OP
DieselBound
Elite Member
Back to square ONE! Started the engine after draining the coolant and the pump is once again whining- lost prime.
NX5510 - No hydraulics after filter and fluid change
- Thread starter DieselBound
- Start date
Midniteoyl
Elite Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2013
- Messages
- 4,890
- Location
- N. W. Indiana
- Tractor
- Kioti CK3510SE HST, Ford 3400, Gizmow ZTR, Simplicity 7016H
My advise? Warm the shop up so you can spend time in there comfortably and then start from the beginning and carefully go through it. Some step was missed/overlooked. Easy to do when you're cold and rushing through it.
K5lwq
Elite Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2017
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- 4,692
- Location
- Mineola, TX
- Tractor
- Kioti LK2554, Branson 4815C, Satoh Beaver, Speedex
Is this a check valve that goes into the filter? It is not listed separately. Did you notice this gizmo when you change the filter?
OP
DieselBound
Elite Member
K5lwq, that's a magnetic pickup. I cleaned it off (nothing really of interest found); nothing else is supposed to be done with it that I am aware of.
Swapping the old filter on and it worked until I shut it down. Nothing else changed other than topping off the fluid: am about 1/2 on the dipstick range.
For reference, here's the fluid I'm using:
TRIAX AGRA UTTO XL Tractor Hydraulic
Can I harm the pump if I just keep idling the engine and don't operate any of the hydraulic circuits? Pump really makes churning and surging noises.
Swapping the old filter on and it worked until I shut it down. Nothing else changed other than topping off the fluid: am about 1/2 on the dipstick range.
For reference, here's the fluid I'm using:
TRIAX AGRA UTTO XL Tractor Hydraulic
Can I harm the pump if I just keep idling the engine and don't operate any of the hydraulic circuits? Pump really makes churning and surging noises.
K5lwq
Elite Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2017
- Messages
- 4,692
- Location
- Mineola, TX
- Tractor
- Kioti LK2554, Branson 4815C, Satoh Beaver, Speedex
That noise is the pump cavitating. It is passing air and yes that is hard on the pump. However, it takes some time to cause damage. It is pulling air from somewhere. This is a strange one. I sure don’t know why this would happen from a fluid change.
OP
DieselBound
Elite Member
High viscosity in low temps can cause cavitation. I'm starting to suspect the fluid: all specs and reviews suggest that this is excellent fluid. Maybe get a heater running under the tractor? (yes, this was hinted at by others; fluid spec should not require this but at this point I'm doubting the fluid as it's the only think that's constant at this point)
One thing other than the fluid that is different (well, last time I changed fluid I used different fluid!) is that I have my box blade on. I've got it rocked back so that the rear of the blade rests on wooden blocks; the front edge is elevated, slightly, above the concrete floor; the top link is hydraulic with a check valve and that's what is holding it rocked back like this. I would not think that this is causing any harm/issue but I figured I'd toss it out there: unhooking the the thing is a major task (1,200 lbs, and I have no more room to work with).
One thing other than the fluid that is different (well, last time I changed fluid I used different fluid!) is that I have my box blade on. I've got it rocked back so that the rear of the blade rests on wooden blocks; the front edge is elevated, slightly, above the concrete floor; the top link is hydraulic with a check valve and that's what is holding it rocked back like this. I would not think that this is causing any harm/issue but I figured I'd toss it out there: unhooking the the thing is a major task (1,200 lbs, and I have no more room to work with).
RjCorazza
Elite Member
What about filling the hydraulic fluid from 1/2 on the stick to right to the full mark?
When you put the old filter back on did you confirm that there was not a doubled up gasket left on the case?
You mention a different fluid... What fluid are you using specifically?
When you put the old filter back on did you confirm that there was not a doubled up gasket left on the case?
You mention a different fluid... What fluid are you using specifically?
OP
DieselBound
Elite Member
RjCorazza, both oil filter seals accounted for (for what it's worth, when I changed my fuel filter the seal for the water sensor went missing for a while 
). Oil is mentioned in post #34.
Strategy for today:
1. Start tractor and see how the pump reacts with slightly warmer temps. Ambient temps are rising (right about freezing as of 0700) and are expected to climb to 42. Figure I'm warmer this morning than yesterday morning and early afternoon. If no change then
2. Put a heater under the filter and suction line. If no change then
3. Dump fluid out of the filter. <- See if a repeat of yesterday's filter swap action will happen.
Regarding #3, that's essentially what happened when I swapped the old filter back on and things worked, briefly (who knows if the pump would have stopped- I should have just kept it running, but as I'd recently been doing a bunch of idling with the tractor, work prior to undergoing this service, I was concerned about it hitting a regen). I suspect that the pump was able to slurp up fluid along with air, that the suction pipe wasn't saturated/"clogged" with fluid. Oddly, this is the exact opposite of the calls to fill the filter with fluid (not poking at anyone, it's just that this is seemingly how it's going).
All said, I plan on running out and grabbing some Traveller Premium Tractor Hydraulic Fluid from Tractor Supply. If I need to I'll put it in, otherwise I'll have it for the next change.
). Oil is mentioned in post #34.Strategy for today:
1. Start tractor and see how the pump reacts with slightly warmer temps. Ambient temps are rising (right about freezing as of 0700) and are expected to climb to 42. Figure I'm warmer this morning than yesterday morning and early afternoon. If no change then
2. Put a heater under the filter and suction line. If no change then
3. Dump fluid out of the filter. <- See if a repeat of yesterday's filter swap action will happen.
Regarding #3, that's essentially what happened when I swapped the old filter back on and things worked, briefly (who knows if the pump would have stopped- I should have just kept it running, but as I'd recently been doing a bunch of idling with the tractor, work prior to undergoing this service, I was concerned about it hitting a regen). I suspect that the pump was able to slurp up fluid along with air, that the suction pipe wasn't saturated/"clogged" with fluid. Oddly, this is the exact opposite of the calls to fill the filter with fluid (not poking at anyone, it's just that this is seemingly how it's going).
All said, I plan on running out and grabbing some Traveller Premium Tractor Hydraulic Fluid from Tractor Supply. If I need to I'll put it in, otherwise I'll have it for the next change.
Robin Veerman
Platinum Member
I don’t think that temperature is the issue. Your ambient temperature is no where near the limit.
I’d stay with the lube that’s currently installed so that you don’t throw another variable in the mix.
- Exceptional flow down to - 40 F
I’d stay with the lube that’s currently installed so that you don’t throw another variable in the mix.
OP
DieselBound
Elite Member
Robin,
Yes, the specs that the manufacturer provides would suggest that this is an excellent fluid. Can those specs be trusted is the question. I am certainly inclined to not drain this fluid out: I'm currently over-quota on fluid messes!
Filters are installed correctly and are the right ones: recall that I installed the previously working hydraulic filter back on and that while it did work for a time the system ended back up to where it was when I'd had the new filter installed. I am assuming that the HST filter cannot be involved in this issue- wrong assumption?
Regarding topping off... I have read of folks over-filling in order to get their pumps pulling fluid/priming. This, however, seems to be a compensation for bad pump seals and such; I don't believe I have any such issues (only 800 hrs and no previous indication of a problem).
I'm trying to understand the logic behind why the filter change (back to the original/old one) worked for a bit. Seems that it can only come down to viscosity (pump can't overcome fluid friction).
I'll note that I have never changed fluids on my tractors during winter months. This is certainly a negative factor but it's not like I'm the first person to do so, and the first person to fail (after many hours) to get a pump to prime.
Yes, the specs that the manufacturer provides would suggest that this is an excellent fluid. Can those specs be trusted is the question. I am certainly inclined to not drain this fluid out: I'm currently over-quota on fluid messes!
Filters are installed correctly and are the right ones: recall that I installed the previously working hydraulic filter back on and that while it did work for a time the system ended back up to where it was when I'd had the new filter installed. I am assuming that the HST filter cannot be involved in this issue- wrong assumption?
Regarding topping off... I have read of folks over-filling in order to get their pumps pulling fluid/priming. This, however, seems to be a compensation for bad pump seals and such; I don't believe I have any such issues (only 800 hrs and no previous indication of a problem).
I'm trying to understand the logic behind why the filter change (back to the original/old one) worked for a bit. Seems that it can only come down to viscosity (pump can't overcome fluid friction).
I'll note that I have never changed fluids on my tractors during winter months. This is certainly a negative factor but it's not like I'm the first person to do so, and the first person to fail (after many hours) to get a pump to prime.