for unsuspecting users?) After a sharpen or two to bring it closer to the geometry that their sharpening instructions actually call for, the combination of cutting speed and durability suits me much better.

First picture is true ansi safety chain with the raised tie straps that block the cutter as it goes around the bar nose.

The second picture is not safety chain since the bumps don't block the cutter as the go around the nose. Their purpose is more to reduce chain vibration than anything else.

the last chain is true full chisel non safety chain. and the issue that you talk about with the hook is called X-grind. Makes it sharper out of the box, but could reduce durability. And is not achievable outside of the factory grind. Nobody makes files or grinding wheels to duplicate it. I won't argue about the depth gages since variation could be possible from then factory.

 

[Skeans1]

First picture is true ansi safety chain with the raised tie straps that block the cutter as it goes around the bar nose.

The second picture is not safety chain since the bumps don't block the cutter as the go around the nose. Their purpose is more to reduce chain vibration than anything else.

the last chain is true full chisel non safety chain. and the issue that you talk about with the hook is called X-grind. Makes it sharper out of the box, but could reduce durability. And is not achievable outside of the factory grind. Nobody makes files or grinding wheels to duplicate it. I won't argue about the depth gages since variation could be possible from then factory.

Stihl makes a hex file for the new style chains that have came out other then that I’m not sure of anyone else who does.

 

[RandyT]

@Skeans1 I wonder if Stihl will come out with a special grinding wheel for dealers to sharpen the new Hex chains, or are they going to be like the Oregon X-grind. Or will Stihl dealers treat Hex grind like square ground full chisel, and not be available except in select markets.

 

[Skeans1]

@Skeans1 I wonder if Stihl will come out with a special grinding wheel for dealers to sharpen the new Hex chains, or are they going to be like the Oregon X-grind. Or will Stihl dealers treat Hex grind like square ground full chisel, and not be available except in select markets.

I think both are available to all markets, I’ve husqvarna c83 and it’s not as quick as what I like my square to be. I’d be interested in what the wheel will look like because you’d need some interesting geometry on it to make it look like that as well as possible a larger wheel like the old Silvey’s ran.

 

[John_Mc]

The only one I’d add that you missed John is the Vanguard style chain which is completely different then what you have posted there. Vanguard is more of a safety chain vs reduced kickback chain like you have posted.

I've only used a Vanguard chain once. What a strange depth gauge. I did not really like it.

 

[John_Mc]

The second picture is not safety chain since the bumps don't block the cutter as the go around the nose. Their purpose is more to reduce chain vibration than anything else.

As noted in my description, Oregon does not consider their LPX series to be "safety chain". As you noted, the extra ramp next to the depth gauge does help reduce vibration. However, it does in fact also reduce kickback energy should the "kickback zone" at the tip of the bar come in contact with a log. ORegon specifically lists that "Bumper drive link" as a kickback reduction feature. From the description in their brochure on LPX chain: "• Ramped shape helps reduce kickback energies • Smooth cutting action"

If you imagine that chain bent around the radius at the tip of he bar, that ramp fills some of the gap between the teeth, pushing the chain a bit further out of the wood than it would be otherwise.

the last chain is true full chisel non safety chain. and the issue that you talk about with the hook is called X-grind. Makes it sharper out of the box, but could reduce durability. And is not achievable outside of the factory grind. Nobody makes files or grinding wheels to duplicate it. I won't argue about the depth gages since variation could be possible from then factory.

I remember reading something about X-grind a while ago, but Oregon's descriptions of the LPX and LGX chains do not mention it. IS that something that is associated with their newer EXL chain?

BTW, the extra hook I was speaking of is not shown in the photos. It can be duplicated by just sinking the round file a little too deep when sharpening.