OP
We tried no moderation in friendly politics. It was out of control. If members can't be respectful, they should take it somewhere else like fb.
Proposed update to front porch forum rules
- Thread starter Muhammad
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5030
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2 platforms I never visit. One is FB and the other CL. FB to me is nothing but a busy body site and CL is loaded with spammers.
I believe it would work fine with moderate moderation once the rules of engagement were understood. Has to be consistent moderation however which I will say the main site is lacking today. It wasn't always that way. You know I've been here many years so I've watched pretty close. Why you are loosing your poster base. People are going elsewhere to other forums. Unlike back in the beginning, this isn't the only game in town. Sure you get new posters all the time but they come on here, ask a question , get an answer and leave and never come back. That and you have way too many sub forums. Maybe I'm somewhat prejudiced but this site was better back then when you had just a few sub forums. Interestingly, I'm a long time member of another forum that has a political and news section and it experiences little of the negativity I see on here that you have to quash. Think I told you via pm what that forum was and who owned it as well so you could go look at it. They have a tremendous amount of traffic as well as long standing poster participation. I don't moderate on it but I know 3 of the moderators personally and none of them has to play referee constantly either. The rules of engagement are simple and you break the rules, you are gone and no second chance. Has to be an egregious infraction however. Minor bumps are dealt with, with a warning PM and nothing more. The second time earns you a not so nice PM and the 3rd time earns a forever expulsion. There is way too much divisiveness today as it is.
Everyone slips up once in a while, even you. No one is perfect except the Lord and he don't post on here anyway....lol
Everyone has to agree to a users agreement on that site and here, when they first join. I'm pretty sure very few members have read it however. The just click accept and continue on. I have read it a long time ago.
I will commend you for keeping this site privately held all these years. That in itself is a major achievement in my view. Lots of sites have gone by the wayside or been bought out in the past few years.
Again, I believe it would work so long as moderation is consistent and unwavering and those that are habitual violators are removed. The old 3 strikes and you are out philosophy at work and it does work I might add. My 2 cents for what it's worth.
5030
Rest in Peace
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I know where you are (other forum), I read your posts on there and you probably read mine as well. Unlike you, I use a different screen name there. What I mean by consistent and inconsistent moderation. You don't find inconsistent moderation over there, least I don't see it anyway.
OP
Always appreciate the feedback.
It's tough to compare a gun forum to a tractor forum but as you see we're trying to improve. Not because of losing members since that isn't why I make decisions but rather trying to serve the members that are here.
jyoutz
Super Star Member
I see comments from some of the members who say they left TBN on another tractor forum. This doesn’t apply to all, but many of them are perpetual whiners who criticize everyone who doesn’t agree with them. This forum is improved by their absence.
jyoutz
Super Star Member
I like the rules, even though I know that we will get lots of posts complaining that every problem is due to current politicians in office. Even though a specific problem is worldwide and domestic policies have little effects on worldwide problems. People do need to take a more reasoned approach and look at an issue beyond the US borders. Inflation is one example. US politicians have little or no effect on worldwide prices or demand.Based on ongoing feedback and reviewing moderation guidelines, I have come up with a proposal to update the current forum rules for the front porch.
Since TBN is more than just a technical forum, we can't ignore the fact that member do enjoy discussion of topics outside of tractors, be it talk about a chainsaw or a dispute with a neighbor. The diversity in viewpoints I mentioned really shines when those topics come up, so we shouldn't try to get everybody to fit into the same opinion boxes. That's why we have a lot of sections that are not tractor-specific. Many other communities follow a similar model for branching beyond the main topic.
My goal in shaping forum rules is to create an environment and a community that is both beneficial and enjoyable to the members. Whether you're new or have been here for 20 years, your contributions are as valuable as the next member, and from my perspective appreciated enough to want to see everybody continue to benefit from those contributions so long as you wish to make them.
In principle, I want to work on moving a shift toward corrective moderation and not punitive, simply because I think it's within all of us to coexist peacefully---at least on a forum.
My proposed update to the current rules for the front porch would look something like this:
- Front Porch Forum remains member-only and not viewable to external search engines.
- Remove all topic restrictions in Front Porch with the exceptions of:
*Adult content
*Illegal activity
*Specific legal, medical, or financial advice ("what worked for me" is fine vs "you can cure cancer with _____" is not fine)
*Trolling/trash post threads (Example: "Anybody who voted for Mickey Mouse is an idiot")
- Limiting each topic to one thread (for example one covid-19 thread, one presidential election thread, etc).
- Inactive threads purged every 30 days to prevent the forum from becoming a million posts of chat.
-Appoint 5-6 new moderators for the front porch only, with the objective of keeping the forum friendly and respectful. The task of reminding members to be respectful and friendly to one another regardless of agreement would fall on these moderators. "Agree to disagree" is a perfectly reasonable sentiment. Name calling, insults, and trolling is not allowed. Moderators would have the ability to soft delete messages that break the general forum rules for politeness or the topic rules above. Moderators would lose their privileges if they delete posts that do not break the stated rules.
- Members would lose access to the front porch if they repeatedly break the rules, mainly relating to conduct.
- Front porch will be excluded from "today's posts" so you would need to access it through the direct forum link.
Let me know your thoughts and feedback, and if you would support this new direction for the front porch.
JDZ735M
Gold Member
Do the moderation yourself and you will have less problems to deal with. Too many mods defeats the purpose.
Torvy
Super Member
I appreciate the effort that goes in to making a useful online community. Impossible to do it alone as you need work-life balance like anyone else.
The one thing I would try to add is some explanation for everyone when something goes offsides. Deleted posts and posters does not educate the rest of us. It is not just about correcting that individual's post. "Mickey Mouse's post about Politician A, was deleted because it was effectively an unpaid campaign ad.". (or whatever)
Even better, to me, would be to quote the offending post but 'bleep' enough to make it clear why..."******** was the worst president ever and anyone who voted for ******* is a *******".
sea2summit
Super Member
Honestly I’m kind of shocked the political spectrum is so different between the two. I’ve learned a lot more about “political” thought processes so it’s interesting. I think the main difference though is feelings, a few thin skinned or just plain looking for something to be offended over causes a lot of friction. Perfect example in the groan thread yesterday, for me if I don’t like something I just ignore it but someone decided they wanted to let everyone know they were offended. Hard road to hoe as an owner/moderator when someone looks to the site to protect their feelings rather than personal ownership of their feelings/actions.
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sea2summit
Super Member
Lol, how many posts per day on this forum?
What he said, with the exception that something as simple as "edited by mod" is the bare minimum for any edit or deletion not by the original poster and should be enough for most situations. It shows respect to the poster, and to the rest of us who take the time to post, to not have what was said removed without a trace. It helps keep the thread from being too disjointed or subsequent posts from being confusingly out of context. Also for those of us with declining memory, when posts disappear without a trace it leaves one to wonder if the post was removed or if it was misremembered in a different thread, etc. which can be frustrating.
Otherwise the rules sound good. Thank you for giving it a try.
sea2summit
Super Member
Maybe I’m weird but for the first example, if there are reasons (Probably with references) I actually enjoy pondering on it. Sometimes it changes my mind, sometimes it changes my thinking, sometimes it reinforces my personal opinions but always helpful, to me anyway.
bdhsfz6
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A good first step IMO.
Additional changes can be made in the future if necessary.
Additional changes can be made in the future if necessary.
Root Cause
Platinum Member
Muhammad,
I suggest that the moderators have a template ready where they could be delete/copy/paste an appropriate example of a rule being broken to replace an offensive post.
That educates everyone and it is a few mouse clicks without having to give it a lot of thought.
Asking the mods to redact a post will be time-consuming. Unconsciencely, they will decide whether the post is so offensive, it warrants the efforts. And that will be interpreted by the public as showing favoritism or bias.
I suggest that the moderators have a template ready where they could be delete/copy/paste an appropriate example of a rule being broken to replace an offensive post.
That educates everyone and it is a few mouse clicks without having to give it a lot of thought.
Asking the mods to redact a post will be time-consuming. Unconsciencely, they will decide whether the post is so offensive, it warrants the efforts. And that will be interpreted by the public as showing favoritism or bias.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Im torn. Its either over moderation or under moderation. But the current level of moderation is not working IMO.
I have heard/seen several times moderators say they dont have time to make edits, or only remove offending comments, or (either publicly or privately) notify people of infractions. And that its "easier" to just delete or lock whole posts/threads.
Deleting whole threads or posts based on one or two words that are an infraction certainly comes across as over-moderation. Same goes for deleting some posts because of a specific infraction while other posts with the same infraction remain. Maybe moderators were only informed of the one? Maybe they missed the other? Or maybe there truly is some bias? But regardless of the "why"....it comes across as bias and unfair and over-moderation.
However.....if the moderators are constantly complaining and taking the "easy" route by just deleting entire posts, rather than actively trying to moderate and steer a topic back on track and making a few key edits....maybe more moderators are needed. More moderators that have the time to actually moderate rather than just ax posts and threads cause its the easy way out.
I also agree that there are way too many sub-forums. There is only ever one sub-forum I click on and read and thats hydraulics. Everything else I see is simply by viewing a page or two of "new" posts and clicking on anything that catches my eye. But the dilema is everytime I want to make a new post. A topic like pictures of welding up a new hydraulic toplink for my kubota could fit in a several categories. IT could go in attachments, build-it-yourself, hydraulics, welding, customization, kubota owning/operating, projects, photos, etc. And how many times do we see a new member post.....and someone else says "try posting in _________ forum for a better answer"?
RoyJackson
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I'm good with this, with one possible caveat...
We're up to the fourth "Groan" thread. I assume the first three were closed due to adult content "dirty" jokes
There are a lot of jokes that are risque and borderline inappropriate...these, IMHO, should be deleted on a case by case basis, rather then closing down a popular thread.
Politics, on the other hand, always lead to hate and discontent...sometimes hard to determine where that line is drawn...but there is TNT (never visited that, BTW) if folks need to discuss and argue
We're up to the fourth "Groan" thread. I assume the first three were closed due to adult content "dirty" jokes
There are a lot of jokes that are risque and borderline inappropriate...these, IMHO, should be deleted on a case by case basis, rather then closing down a popular thread.
Politics, on the other hand, always lead to hate and discontent...sometimes hard to determine where that line is drawn...but there is TNT (never visited that, BTW) if folks need to discuss and argue
Diggin It
Super Star Member
Part of the problem here is reading comprehension. Several posts are talking about boardwide Moderation despite ....
Whether or not more Mods are needed sitewide would be another thread.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Exactly the point I was making. Whole threads get closed or deleted because of a few comments and the answer is always the same. The mods dont have time and its easier to axe everything.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Its not comprehension. Its all in the context of this thread. I know it is specifically asking about one sub-forum. But the whole reason this thread is even being discussed is because of sitewide issues. And lets face it...all the other threads on this subject from a few weeks ago were closed.
OP
800-1000. Easy!
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