I have owned my last 2 wheel drive pickup

[MossRoad]

Snow tires on the front only makes you car handle like an arrow with no feathers. The back end won't be stable.

Bruce

That's a pretty good analogy.

 

[dirttoys]

This thread was interesting enough, and I happened to have a truck to test with.

Truck 2014 half ton lariat eld rear, very plain, fairly new street tires:

Test area flat clayish pasture, fescue ~4 inches tall (I mow an area for a shooting range) ground soft frozen under 8" of snow over half inch of melt/freeze ice.

First, I am amazed at how well traction control and abs work MOST of the time, for this test (and doing donuts) they are useless. I am able to "disable" tc while in 2wd but, it kicks back in at a fairly low speed, so I couldn't simply floor it and see if I could eventually find the bottom and dig out, but I think I got useful results. The data bellow is with tc disabled as best you can, it does go away in 4 low.

1. 2wd eld (electric locking rear diff) off. If careful and slightly down hill you could start and move, and build momentum. If dead flat or slightly up hill only spin. If side hill would either spin or move based on if there was any up down grade to go with the side hill, either way would stay facing the same direction.
2. 2wd eld on. If down hill would start a little easier than no lock. Up hill would still only spin. If side hill rear tires would immediately seek the down hill direction.
3. 4wd (I used low just to completely eliminate tc). If careful it would start and track without spinning with or without eld on. If you hammered it, it would spin, and move straight without eld, and with eld it would bite better, but the rear would point down hill.

I have an 03 lariat as well, with limited slip and real tires, no drivers assist except abs.

I would have filmed the test but leadership was un-excited about holding the camera when it was cold, watching me try to brake the truck.

Definitive opinions:

1. Lockers have a limited use case, split mui (one side of boat ramp wet, dropped both right wheels in a muddy ditch) or drag racing. For people that didn't grow up driving rear wheel drive cars/trucks, it is probably a liability.
2. Drivers assist "stuff" stability control, traction control, anti lock breaks are probably a strong positive with a few exceptions, ya ought to be able to turn the darn stuff off when you want to do donuts though IF for some reason I was going to let leadership drive on bad roads, it would be the 14 and not the 03.

Best,

ed

 

[Raul-02]

Got stuck in the yard of the 100+ year old house my youngest is redoing. Wife and I were supposed to load aluminum siding that had come off the house to take to a recycling place. Truck is a 2014 Ford F150 with the towing package. I love it for driving, towing, and hauling stuff. But it can get stuck on wet grass. Tires have street tread and 43,000 miles on them and that didn't help. My Kioti was ten miles away. Nobody nearby was at home. Finally got hold of a friend who is a retired college professor/preacher/business owner. He has some heart issues and it scared me to call him. He pulled me out with a RAM 4wd. Never spun a tire.

I will be hearing about this for years.

RSKY

I had a deli, I was the delivery driver for a while. I drove an older Bmmr with a 70% posi rear. That car could go through the worst conditions snow, drifts, unplowed streets, uphill, you name it.
One wheel drive is useless.

 

[BravoXray]

So, you never take your truck offroad?

As far off road as it gets is driving through the back yard to the patio of my walk-out basement. I really have no reason or desire to take it off road. It does have a limited slip rear, so when it's slick, the rear end will slide around unless you're easy on the throttle.

As far as cost for 4WD, when I priced a 2020 F150 XLT, it was over $4500 for the 4WD package, over 10% of the truck cost. Then, besides the initial cost, 4WD adds another drive line, differential, 4 CV joints, engagement clutches and a transfer case that are going to need maintenance and repair sometime, and that is not going to be cheap. It also makes the truck 4-500 lbs heavier and is a pain in the ass to work around.
The 4WD trucks also set up higher and aren't as easy to get in and out of as I get older. I can open the door on my F150 and just slide right into the seat.

I can do just fine without all that.

Some people truly need a 4WD truck, but they are probably only 10% or less of the number who own 4WD vehicles.

 

[jyoutz]

Didn't know Dodge did it, but I had an early 90s Blazer with that arrangement. Never really had much of a problem with it. Remember having to replace a vacuum switch at some point, don't recall what the symptoms were, but don't think it prevented it from going into 4WD.

I work in a forestry program. The 1990s era Chevy/GM trucks had an issue with front axle engagement. We were always rescuing people stuck in the mud or snow in the woods because their front axle didn’t engage. There was a rubber boot protecting a solenoid that engaged the front axle. Whenever a stick punctured that rubber, water would short out the solenoid, preventing the axle from engaging. GM must have changed that design because we don’t see that issue anymore.

 

[deserteagle71]

Have you ever looked into OX Lockers? Aren't they electric?

Ox lockers are totally manual, last I checked. Cable activated - you yank a handle in the cab to activate the locker.

 

[deserteagle71]

This thread was interesting enough, and I happened to have a truck to test with.

Truck 2014 half ton lariat eld rear, very plain, fairly new street tires:

Test area flat clayish pasture, fescue ~4 inches tall (I mow an area for a shooting range) ground soft frozen under 8" of snow over half inch of melt/freeze ice.

First, I am amazed at how well traction control and abs work MOST of the time, for this test (and doing donuts) they are useless. I am able to "disable" tc while in 2wd but, it kicks back in at a fairly low speed, so I couldn't simply floor it and see if I could eventually find the bottom and dig out, but I think I got useful results. The data bellow is with tc disabled as best you can, it does go away in 4 low.

1. 2wd eld (electric locking rear diff) off. If careful and slightly down hill you could start and move, and build momentum. If dead flat or slightly up hill only spin. If side hill would either spin or move based on if there was any up down grade to go with the side hill, either way would stay facing the same direction.
2. 2wd eld on. If down hill would start a little easier than no lock. Up hill would still only spin. If side hill rear tires would immediately seek the down hill direction.
3. 4wd (I used low just to completely eliminate tc). If careful it would start and track without spinning with or without eld on. If you hammered it, it would spin, and move straight without eld, and with eld it would bite better, but the rear would point down hill.

I have an 03 lariat as well, with limited slip and real tires, no drivers assist except abs.

I would have filmed the test but leadership was un-excited about holding the camera when it was cold, watching me try to brake the truck.

Definitive opinions:

1. Lockers have a limited use case, split mui (one side of boat ramp wet, dropped both right wheels in a muddy ditch) or drag racing. For people that didn't grow up driving rear wheel drive cars/trucks, it is probably a liability.
2. Drivers assist "stuff" stability control, traction control, anti lock breaks are probably a strong positive with a few exceptions, ya ought to be able to turn the darn stuff off when you want to do donuts though IF for some reason I was going to let leadership drive on bad roads, it would be the 14 and not the 03.

Best,

ed

How does everyone get to drive only "flat" terrain?

I've used the locker on my F150 numerous times - but it has always been in situation like crossing deep ditches at an angle where one front tire and the opposite side rear tire is pretty much hanging in the air. Without a locker I wouldn't move.

 

[scaredychicken]

RSKY - I agree, this current 2wd truck that I have will be my last 2wd.

I have a '93 Silverado C2500 Z71 that I bought seven years ago for $2500. It is low Kms, and in great shape, it owes me nothing. I can't even think about replacing it yet (we have a 4x4 SUV for most winter driving). Rarely do I get stuck, but it has happened. I am in the process of buying new tires for it ... All Terrain, 10 ply, Light Truck knobby tires, rated for every season. That alone should be a significant improvement, on the almost 20 yr old all-season tires that are on it now. The Old Body Style (OBS) trucks are retaining their value at this point, so I will hang on to it for now.

I also have a project truck (son hit a deer / tree), that I plan on repairing and returning to the road ... 2004 Mazda B4000, 4x4, 4L, v6, in otherwise good condition.

If the truck is low milage,you like it and are on a budget I suggest installing a locker to see how you like it. I've driven out countless times when a couple of guys stood on the rear bumper.

not sure what you mean by "installing a locker" ? I'd like to look into that. Thanks for any other details that you may have.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

Snow tires on the front only makes you car handle like an arrow with no feathers. The back end won't be stable.

Bruce

Unscientific experiment... playing in snow. Snow tires have grip going forward. When you do donuts, they have very limited traction going sideways. Regular tires have limited traction going forward, but doing donuts, they have better traction going sideways. So, on fwd, Regular tires on rear can give better traction once car starts going sideways. All snows can go sideways too.
Maybe not ideal to have 2 snows. But all is not lost if you do.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Ox lockers are totally manual, last I checked. Cable activated - you yank a handle in the cab to activate the locker.

Okay, that's the one that wont work with a 9 inch because they send you a rear cover. It won't work in my old hi boy either because it's a coarse spline Dana 60. I wanted to update the front and rear anyway.