Garage floor

[repete]

I was afraid to put anything on my floor beyond a clear acrylic sealer to enhance the concrete curing process. Dragging pieces of steel across the floor would make it ugly, fast...

When I first poured my 30 x 60 slab I built a "dam" at all of the openings so I could flood the slab with water post pour. Kept the water on it via a stock tank float system for a week or so. After that I drained it and once dry at the surface coated in in the acrylic sealer.

I always advise people to understand concrete mixtures and how concrete cures to get the most strength out of concrete. Just a warning, if you tell me the concrete was dry within a couple days of the pour you are in for a class....

 

[ponytug]

I was afraid to put anything on my floor beyond a clear acrylic sealer to enhance the concrete curing process. Dragging pieces of steel across the floor would make it ugly, fast...

When I first poured my 30 x 60 slab I built a "dam" at all of the openings so I could flood the slab with water post pour. Kept the water on it via a stock tank float system for a week or so. After that I drained it and once dry at the surface coated in in the acrylic sealer.

I always advise people to understand concrete mixtures and how concrete cures to get the most strength out of concrete. Just a warning, if you tell me the concrete was dry within a couple days of the pour you are in for a class....

I saw a chart of concrete strength vs wet time once when I was a kid and it certainly made a lifelong impression on me. I truly don't understand why more concrete contractors don't actively wet their work, and cover it to help keep it wet.

For those who haven't ever seen it;

I.e. unwetted concrete achieves less than half the strength of continuously wetted concrete, concrete kept wet for a week achieves twice the strength of air dried concrete, and continuously wetted concrete is still gaining strength six months later.

All the best,

Peter

 

[repete]

It would also be good to understand the strength of concrete has a everything to do with mixture. Some folks like to add water to make it easier to work. Water takes space in concrete, that eventually dries out and leaves voids within the concrete and that causes weakness.

I remember two things about concrete. First, if concrete flows down the shoot (which it must obviously) it has more than enough water to complete the chemical reaction that cures the mixture so adding more water means weaker concrete. Second, "If you want concrete easier to work, add sweat".

 

[Code54]

Anything that is homeowner applied ain't gunna hold up worth a . Commercially applied expoxy floors done by professionals are the only thing that's gunna hold up to car traffic and garage abuse. They range from $5 to $15 dollars a sq.ft. depending on the thickness and base material used. Google "Stone Hard" epoxy floors they have a good website with lots of pictures. We have their floors in some of our buildings and they hold up rather well.

I have to disagree - I used a commercial grade epoxy but did it myself, and it looks the same as new years later. There is nothing a professional can do that a homeowner can not; it is just a matter of getting the right tools and putting forth the effort.

 

[IndyJay]

I have to disagree - I used a commercial grade epoxy but did it myself, and it looks the same as new years later. There is nothing a professional can do that a homeowner can not; it is just a matter of getting the right tools and putting forth the effort.

It also helps to know the "tricks of the trade".

 

[spitter]

What are you calling commercial grade epoxy? A proper commercial grade epoxy floor has a thickness of 3/16 to 1/4" thick material layer. The concrete is shot peened to remove the cream layer that is the top 1/16" of the slab to get down to the hard layer below. There is no way for a homeowner to even buy these products or to afford the tools to install them properly.

If you are talking about an epoxy resin that just sits on top of the slap that is just a coating, we are talking about two different animals completely. If you Google Stonehard Stone clad coating it has videos of the process to install it and if you watch, you will see why there is no way for a homeowner to install it.

 

[Code54]

It was straightforward to order my coating - it is a warehouse floor coating, and it landed at my door a few days after I placed the order. I simply went to the rental house, got a set of diamond bits, and rented a gas floor grinder. Cut the floor down with that, already had a respirator, and applied the coating over one very long day. It is a 3-coat urethane system (primer, color coat, clear coat) with an anti-skid additive and a flake. that had all kinds of "ratings" and is perfect after several years. It is overkill for a house garage, but I often drag some heavy steel items around and didn't want a floor that would get all scuffed/torn up.

A friend did his floor at the same time (figure we could both used the bits, etc.), and it is also perfect. It may not be the "Stonehard clad" you are specifically speaking of, but there are other commercial coatings that are also excellent products. Stonehard is simply a brand-name epoxy and urethane floor protection system. I also noticed some Stonehard listed on eBay currently if you really want to buy it and not have a "pro" install it.

If I recall correctly, I had about $1000 in doing my garage floor; the "pros" wanted $6,000. I agree they have some tips and tricks that are helpful, but for 5K I figured I could do my own research and figure it out. Honestly, it is some work, not really a fun job by any stretch, but also not exactly rocket science, just mainly a little research and labor.

Both Epoxy and Urethane coating can be great for a garage type of floor - neither is bad, and neither is perfect. Both are a slight compromise, but if you stick with the industrial/commercial coatings, you will do fine. The stuff at the big box stores is really what you need to avoid; it is made for a price point and a quick install. Also, without the proper prep, it doesn't matter what you put down; it won't last.

Floor coating rating info if you are interested.

(Abrasion Resistance Method: ASTM D4060, CS 17 wheel, 1000 cycles, 1 KG Load Result: 18 mg Loss Adhesion: Cross Cut Method: ASTM 3359 Result: Passes 5 Adhesion: Elcometer 106 Method: D4541 Result: Exceeds 500 PSI Dry Heat Resistance Method: ASTM D2485 Result: 400ºF Flexibility: Conical Bend Mandrel, 180º Bend Method: ASTM D522 Result: Passes 1/4” Impact Resistance Method: ASTM D2794 Result: Direct – 160 in. lb. Pencil Hardness Method: ASTM D3363 Result: 4H Salt Fog Resistance Method: ASTM B117 Result: Passes 1200 hrs Accelerated Weathering Method: ASTM D-4587, QUV Result: Passed: 1500 hours, Abrasion results are greatly improved with the addition of our anti-skid. Abrasion Resistance Method: ASTM D4060, CS 17 wheel, 1000 cycles, 1 kg load Result: 23 mg Loss Bond Strength Method: ACI 403 Result: 325 PSI (Concrete Fails) Dry Heat Resistance Method: ASTM D2485 Result: 350ºF Flexibility: Conical Bend Mandrel Method: ASTM D 522, 180º Bend Result: Passes 1/8” Impact Resistance Method: ASTM D 2794 Result: Direct – 160 in. lb. Result: Reverse – 160 in. lb. Pencil Hardness Method: ASTM D3363 Result: H Sward Hardness Method: D2134 Result: 44aa)

 

[ovrszd]

YA know, I often here people say this but in reality......I dont know a single person that has put pex in the floor because they "might" do radiant heat at some point in the future.

Its really not just as simple as "throw some pex in there and cover it with concrete".

It takes planning. Planning out zones.....and paying attention to hot out cold return. And tighter pex spacing around the perimeter. Not to mention 2" thick foam insulation under the slab that you then staple the pex to.

Then, if the garage is much larger than 20x20....moving concrete becomes an issue....because no buggies or wheel barrows. So tack on $500 more to the job for a pumper truck.

I helped a friend do a 40x64 with radiant heat. $3000 in insulation foam board, $1200 in pex, $100 in staples and tape, and $500 for the pump truck.

So for a 33 yard pour....darn near $5000 more just for stuff gonna be burried in concrete for radiant.

So unless people have money to burn....I dont know anyone that actually preps for radiant because of a "maybe". They are either doing it or they arent. ITs just too easy to tell others "you should put in pex....." Without actually thinking about the cost

Two neighbors insulated and pexed their floors but have not hooked up the heat yet. One has been in his 4 years. One two years.

In North country, I'd never pour a floor in an all weather building without insulating under it. I'd also never pour without pex. Pex for my 1900 sq ft shop was $470.

In regards to a pumper. It's the cheapest laborer on the pour site. Wouldn't think of doing anything bigger than 1000 sq ft without one.

 

[Woodstone27]

I might be late to the party but...
New concrete will require dry/cure time...
Would not bother DIY...well worth a pro for this task...
Consult a few companies...
Not going to be cheap...
These guys will have the answers, prep the floor as it needs to be, and warrantee the work...
WELL worth the money.
My humble $0.02

 

[ovrszd]

I was afraid to put anything on my floor beyond a clear acrylic sealer to enhance the concrete curing process. Dragging pieces of steel across the floor would make it ugly, fast...

When I first poured my 30 x 60 slab I built a "dam" at all of the openings so I could flood the slab with water post pour. Kept the water on it via a stock tank float system for a week or so. After that I drained it and once dry at the surface coated in in the acrylic sealer.

I always advise people to understand concrete mixtures and how concrete cures to get the most strength out of concrete. Just a warning, if you tell me the concrete was dry within a couple days of the pour you are in for a class....

Back in the day, concrete here was covered with burlap and kept wet for at least two weeks.

When the Interstate hiway system came thru I started seeing concrete not covered or wet.

 

[dodge man]

One reason is curing compounds have come along and take the place of wet burlap.

 

[ovrszd]

One reason is curing compounds have come along and take the place of wet burlap.

Excellent response.

 

[spitter]

Obviously not the same type of system. Yours is more of a paint I'm talking of a 1/4"thick material hard cladding.

 

[IXLR8]

This site will give you hours of reading on floor coverings. Might add more confusion than answers with all the options.

Flooring

From epoxy to tiles it is all here.

www.garagejournal.com

 

[deezler]

YA know, I often here people say this but in reality......I dont know a single person that has put pex in the floor because they "might" do radiant heat at some point in the future.

Its really not just as simple as "throw some pex in there and cover it with concrete".

So unless people have money to burn....I dont know anyone that actually preps for radiant because of a "maybe". They are either doing it or they arent. ITs just too easy to tell others "you should put in pex....." Without actually thinking about the cost

Lol. I'm (so far) firmly in this category though, I knew I'd want radiant heat eventually, so I did all the work to put my PEX in. 5 years later and I still don't have insulation in my garage roof, so there is no reason to proceed with actually heating it yet.

The PEX and manifold kit only cost me $350 for my 30x36' slab. Probably took about an extra day of prep work for me to lay out the PEX at the same time as my rebar on chairs (I have the PEX tied to the bottom side of my rebar). I wasn't sure how soon I would get heating going, but it was a no brainer to do it while I had the chance.

Having PEX under the rebar didn't change the way the concrete was poured one bit. They brought the chute in through a man door in the back of the building, and were able to get concrete to all corners of the building easily. I was at work so I didn't see exactly how it went down, but they said no problem.

 

[deezler]

Regarding a floor covering. Upon the advice of my concrete guy, I went with an industrial grade clear acrylic sealer, and it has held up AWESOME so far. It was only $130 for a 5-gallon bucket of it and I only used about 3.5 gallons to do 2 coats. Just used a normal roller to plop it on nice and thick (it self evens).

TIAH - Acrylic Concrete Curing & Sealing Compound - W. R. Meadows

TIAH Acrylic Concrete Sealer from W. R. Meadows is an acrylic polymer solution that dries to a transparent film, which improves abrasion resistance of the concrete.

www.wrmeadows.com

Prep work is key. Mop that new concrete floor (after some curing time) repeatedly until the mop bucket is staying perfectly clean. Only then are you ready to apply a coating.

My acrylic sealer was so potent that even on a calm summer day with all the doors open, I had to wear a respirator to avoid passing out from the fumes. The entire forest around my garage stunk like extreme VOCs. But it cured quickly and sealed up the floor super nicely, and to this day (5 years later) I can simply wipe up any spilled oil without any stain. If I leave fluids on the floor for long periods (like a persistent drip you didn't notice), then it will still wipe up, but leave a damp looking patch that eventually goes away. The only thing that defeated it was leaving jugs of white vinegar in the garage over the winter - they froze and overflowed, and etched its way right down into the conrete. I suppose strong acid will do that, haha.

Acrylic Concrete Sealers | Milwaukee | CMS

Acrylic Concrete Sealers are excellent products to help protect concrete floors. It's very popular in commercial, industrial, institutional and residential flooring. For more information, contact Milwaukee's leading Concrete Sealer experts at Creative Maintenance Solutions (CMS).

www.creativemaintenance.com

 

[deezler]

I always advise people to understand concrete mixtures and how concrete cures to get the most strength out of concrete. Just a warning, if you tell me the concrete was dry within a couple days of the pour you are in for a class....

Asking genuinely here: So after my concrete guys left (they started the pour around 7am and left by 3pm with a very nice finish on top) on a hot summer day, even in the shade inside my garage it was drying out pretty quickly. So I watered it down with my garden hose a couple times to keep it wet all day, because I knew about this water/time/strength relationship. But by the next morning, it was dry on top. Should I have gotten right back to watering it? I did not, and then my concrete guy came back that second evening to saw cut the control joints. If I ordered and paid for a 4000 psi (7 sack?) concrete mix, how much strength do you really think I lost by letting the concrete by dry on the second day? Because for my homeowner hobby shop garage, it seems extremely strong and durable to me. But I did leave gaps in my PEX tubing to possibly add a 2-post lift someday, and better have enough strength left for that (5" thick slab).

Edit to add: I put sika flex in the control joints on day 3, and mopped the heck out of it and did my acrylic sealer on day 4, I think.

 

[ovrszd]

Lol. I'm (so far) firmly in this category though, I knew I'd want radiant heat eventually, so I did all the work to put my PEX in. 5 years later and I still don't have insulation in my garage roof, so there is no reason to proceed with actually heating it yet.

The PEX and manifold kit only cost me $350 for my 30x36' slab. Probably took about an extra day of prep work for me to lay out the PEX at the same time as my rebar on chairs (I have the PEX tied to the bottom side of my rebar). I wasn't sure how soon I would get heating going, but it was a no brainer to do it while I had the chance.

Having PEX under the rebar didn't change the way the concrete was poured one bit. They brought the chute in through a man door in the back of the building, and were able to get concrete to all corners of the building easily. I was at work so I didn't see exactly how it went down, but they said no problem.

Excellent post.

 

[ovrszd]

Asking genuinely here: So after my concrete guys left (they started the pour around 7am and left by 3pm with a very nice finish on top) on a hot summer day, even in the shade inside my garage it was drying out pretty quickly. So I watered it down with my garden hose a couple times to keep it wet all day, because I knew about this water/time/strength relationship. But by the next morning, it was dry on top. Should I have gotten right back to watering it? I did not, and then my concrete guy came back that second evening to saw cut the control joints. If I ordered and paid for a 4000 psi (7 sack?) concrete mix, how much strength do you really think I lost by letting the concrete by dry on the second day? Because for my homeowner hobby shop garage, it seems extremely strong and durable to me. But I did leave gaps in my PEX tubing to possibly add a 2-post lift someday, and better have enough strength left for that (5" thick slab).

Edit to add: I put sika flex in the control joints on day 3, and mopped the heck out of it and did my acrylic sealer on day 4, I think.

You'll be fine.

Slow drying minimizes shrinkage cracks. Yours more than likely cracked. In the control joints. Which is what they are for.

Good thinking about the lift circles!!!! Sometimes people will even pour thicker within those circles. A lift installation crew told me they don't like to see that done. They said they prefer to drill completely thru the concrete when installing the bolts. If a bolt fails to "hold" they can simply drive it down thru the concrete with a replacement.

 

[repete]

You'll be fine.

Slow drying minimizes shrinkage cracks. Yours more than likely cracked. In the control joints. Which is what they are for.

Good thinking about the lift circles!!!! Sometimes people will even pour thicker within those circles. A lift installation crew told me they don't like to see that done. They said they prefer to drill completely thru the concrete when installing the bolts. If a bolt fails to "hold" they can simply drive it down thru the concrete with a replacemen

Asking genuinely here: So after my concrete guys left (they started the pour around 7am and left by 3pm with a very nice finish on top) on a hot summer day, even in the shade inside my garage it was drying out pretty quickly. So I watered it down with my garden hose a couple times to keep it wet all day, because I knew about this water/time/strength relationship. But by the next morning, it was dry on top. Should I have gotten right back to watering it? I did not, and then my concrete guy came back that second evening to saw cut the control joints. If I ordered and paid for a 4000 psi (7 sack?) concrete mix, how much strength do you really think I lost by letting the concrete by dry on the second day? Because for my homeowner hobby shop garage, it seems extremely strong and durable to me. But I did leave gaps in my PEX tubing to possibly add a 2-post lift someday, and better have enough strength left for that (5" thick slab).

Edit to add: I put sika flex in the control joints on day 3, and mopped the heck out of it and did my acrylic sealer on day 4, I think.

You will likely be fine Deezler. You protected it during the most critical time with the water. Especially if it was not in the direct sun on a clear 95 degree day. The mixture water content will likely be what dictates the ultimate strength. A super wet 7 sack mix will never be as strong as a 7 sack minimal water mix.

When i poured my shop floor I dug out two 24" square by 20" deep holes where my lift would g and then did a monopour of a 4" slab over the entire shop floor. I also used 12" bolts in the concrete for the lift. I figured an extra 1/3 yd of concrete was cheap insurance... I was not comfortable with the directions stating that the lift would be fine on a 4" (which is frequently more like 3.5" with 2x4 forms).