Why not sugar water in tires instead of beet juice?

[CADplans]

As far as expecting a pressure spike when running over a rock,,,,,,,,,,,

my 584 IH has fluid filled rear tires.
To check the pressure, I do not use a gauge,, I use a tape measure.
Just 2 to 4 psi can make the wheel (steel part) lower by an inch. (I do not remember the exact correlation of pressure to height)
Anyways, when you hit a bump, the pressure will not spike, the other parts of the tire will simply stretch.

IMHO,, after having a dozen fluid filled tire equipped tractors, and several not filled,,
I feel the fluid filled tires ride much smoother. The fluid acts like a shock absorber, slowing the time that a bump changes the ride.

We each have our own beliefs,, that is mine,
I have helped MANY people fill front tires of their garden tractor, so that the machine will steer more precisely.
The steering is a benefit beyond the nicer ride.
In each case, the owner complained that the tractor would plow straight ahead when mowing on a grade,
the machine would not turn in the direction the tires would turn.

The driver would have to slow WAY down,, but, with fluid filled front tires, the machine would respond to the tires being turned.

 

[M59]

CADplans,

A unique method for checking tires. It does eliminate the time involved with moving the valve stem to 12 oclock position which makes sense. I have not measured tire height before but wonder about several related factors:
What is the correlation between psi and tire height and is it linear for the span of +/- 3 to 5 psi around the desired OEM setting?
What is the effect or not on measurement of having the tractor on anything other than level ground?
What kind of tires are you running since R1's and possibly R4's would be pain to get repeatable measurements on or sufficiently close to stay with 1-2 psi of OEM target. R3s would be easiest to measure and most repeatable.

We will disagree the fluid acts as a shock absorber since fluids in general are in-compressible and the very reason fluid is used in the tractor's hydraulic system. ( there are very special cases where fluids can experience compression but we will never experience those on a tractor ). I suspect you fill the tire carcass with the valve stem at 12 oclock and stop when fluid runs out. This leaves an air cushion which is what compresses and provides that smooth ride.

Filling the front tires increases the contact with the ground due to increasing the front end weight and thereby improves steering.

Enjoy the 4th.

 

[2manyrocks]

Haven't read all of this thread. Who came up with using beet juice? It just seems so odd that I am curious how it came to be used for fluid ballast?

 

[M59]

2manyrocks,
Desugared beet juice pulp is a waste product that got repurposed because it's specific gravity is significantly higher than water, it is cheap for distributor to buy since it is a waste product that would normally get dumped back onto field, it is non corrosive to metal wheel rims, it is non poisonous to animals and land if it leaks, and its freezing point at greater than -35'F is well below water's 32'F freeze point.
I'm guessing RimGuard built a business on selling a waste product for profit.
Rimguard weighs 10.7 Lbs/ gal.
BioBallast weighs 9.7 Lbs/ gal ( Their MSDS / SDS says proprietary organic components but I suspect product is corn gluten based )
Water weighs 8.3 Lbs/ gal

The American dream. Selling a waste product for profit.

See attached

 

[beckmurph]

I loaded my tires with antifreeze and water solution.

I used 3gallons of antifreeze to 23 gallons of water in each tire.

 

[CADplans]

CADplans,

A unique method for checking tires. It does eliminate the time involved with moving the valve stem to 12 oclock position which makes sense. I have not measured tire height before but wonder about several related factors:
What is the correlation between psi and tire height and is it linear for the span of +/- 3 to 5 psi around the desired OEM setting?
What is the effect or not on measurement of having the tractor on anything other than level ground?
What kind of tires are you running since R1's and possibly R4's would be pain to get repeatable measurements on or sufficiently close to stay with 1-2 psi of OEM target. R3s would be easiest to measure and most repeatable.

We will disagree the fluid acts as a shock absorber since fluids in general are in-compressible and the very reason fluid is used in the tractor's hydraulic system. ( there are very special cases where fluids can experience compression but we will never experience those on a tractor ). I suspect you fill the tire carcass with the valve stem at 12 oclock and stop when fluid runs out. This leaves an air cushion which is what compresses and provides that smooth ride.

Filling the front tires increases the contact with the ground due to increasing the front end weight and thereby improves steering.

Enjoy the 4th.

I air up R1, R4, and ATV tires all the same way,, the method results in similar tire "diameter" or circumference.
With R1 tires, proper inflation results in the correct number of tire bars in contact with the ground.
I have zero concern for what the psi is in the tires,, only contact patch, and diameter.
ATV tires must be identical circumference for a solid axle ATV to track straight.

Yes, I do only check the tires in my level concrete shed.
The dimension of inflation is written on the steel siding next to the air compressor.
Zero guessing, zero inflation gauge damage.

My 1984 Honda ATV manual specified the rear tires were to be aired by measuring the circumference with a tape measure,,
a pressure gauge could not measure the big balloon tires in a way to give similar rolling circumference. (it was about 2 psi)
Tractor tires like having similar diameter tires,, it tends to keep the tractor level.

Lots of people complain that their loader is "sprung" because only one side of the bucket touches,,
it is often just improperly aired tires.

As far as compression of liquids,, the reason I mentioned the way I air my tires was to show how tractor tires easily expand if a bump is encountered.
The tire is nothing like the tractor hydraulics,, the fluid in a hydraulic system is contained in steel and steel reenforced braided hose.

The tires on my tractor react like a fluid filled balloon.
Water, or air filled balloon,, compress one spot, another part of the balloon expands.
So, water or air filled tires react the same,,
the difference is that water filled tires react slowly,, giving a shock absorber type ride enhancement.

 

[gstrom99]

I had Rim Guard installed, after I bought new rears. I called Rim Guard for local installer contact info. I asked for several, and called for pricing. There is no standard pricing. Kubota dealer was $4/gal (plus "labor"), industrial tire dealer was $2.50/gal, installed. Call around.

 

[SF82]

$3-4 a gallon installed is typical for "beet juice" and there's a calculator for figuring how much is needed by tire size. I would steer clear of calcium chloride as it's known to be caustic and rust rims from inside out which is why it's rarely used anymore. As has been mentioned before sugar water can become caustic as well. "Beet juice" is not sugar water, it's the leftover syrupy liquid after the sugar has been removed. Plain water can work as long as you never see freezing temps, south Florida maybe, but can cause corrosion as well. I wouldn't use antifreeze as the environmental concerns wouldn't sit well with me. Windshield washer fluid can be a cheap option with slightly less environmental concerns and sure wouldn't want to spring a leak in the garden or crop field.

 

[D2Cat]

2manyrocks,
Desugared beet juice pulp is a waste product that got repurposed because it's specific gravity is significantly higher than water, it is cheap for distributor to buy since it is a waste product that would normally get dumped back onto field, it is non corrosive to metal wheel rims, it is non poisonous to animals and land if it leaks, and its freezing point at greater than -35'F is well below water's 32'F freeze point.
I'm guessing RimGuard built a business on selling a waste product for profit.
Rimguard weighs 10.7 Lbs/ gal.
BioBallast weighs 9.7 Lbs/ gal ( Their MSDS / SDS says proprietary organic components but I suspect product is corn gluten based )
Water weighs 8.3 Lbs/ gal

The American dream. Selling a waste product for profit.

See attached

Beet juice is also used for dust control or gravel roads in some areas. But then 30 years ago we use to dump drained engine oil on gravel roads!

 

[nyone]

I wouldn't consider running my tractor without LOADED back tires. 1st tractor 20+ yrs. with sodium chloride never a problem . Bought a new tractor nothing in tires used it for for 1 wk. to dangerous. Found where I could get the tires loaded with beat juice and had them filled . Safer on hill sides , helps with a full loader bucket but ballast as well is better. Does not effect the ride unless you over air them. My acreage is mt. side steep skid trails and I often travel on slopes putting an average of 600 hrs. a yr. on the tractor logging and brush hogging.

A few years ago I bought a 1990 b8200 kubota with out loaded rear tires. Idk how someone used this thing for 30+yrs with out loaded rear tires. It was almost un useable.

I have owned a 1957 Ford with calcium in the rear tires for about 9yrs with out a single issue.

 

[D2Cat]

A few years ago I bought a 1990 b8200 kubota with out loaded rear tires. Idk how someone used this thing for 30+yrs with out loaded rear tires. It was almost un useable.

I have owned a 1957 Ford with calcium in the rear tires for about 9yrs with out a single issue.

To each his own. I bought a B8200 new in 1985 and it never had loaded tires and it was never a problem for me. Had a loader and used it for everything I needed it for! Sold it about 5 years ago and the guy who bought it used it for a couple of months before bought it. He didn't/hasn't loaded the tires either.

 

[rScotty]

$3-4 a gallon installed is typical for "beet juice" and there's a calculator for figuring how much is needed by tire size. I would steer clear of calcium chloride as it's known to be caustic and rust rims from inside out which is why it's rarely used anymore. As has been mentioned before sugar water can become caustic as well. "Beet juice" is not sugar water, it's the leftover syrupy liquid after the sugar has been removed. Plain water can work as long as you never see freezing temps, south Florida maybe, but can cause corrosion as well. I wouldn't use antifreeze as the environmental concerns wouldn't sit well with me. Windshield washer fluid can be a cheap option with slightly less environmental concerns and sure wouldn't want to spring a leak in the garden or crop field.

I hear you on environmental concerns, but it's probably not a problem.

People don't use regular old green poisonous ethylene glycol radiator antifreeze to mix with water for loading tires. It does look like Gatorade and it has a sweet attractive tasted.....But if it leaks, it kills growing things. Plus any animal that drinks it will die - although not easily. Kids are at risk.

RV antifreeze - the pink fluid stuff you put in pipes for winter storage - is what people use to mix with water for loading tires. It is propylene glycol. It has all the temperature & mixing advantages as the green radiator fluid, costs about the same, sits on the next shelf at the auto parts place, and best of all it is not-poisonous. In fact it is used in food prep.

I don't load tires myself. More trouble than it's worth for what I do.

rScotty

 

[sandman2234]

I also prefer steel to liquid for weight. If one set isn't enough, get longer bolts and add a second or third set.
Biggest mistake I made was letting 1300 pounds of weights go with a tractor I sold!
David from jax

 

[M59]

$3-4 a gallon installed is typical for "beet juice" and there's a calculator for figuring how much is needed by tire size. I would steer clear of calcium chloride as it's known to be caustic and rust rims from inside out which is why it's rarely used anymore. As has been mentioned before sugar water can become caustic as well. "Beet juice" is not sugar water, it's the leftover syrupy liquid after the sugar has been removed. Plain water can work as long as you never see freezing temps, south Florida maybe, but can cause corrosion as well. I wouldn't use antifreeze as the environmental concerns wouldn't sit well with me. Windshield washer fluid can be a cheap option with slightly less environmental concerns and sure wouldn't want to spring a leak in the garden or crop field.

SF82,

This thread grew some new legs.

I bought a 55 gal drum of 92% propylene glycol ( non poisonous glycol ) in 2019 for $476 delivered for a non tractor related project . Cost was $8.76/ gal so not really cost competitive with RimGuard and propylene glycol at a specific gravity of 1.03 is just 3% ( 8.595 Lbs/ gal ) heavier than water ( 8.345 Lbs/ gal ) so a weight dis-advantage over RimGuard at 10.7 Lbs / gal.
The Propylene Glycol can be diluted from 92% ( freeze pt greater than -60'F ) to 50% solution with freeze pt of -29'F to roughly equal the RimGuard freeze pt of -35F but again you lose considerable weight advantage when using a product other than beet juice.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

I bought an Oliver tractor with 38" tires at an auction years ago. It worked great but had been used for tractor pulls and the rear tires were unknowingly filled with water. When they froze I drove about 100 yards and the tubes got pulverized by the ice frozen solid inside the tires and the tractor returned to the yard with the tires flat on one position only. With every revolution of the tires there was a deep blip when the tractor flopped down like driving over a stump.

Water might be OK for tire ballast in the Caribbean but not in Canada.

I'm 20 miles north of Louisiana. We never use straight water here. But, your machine was hauled a lot so I imagine it would be straight water. You could have let some out and seen what it was. Most people that buy tractors probably have a way to freeze something.

 

[bmaverick]

I hear you on environmental concerns, but it's probably not a problem.

People don't use regular old green poisonous ethylene glycol radiator antifreeze to mix with water for loading tires. It does look like Gatorade and it has a sweet attractive tasted.....But if it leaks, it kills growing things. Plus any animal that drinks it will die - although not easily. Kids are at risk.

RV antifreeze - the pink fluid stuff you put in pipes for winter storage - is what people use to mix with water for loading tires. It is propylene glycol. It has all the temperature & mixing advantages as the green radiator fluid, costs about the same, sits on the next shelf at the auto parts place, and best of all it is not-poisonous. In fact it is used in food prep.

I don't load tires myself. More trouble than it's worth for what I do.

rScotty

When the RV antifreeze (pink stuff) goes on sale, that's the time to stock up. Its normally $1 or $2 cheaper than the beet juice.

Yes, propylene glycol is found in gummy bears, Swedish Fish, most salad dressings, BBQ sauces, and much more.

For organic farms, the Sierra RV/Marine antifreeze of the propylene glycol is used. Its both pet safe and safer for the soil. This works well in the engine cooling system. Costs a little more than regular antifreeze too.

For the OP question, just take a glass of sugar water, place it in the coldest freezer and come back in 72 hours. If it's rock solid frozen, then don't use it for the tractor. But, it you boil the sugar in the water to infuse it, run the test again. Then with the same solution test it a week later. If it's not over 40% frozen, you could have a viable solution. The question then is, how long would the solution hold up for.

When water freezes, the water molecules arrange themselves into special patterns - this is why we can sometimes see neat patterns in water crystals. If there is something like sugar mixed into the water (an 'impurity'), then it is harder for the water molecules to form the proper patterns. The sugar molecules are not the same shape or size as the water molecules are, so they don't fit into the ice crystals, even though they do fit nicely into the liquid water. Because of this, it's actually harder to freeze liquids like juice or soda than plain water - you have to get them colder before they will freeze. This is why these 'impure' liquids did not freeze as quickly as plain water. In chemistry, this is called 'freezing point depression'.
Department of Physics
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

We can look at the freezing points of certain liquids. Click on the (F) in the chart to get the cold temp to display. Look for non-flammable and non-corrosive.
Liquids - Freezing and Melting Points
Linseed oil down to -4 could be a solution. Cost wise is very high per gallon.
Propylene glycol down to -76, (RV/Marine Antifreeze) and mixes well with water.

Other than Beet Juice, what else works?
Corn oil at $12 average per gallon. Yet it could go rancid over a few years.
Canola oil at $30 average per gallon. Will last years.
Refined Soy oil that can work is a mere $14.41 per gallon.
Refined White Sorghum syrup malt, will not crystallize, is a mere $44 per gallon.

Finding a really good non-freeze non-corrosive liquid to fill in tractor tires being cost effective, Beet juice and RV/Marine antifreeze is really hard to beat price per gallon.

 

[bmaverick]

SF82,

This thread grew some new legs.

I bought a 55 gal drum of 92% propylene glycol ( non poisonous glycol ) in 2019 for $476 delivered for a non tractor related project . Cost was $8.76/ gal so not really cost competitive with RimGuard and propylene glycol at a specific gravity of 1.03 is just 3% ( 8.595 Lbs/ gal ) heavier than water ( 8.345 Lbs/ gal ) so a weight dis-advantage over RimGuard at 10.7 Lbs / gal.
The Propylene Glycol can be diluted from 92% ( freeze pt greater than -60'F ) to 50% solution with freeze pt of -29'F to roughly equal the RimGuard freeze pt of -35F but again you lose considerable weight advantage when using a product other than beet juice.

Love the comparison here.

For SCUT and CUT tractors not in the deep freeze north, the RV/Marine Antifreeze works just fine. The weight would work for these smaller machines. I get the RV/Marine antifreeze for a mere $3 or less per gallon at Walmart, Farm-n-Fleet, etc. already diluted to the -40F. My area lowest record temps is not greater than -30F.

Going the 1-gallon jug route already diluted is a huge savings over RimGuard. Plus most places will only offer 'service' to install the RimGuard, so the additional cost vs. doing it yourself at home with the RV/Marine PG.

A 55-gallon metal drum alone already has a higher cost. 55-gallon Plastic drum is a tad less. The 1-gallon and 5-gallon buckets of RV/Marine PG is priced minimally for the container thanks to mass production.

We know both products work really well for Ag applications. It's the overall price point people have with hobby farms and homesteads where RV/Marine PG comes out ahead. For larger Ag farms, RimGuard is very attractive.

I only use the filled rear tires for snow removal on a 2WD tractor. I don't plant winter crops nor harvest them out in the mid-west plains. Likewise, some mid-west operations are still harvesting corn before the heavy snows arrive. Those would be the operations needing RimGuard.

The OP is filling tires on a YM2310, its a CUT nearly the size of my machine.
His tires are not as big as an 8N. Bet he's doing the same operations I do too for a homestead.

 

[cold1313]

Love the comparison here.

For SCUT and CUT tractors not in the deep freeze north, the RV/Marine Antifreeze works just fine. The weight would work for these smaller machines. I get the RV/Marine antifreeze for a mere $3 or less per gallon at Walmart, Farm-n-Fleet, etc. already diluted to the -40F. My area lowest record temps is not greater than -30F.

Going the 1-gallon jug route already diluted is a huge savings over RimGuard. Plus most places will only offer 'service' to install the RimGuard, so the additional cost vs. doing it yourself at home with the RV/Marine PG.

A 55-gallon metal drum alone already has a higher cost. 55-gallon Plastic drum is a tad less. The 1-gallon and 5-gallon buckets of RV/Marine PG is priced minimally for the container thanks to mass production.

We know both products work really well for Ag applications. It's the overall price point people have with hobby farms and homesteads where RV/Marine PG comes out ahead. For larger Ag farms, RimGuard is very attractive.

I only use the filled rear tires for snow removal on a 2WD tractor. I don't plant winter crops nor harvest them out in the mid-west plains. Likewise, some mid-west operations are still harvesting corn before the heavy snows arrive. Those would be the operations needing RimGuard.

The OP is filling tires on a YM2310, its a CUT nearly the size of my machine.
His tires are not as big as an 8N. Bet he's doing the same operations I do too for a homestead.

I can get BioBallast at $3.50/gallon. My concern is if/when I need to transfer the fluid out or get a leak...

I need about 160 gallons between my two rear tires. That's a LOT of 1 gallon jugs! Have you noticed a trend of when (or where) it goes on sale?

 

[bmaverick]

I can get BioBallast at $3.50/gallon. My concern is if/when I need to transfer the fluid out or get a leak...

I need about 160 gallons between my two rear tires. That's a LOT of 1 gallon jugs! Have you noticed a trend of when (or where) it goes on sale?

WOW 160 gallons. Those are huge tires. I have a compact tractor so its about 1/2 that. I got a shed with a shelving unit to load up the jugs.

The trend to buy is after the first good freeze. By then most RV'ers and boats dry docked for the winter have already been winterized. Over the late Fall, cabin owners with shallow wells and umps will use it till they close up for the season. Its this time to buy it.

 

[cold1313]

WOW 160 gallons. Those are huge tires. I have a compact tractor so its about 1/2 that. I got a shed with a shelving unit to load up the jugs.

The trend to buy is after the first good freeze. By then most RV'ers and boats dry docked for the winter have already been winterized. Over the late Fall, cabin owners with shallow wells and umps will use it till they close up for the season. Its this time to buy it.

What are you finding in a price per gallon, for the RV?