NX5510 - No hydraulics after filter and fluid change

[MichiganIron]

I'm above freezing now (36). No change. Loosened the filter and there's plenty of fluid there (not going to pull it off and try to fill it). HST in which case I cannot back it up (or move it).

Thinking that if I were to loosen one of the output pipes from the pump that that might help with priming. Looks to be two 12mm bolts on each pipe. I think I can get to them. Will need to clean everything up real well first.

Keep it simple. This happens at times during a fluid and filter change, the pump can loose prime. Do not loosen any suction lines or remove anything. All it takes is a little compressed air in the transmission case to get things moving. Even though the case is vented, we have had good luck by just holding the air hose in the fill port with a rag around the hose to get a bit of a seal. With the tractor running at idle, and couple quick burst of air into the transmission case is usually all it takes to get the prime in the pump. Not much of a precise procedure, but it works every time.

Hope this helps...

 

[DieselBound]

I'd run compressed air and that didn't resolve. I suppose I could give it another shot, give it a bit more time than I had previously.

 

[DieselBound]

Would just like to add that I totally appreciate everyone here.

 

[RjCorazza]

I don't mean to send you down a random rabbit hole, but it is also possible that one of the filters is defective... Stranger things have happened.
I installed an aftermarket hst suction filter during a fluid change years ago, and the machine was dead in the water, very similar to yours. Out of desperation I put the old filter back on and it worked perfectly.
I have also had one OEM (Kubota) hydraulic filter that was defective, but that problem was very easy to diagnose!
I hope you get your issue resolved!

 

[MichiganIron]

I'd run compressed air and that didn't resolve. I suppose I could give it another shot, give it a bit more time than I had previously.

If you didn't fill the filters before installing, it will take some patience and more bursts of air to get the filters and the pump fully primed.

 

[DieselBound]

No luck on trying to pressurize again. Ran for about 10 minutes (hard to keep track of the time). Worried about running too long. If I know I won't kill the pump then I'll just got at it until it works.

RjCorazza, that thought has been with be from the very start. I had wanted to go with aftermarket filters (Donaldson) but decided I'd just go with Kioti: maybe bad decision this time? Going to be a huge mess to test this hypothesis. Really only wanting to try it as a last resort.

 

[RjCorazza]

No luck on trying to pressurize again. Ran for about 10 minutes (hard to keep track of the time). Worried about running too long. If I know I won't kill the pump then I'll just got at it until it works.

RjCorazza, that thought has been with be from the very start. I had wanted to go with aftermarket filters (Donaldson) but decided I'd just go with Kioti: maybe bad decision this time? Going to be a huge mess to test this hypothesis. Really only wanting to try it as a last resort.

I totally get that. I've never tried it, but I have heard of people using a shop vac on the fill port to change out filters with minimal fluid loss.
In post #6 @SPYDERLK mentions the suction filter seal. Sucking air here can cause the problems you are experiencing. In addition to my comment of a possible defective filter, I have also read about people doubling up the suction filter gasket (old gasket remains on case, and new filter gasket on top. The result could be a suction leak. That one would be easy enough to check for.

 

[JimR]

I just don't understand how the pump lost its prime. I do mine during the Summer heat because the oil flows so much easier when warm. You have oil in the filter. That means the oil is working its way forward.

 

[NUTTERDW]

Same problem happened on my CaseIH tractor after filter change. I pulled the Hyd filter back off and found that I did not the gasket in place like it should have. PROBLEM SOLVED

 

[DieselBound]

BAD HYDRAULIC FILTER! I put the old one on and it worked instantly! Of course, hydraulic fluid all over the place, but at least it wasn't for naught! Will take the DOA filter back to the dealer: and bets on how they'll react?

Pisser is that it's one more thing that isn't completed (will have to get a new replacement on).

Now on to changing the coolant and getting the beast out of my shop!

 

[DieselBound]

Back to square ONE! Started the engine after draining the coolant and the pump is once again whining- lost prime.

 

[Midniteoyl]

My advise? Warm the shop up so you can spend time in there comfortably and then start from the beginning and carefully go through it. Some step was missed/overlooked. Easy to do when you're cold and rushing through it.

 

[K5lwq]

Is this a check valve that goes into the filter? It is not listed separately. Did you notice this gizmo when you change the filter?

 

[DieselBound]

K5lwq, that's a magnetic pickup. I cleaned it off (nothing really of interest found); nothing else is supposed to be done with it that I am aware of.

Swapping the old filter on and it worked until I shut it down. Nothing else changed other than topping off the fluid: am about 1/2 on the dipstick range.

For reference, here's the fluid I'm using:
TRIAX AGRA UTTO XL Tractor Hydraulic

Can I harm the pump if I just keep idling the engine and don't operate any of the hydraulic circuits? Pump really makes churning and surging noises.

 

[K5lwq]

K5lwq, that's a magnetic pickup. I cleaned it off (nothing really of interest found); nothing else is supposed to be done with it that I am aware of.

Swapping the old filter on and it worked until I shut it down. Nothing else changed other than topping off the fluid: am about 1/2 on the dipstick range.

For reference, here's the fluid I'm using:
TRIAX AGRA UTTO XL Tractor Hydraulic

Can I harm the pump if I just keep idling the engine and don't operate any of the hydraulic circuits? Pump really makes churning and surging noises.

That noise is the pump cavitating. It is passing air and yes that is hard on the pump. However, it takes some time to cause damage. It is pulling air from somewhere. This is a strange one. I sure don’t know why this would happen from a fluid change.

 

[DieselBound]

High viscosity in low temps can cause cavitation. I'm starting to suspect the fluid: all specs and reviews suggest that this is excellent fluid. Maybe get a heater running under the tractor? (yes, this was hinted at by others; fluid spec should not require this but at this point I'm doubting the fluid as it's the only think that's constant at this point)

One thing other than the fluid that is different (well, last time I changed fluid I used different fluid!) is that I have my box blade on. I've got it rocked back so that the rear of the blade rests on wooden blocks; the front edge is elevated, slightly, above the concrete floor; the top link is hydraulic with a check valve and that's what is holding it rocked back like this. I would not think that this is causing any harm/issue but I figured I'd toss it out there: unhooking the the thing is a major task (1,200 lbs, and I have no more room to work with).

 

[RjCorazza]

What about filling the hydraulic fluid from 1/2 on the stick to right to the full mark?
When you put the old filter back on did you confirm that there was not a doubled up gasket left on the case?
You mention a different fluid... What fluid are you using specifically?

 

[DieselBound]

RjCorazza, both oil filter seals accounted for (for what it's worth, when I changed my fuel filter the seal for the water sensor went missing for a while ). Oil is mentioned in post #34.

Strategy for today:

1. Start tractor and see how the pump reacts with slightly warmer temps. Ambient temps are rising (right about freezing as of 0700) and are expected to climb to 42. Figure I'm warmer this morning than yesterday morning and early afternoon. If no change then

2. Put a heater under the filter and suction line. If no change then

3. Dump fluid out of the filter. <- See if a repeat of yesterday's filter swap action will happen.

Regarding #3, that's essentially what happened when I swapped the old filter back on and things worked, briefly (who knows if the pump would have stopped- I should have just kept it running, but as I'd recently been doing a bunch of idling with the tractor, work prior to undergoing this service, I was concerned about it hitting a regen). I suspect that the pump was able to slurp up fluid along with air, that the suction pipe wasn't saturated/"clogged" with fluid. Oddly, this is the exact opposite of the calls to fill the filter with fluid (not poking at anyone, it's just that this is seemingly how it's going).

All said, I plan on running out and grabbing some Traveller Premium Tractor Hydraulic Fluid from Tractor Supply. If I need to I'll put it in, otherwise I'll have it for the next change.

 

[Robin Veerman]

I don’t think that temperature is the issue. Your ambient temperature is no where near the limit.

• Exceptional flow down to - 40 F

Just confirm that the you have the correct filters and installed them properly. Then top the fluid so that the line is at the full mark.
I’d stay with the lube that’s currently installed so that you don’t throw another variable in the mix.

 

[DieselBound]

Robin,

Yes, the specs that the manufacturer provides would suggest that this is an excellent fluid. Can those specs be trusted is the question. I am certainly inclined to not drain this fluid out: I'm currently over-quota on fluid messes!

Filters are installed correctly and are the right ones: recall that I installed the previously working hydraulic filter back on and that while it did work for a time the system ended back up to where it was when I'd had the new filter installed. I am assuming that the HST filter cannot be involved in this issue- wrong assumption?

Regarding topping off... I have read of folks over-filling in order to get their pumps pulling fluid/priming. This, however, seems to be a compensation for bad pump seals and such; I don't believe I have any such issues (only 800 hrs and no previous indication of a problem).

I'm trying to understand the logic behind why the filter change (back to the original/old one) worked for a bit. Seems that it can only come down to viscosity (pump can't overcome fluid friction).

I'll note that I have never changed fluids on my tractors during winter months. This is certainly a negative factor but it's not like I'm the first person to do so, and the first person to fail (after many hours) to get a pump to prime.