Insomnia

[OldMcDonald]

You have a sharp mind for someone who has been farming all his life. I am not saying that farmers are dullards. They are pretty good at what they do on the land. Your grasp of things, however, is astute across a wide range of subjects.

I am an educated peasant. I suspect you know gey few farmers for many others are also educated peasants.

I know more than a few who can match my aged 11 scholarship to a government free grammar school specifically for those who achieved that scholarship; a University degree, in my case majoring in law and accountancy. Also the necessity to understand crop nutrient requirements and animal feed needs - such as the following paragraph from a paper I wrote two years ago:

I do not profess knowledge of medicines for humans, having extremely rarely taken any. I do have a good knowledge of basic human nutrition and an extensive knowledge of animal nutrition. My wife studied human nutrition as part of her qualification as a Home Economist – accepting it was a long time ago. For 50 years we have formulated farm animal rations and are well aware of the need to maintain correct ratios of minerals; minimal daily quantities of vitamins and minerals; toxicity possibilities of excess intake and the antagonism between various vitamins and minerals. Obviously all this knowledge is not stored in our heads and we keep up to date on developments or past ideas being challenged.

....................................

There is no reason why you should know that a huge number of farmers are well educated. We do not shout out about it. We just produce the food that keeps the rest of the planet alive. You buy it from a supermarket. You do not need to know who produces it any more than I need to know who produced the computer on which I am typing this response. That is the way of the world. Everybody is important. There is an old saying about a horse losing its shoe which resulted in the loss of a Kingdom.

 

[Molalla1]

OMcD . . . most farmers are as you know are very intelligent.

 

[sree251]

I am an educated peasant.

You are not a peasant, Mac. Neither was Jesus a carpenter. Carpenters cannot turn water into wine.

A peasant is an uneducated person, of low social status, who tills the soil to eke out a living. Insomnia is not a problem for the peasant who is too tuckered out after the day's labor. He sleeps like the dead till dawn. Insomnia is a disease of the gentry, that class above the peasant and beneath nobility.

People suffer sleep disorder. Other animals don't; not even the horse who sleeps standing on its legs.

 

[OldMcDonald]

You are not a peasant, Mac. Neither was Jesus a carpenter. Carpenters cannot turn water into wine.

A peasant is an uneducated person, of low social status, who tills the soil to eke out a living. Insomnia is not a problem for the peasant who is too tuckered out after the day's labor. He sleeps like the dead till dawn. Insomnia is a disease of the gentry, that class above the peasant and beneath nobility.

People suffer sleep disorder. Other animals don't; not even the horse who sleeps standing on its legs.

I am a peasant, or at least was. Also an atheist and do not believe water can be made into wine.

For most of my life I have exactly fitted your definition - which is just about word for word that of my "English" English language dictionary, with the exception of the word uneducated.

Consequently a peasant is not necessarily an uneducated person, although I admit that in addition to knowing farmers who are highly educated (and some being very rich, not peasants) I also know many who were undeducated, particularly my neighbours in Portugal, a number of whom could not read or write because of their lack of education. All of them were in the same position as me - peasants ekeing out a living.

I have had neighbours in England, Australia and Scotland who had the bearest minimum of education. Some of them were not peasants either, they were well off in monetary terms.

I would not generalise about insomnia and the class of person who is affected by it. I am sure in actual cases it is not a class conscious sentient affectation that attacks only a certain social level of person.

You are wrong about horses. In a 24 hour "day" equines sleep less than most species, adults for perhaps 3 hours, but very young foals, like most very young animals sleep a lot longer. They can sleep standing up, but they lie down for most of their deeper sleep requirements. I have heard of other animals that actually do have sleep disorders. Talk to a veterinary about it for more info.

 

[tradosaurus]

I am a peasant, or at least was. Also an atheist and do not believe water can be made into wine.

There are no atheists. Everyone has a belief (without evidence) of some sort. Some believe in evolution, some in the Trinity, some in an expanding universe.

 

[MossRoad]

There are no atheists. Everyone has a belief (without evidence) of some sort. Some believe in evolution, some in the Trinity, some in an expanding universe.

Strictly on a definition of words issue, Atheists don't have a belief. That's the exact definition of the word.

 

[CalG]

Strictly on a definition of words issue, Atheists don't have a belief. That's the exact definition of the word.

Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll have an afternoon nap! ;-)

 

[MossRoad]

Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll have an afternoon nap! ;-)

I believe you.

 

[BravoXray]

There are no atheists. Everyone has a belief (without evidence) of some sort. Some believe in evolution, some in the Trinity, some in an expanding universe.

We are all atheists, some just believe in one less god than others.
Don't remember who's quote that was.

Evolution and the expanding universe are hardly religions, and are a little more proven by the scientific method than any religion is by any method.

 

[OldMcDonald]

There are no atheists. Everyone has a belief (without evidence) of some sort. Some believe in evolution, some in the Trinity, some in an expanding universe.

This thread is being led even further away from the OP's starter.

Of course there are atheists. It is a word used to describe people like me who do not believe in any gods or spiritual beings. The word itself actually means someone without belief in god or gods. In other words someone without religion. It is a very simple concept.

I am sure there is no reason why an atheist could not believe in evolution - did you know that Darwin was a religious man and did not agree that evolution and Creation are mutually exclusive?

 

[Diggin It]

Every hour. Didn't miss a one. Even if only long enough to glance at the clock.

 

[tradosaurus]

We are all atheists, some just believe in one less god than others.
Don't remember who's quote that was.

Evolution and the expanding universe are hardly religions, and are a little more proven by the scientific method than any religion is by any method.

Absolutely no scientific evidence for evolution or expanding universe. In fact the evidence points to the opposite. So yes, "atheists" BELIEVE in ideas that have no proof.

 

[BravoXray]

Absolutely no scientific evidence for evolution or expanding universe. In fact the evidence points to the opposite. So yes, "atheists" BELIEVE in ideas that have no proof.

Apparently your definition of proof is considerably different than the generally accepted defnition. Just because you don't believe in evolution or the expanding universe hardly invalidates their basis in fact.

 

[gstrom99]

Or at least randomly odd and disconnected hours of sleep. Some nights several straight hours. Other nights an hour or two here and there. Sometimes a few daytime naps. No consistent pattern from one to the next.

Oh well.

Get a sleep study. Talk to your doctor. You may have sleep apnea and need a CPAP. I've had mine for 6 years and sleep MUCH better with it.

 

[MossRoad]

Get a sleep study. Talk to your doctor. You may have sleep apnea and need a CPAP. I've had mine for 6 years and sleep MUCH better with it.

Yep. Even if he doesn't have apnea, it's a good thing to eliminate it. I did a sleep study. No apnea, I just snore a lot. But the wife and kid were convinced I'd die in my sleep from it. Good to find out. If I'd have had apnea, I'd have never known.

 

[not2old]

Could it be that I'm not the only person who can't stand the stuff?

I'm guessing it was in the early fifties that Mountain Dew was introduced to Canada. My first mouthful cured me from ever trying it again.

 

[Diggin It]

Not any of that. Largely stress. I guess.

Very little sleep last night. Got an hour or two mid-to-late evening. Wide awake from 10 or 11 until 3 or 4. Lids just wouldn't close. Another hour or two after that.

Probably nap out a few hours today.

It'll build up and I'll get one of those rare 8-10 hour sessions someday.

 

[Outinstickssnafu]

Light anxious sleeper here as well. Made worse when a tool figured to exploit that from mid 2016, where for 3 years my sleep was at most 2.5 hours, more typical only 2 hours. From 2020 I got more 2.5 hours but also had to suffer especially days that I had to really put in a big day no matter how bad the pain was, yeah those nights often went were I was lucky to get even 1.5 hours, more often no sleep.

I used to use earplugs up until a decade ago, but eventually they took a toll on my ears. I also have tinnitus, so a fan runs to help but loosing the ability to hear those high frequencies in real life has made it much better to tolerate once the brain started to ignore the noise and high pitched cicadas, though it still makes it hard to hear a conversation.

For sleep issues when I was just early 20s I hurt my neck ... and my sleep rhythm went pear shaped. I used to read science mags (and understand though moving into end 90s much of it was becoming far too fluffy for my liking) quite a lot. To my surprise I discovered how melatonin really works, it's not only eyes and brain for melatonin release. In fact the pathway involves transiting the spinal cord ... mine was inflamed for a couple of years after an accident ... taking melatonin help me reset my sleep rhythm and let my body get some good sleep. I didn't overuse it, and went periods without until needing to reset once more.

The take away, those with damaged necks / spine may benefit greatly from melatonin. (Note: good grade of melatonin, there's a lot of rubbish on the market.)

I used to do ok with 5 hours but probably would have been better off in my younger days with more.

For normal sleep issues, there's lot of literature out there, some of it's outdated -- for example the blue light idea which a couple of years ago was disproved.

What I've often read on the matter, the top could possibly work methods are establish a sleep rhythm, and use association, like only use the actual sleeping area for sleeping, so the mind gets to associate lying on the bed with sleeping. Of course that really doesn't work for me, because once I stir, unless I'm in a relaxed mood, that's it, I just lie there for the night ... I tell myself it's letting my body rest even if my brain is tired.

That old "if you're working hard" chestnut / nugget ... lol. Long story short, when one start to notice their reactions speeds are astounding slow, much of the day is headaches and suffering muscles (esp neck) that are in so much pain that maybe under normal circumstances one would present to a doctor, and despite starting to stick to simple manual chores ... basically working a day knowing in days past, one would have struggled to get shoes off at end of day, and after sitting down often dropping off before thinking about super or getting cleaned up ... and yet, despite how it was, be still that tired, but also in pain, knowing that if one did close their eyes and drift off, should they be unlucky enough to wake after a couple of hours ... the next day would repeat the same as the one before.

 

[Diggin It]

Last night was pretty decent for a change.

My insurance company has a thing with CVS where we can order stuff shipped to the house at no cost. I ordered one of the finger clamp pulse oximeter thingamabobs that would normally cost in the $40 range. If it's accurate, it's showing a pulse varying in the 60-90 range and O2 in the 90s, variable based on time of day. The included booklet with charts and graphs says that's normal.


I also got a $50 wrist BP doodad (no cost to me) and the pulse on that one matches.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Not any of that. Largely stress. I guess.

Very little sleep last night. Got an hour or two mid-to-late evening. Wide awake from 10 or 11 until 3 or 4. Lids just wouldn't close. Another hour or two after that.

Probably nap out a few hours today.

Last night was pretty decent for a change.

Why do you worry about sleep? Serious question. Why not just accept that you sleep as you do?

I normally wake twice whilst in bed, sometimes once, and can be awake for a couple of hours, not always, can be awake just a short time. I reckon I still get a total of 9 hours most nights - in bed up to 11 hours. Since I retired from farming last year at 77 I get up when I feel like it, not when I have to.

I do not see why anybody should be bothered about having apnoea either. I have slept with a CPAP machine for close on 30 years. I stopped snoring the night I first used it. My wife was pleased, and still is.