Minnesota to try and ban gas powered equipment

[dstig1]

First off, I think banning IC engines is a pie in the sky idea, but I also thought five years ago I'd never own a battery tool of any sort, and now I am replacing my Stihl gas powered stuff with battery powered stuff, they work good and are lighter. Did I do it to save the environment? No, I got sick of cleaning out carburetors when I forgot to drain the gas.

I agree that the climate religion folks tend to have a "sky is falling" attitude, however the same could be said for the anti-climate religion folks. The truth is somewhere in between.

I can remember the very first Earth Day, our high school science departments created a room that had the same atmospheric condition of LA smog, us farm boys were encouraged to walk in and see what it was like. Quite honestly, I doubted every thing that I was being told, but overtime a lot of what they said was determined to be true especially about the use of lead in our gasoline.

Facts can change over time as more data is developed. A prime example would be Einstein's theory of relativity, what was accepted as fact for many years is now possibly wrong.
When people start sprouting facts to me, I usually ask them where they're data came from and make up my own mind.

By the way, I gave you a good post earlier because I thought your response was well thought out and well written, it didn't seem to have any personal agenda or attack in it, I enjoy good discussion and like to be challenged.

Even a couple years ago I would have said banning ICE's was pie in the sky also. I am no longer so sure. In neighboring MN, the D's tipped the senate to a very slight majority and kept their also slight majority in the house last fall. Well they are now behaving like they got 90% of the seats and just ramming through all sorts of things that are starting to border on extreme, so this would not surprise me. They already mandated that all electricity must be carbon free by 2040. To blazes with the laws of physics! The overreach is astounding every time this crew gets the slightest majority these days. You saw it in the Federal govt after 2020 too. No compromise, just ramming speed!

So yeah, I am very concerned they are going to do something dumb like this. Often these arguments devolve into screaming matches over one side saying that the other side wants no regulations and to poison the earth and the other side saying the opposite side wants everything to stop. From what I see, the second one is much closer to reality. I refer to the environmentalist crowd as the "No, Nothing, Never" crowd because that is how they approach Every. Single. New Project. First off they say No to it. So you ask them what would be acceptable. The response to that is not compromise but "nothing" will be acceptable. When will they come around? "never". When you oppose absolutely every bit of development all the time, it becomes ridiculous to deal with. The goal appears to be delay and add costs to everything so fewer things can get done. They know that eventually they will lose most of the time, but if they just just stretch it out and make it more costly, then that many fewer things will get done. And this is progress? But that is the mindset here, and it is existentially dangerous to society, IMO.

I will buy and use battery tools as I see fit and as they make sense. Same with Gas tools. You want to win the argument, make better stuff.

 

[airbiscuit]

Don't worry.

1. That bill is not going to pass
2. You live in Wisconsin

 

[dstig1]

Don't worry.

1. That bill is not going to pass
2. You live in Wisconsin

1. I'm not so sure
2. Why yes. Yes, I do . And I thank God for the wisdom to make that decision many, many years ago. Though I do work in MN and live right near the border by Minneapolis/St. Paul, so it dominates the news here. We see much more about what goes on in MN than WI in general.

 

[Hay Dude]

Cities suck!
City people suck!
We need more factories producing things here in the US!
Where do factories locate?
Near cities.
Why?
Because they need a workforce.
I'll never live or work in a city!
I'm a farmer!
Hey, we're getting a new factory!
New factories are taking up farmland!
Factories suck!

Not very funny and also quite inaccurate.
Also, there hasn’t been a “factory” built on farmland around here in decades or in a city for that matter.

 

[Fixastuff]

Some of the biggest polluters are two stroke outboard engines...there are very limited electric outboard options...the realistic alternative is four stroke outboards...

I went snorling in Mexico and this big deal was made about not wearing sunscreen while snorkeling. Then you get taken out there in a little two stroke boat with dozens of other ones with other groups. You could smell and taste the oil and fuel in the ocean but sunscreen is the problem?? Lol.

 

[ddbackhoe]

And that is the problem. It is a belief. Not a fact. Every regulation has 2 sides to it: benefits and downsides/costs. Both must be considered in the balance. But the climate religion will not consider that there are any downsides as it has gone well beyond any semblance of facts.

That is what our regulators do best, damn the facts full speed ahead on agenda.

 

[ddbackhoe]

regulations dreamed up by panels of regulators that are homeowners,

Quite a few arent even at that level. They rent or live in “condos”. Oh not so long ago, one of them couldnt believe her new job didnt pay for the rent in a new town.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Valid points today. If the progress made in the last 5 years is an indicator of future progress then I think the gap will close for the majority of users and purchasers of new equipment. Lot’s of HOA’s requiring battery tools today.

Bad enough when the neighbors try to stick their nose in, but give them a kittle bit of “power” and the fun really begins.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Democracy is rule by the majority but so is gang rape. The market will cater to the numbers but will provide for the minority if there is profit, government rules no so much.

Any group that is allowed to vote while talking to their stockbroker is only looking after profit.

 

[Hay Dude]

Quite a few arent even at that level. They rent or live in “condos”. Oh not so long ago, one of them couldnt believe her new job didnt pay for the rent in a new town.

Quite a difference, isn’t it? And it makes a huge difference when it comes to what new regulations we get.

Long ago, many of our leaders were farmers or business owners. Today, I don’t think there’s but a handful of them. There may be a few more business owners.

Comical when you complain about regulations, then one from the rules/regs crowd starts chirping about how the complainers want to go back to child labor.

You can’t win. It’s more regulations with each passing year until the act of mowing your lawn becomes criminal. Don’t laugh, right now you can be fined in some communities for running a gas blower.

And it will only keep getting worse as the emotional teenagers in charge (the new “red guard) takes over the country.

Good thing I only have 20 years left to work. Lord help us. We need adult/common sense intervention and we need it now.

 

[MossRoad]

Not very funny and also quite inaccurate.
Also, there hasn’t been a “factory” built on farmland around here in decades or in a city for that matter.

It wasn't meant to be funny. It's a pretty accurate assessment of some of the comments. Here, there are factories and warehouses going up on farmland. In town, the old factories are being torn down and/or repurposed and new smaller factories and research facilities are being built on the old grounds.

Who's selling the farmland for factories? Farmers.

 

[Hay Dude]

It wasn't meant to be funny. It's a pretty accurate assessment of some of the comments. Here, there are factories and warehouses going up on farmland. In town, the old factories are being torn down and/or repurposed and new smaller factories and research facilities are being built on the old grounds.

Who's selling the farmland for factories? Farmers.

Wonder why?
I’m thinking we are seeing the offshoring of agriculture now.
Read up on how much beef & seafood comes from outside the US, or how produce once grown in CA now comes from Mexico or Central America?

Warehouses? Hmmmm, wonder why? Is it to store all the imported stuff we no longer make?
Factories? You have to be kidding
For every factory built in the rust belt in the last 50 years, I bet 200 have been torn down.

More reliance on China. More vulnerability to supply shortages. More sketchy foods from other countries grown in God-knows-what conditions. More mystery medicines & supplements from China.

Yumm-my give me more of those things stored in warehouses built on farmland. You can have that crap. I’ll keep pushing for more made in USA whenever possible by cutting taxes and regulations and not teaching kids that you’re a “loser” if you don’t go to college and work in an office.

This country is way off track and many Americans seem to agree, but here we are regulating more and more of what we use, drive, eat and medicate offshore.

We are toast in a real war or another serious epidemic.

 

[ArlyA]

Gee, most of my family grow small grains, beef and none of that is shipped in from over seas. And they own the land.

 

[Hay Dude]

Gee, well we import more beef than you could ever imagine.
3.35 Billion pounds in 2021 to be exact

Look at the line “meats” in the chart below. Notice a trend in meats, seafood, vegetables and fruits?
All have increased in imports.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/DataFiles/53736/Alltables.xlsx?v=7511.1

Don’t know what ownership of your cousins land has to do with anything?

Better watch MN doesn’t start regulating ATV usage…..that 6x6 of yours probably cranks out a lot of tailpipe emmissions. You could just use 2 horses to drag your trail branches out of the woods, right?

 

[ddbackhoe]

Gee, well we import more beef than you could ever imagine.
3.35 Billion pounds in 2021 to be exact

Any dairies in your neighborhood (not counting Pa)? All of ours are gone. Dont think anyone int the area even has milkers beside some Amish farms. Their excess milk gets shipped to Pa or Va (~2.5 hrs one way)

 

[MossRoad]

Gee, well we import more beef than you could ever imagine.
3.35 Billion pounds in 2021 to be exact
View attachment 785908


Look at the line “meats” in the chart below. Notice a trend in meats, seafood, vegetables and fruits?
All have increased in imports.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/DataFiles/53736/Alltables.xlsx?v=7511.1

Don’t know what ownership of your cousins land has to do with anything?

Better watch MN doesn’t start regulating ATV usage…..that 6x6 of yours probably cranks out a lot of tailpipe emmissions. You could just use 2 horses to drag your trail branches out of the woods, right?

The United States is the highest beef producer globally, but it is also the second-largest importer. Overall, imports accounted for 10 percent of total U.S. beef supply in 2021. U.S. producers specialize in raising grain-fed cattle, which yields beef that commands the highest exports by value in the world. Conversely, most imports consist of lower-value, grass-fed lean “trimmings”— fat and muscle tissue remaining after processing a carcass. Because of U.S. cattle’s grain-fed diet, domestically produced trimmings require lean product to balance its high fat content and achieve the proper lean-to-fat ratio for making ground beef. As a result, these beef imports add value to U.S. producers. According to the USDA's National Agricultural Statistics Service (NASS) Cattle Inventory Survey, the U.S. beef cattle herd began contracting in 2019, falling from 31.69 on January 1, 2019, to 31.34 million head on January 1, 2020. Consequently, NASS’s January 1 survey shows the U.S. calf crop falling as well since 2019, leading to a decline in the overall herd size, which has continued into 2022. Meanwhile, high retail prices, firm consumer demand, and drought conditions in the Southern Plains have spurred additional cattle slaughter which reduced stocks of replacement heifers and beef cows. Despite fewer slaughter cattle on hand, the United States continued to be a net exporter of beef muscle cuts in 2021. This trend is expected to continue in 2022, but not in 2023 as tighter supplies begin to catch up with beef exports. In 2022, beef import1 pace has slowed from its record first quarter. High cow slaughter rates and large cold storage inventories have since bolstered domestic beef supplies. Nevertheless, 2022 beef imports are projected to be the highest since 2005. Thus far in 2022, the United States is exporting more beef on a volume basis, and is expected to remain a net exporter. In 2023, tighter cattle supplies will reduce exportable supplies, preventing further growth.

From here:

Reviewing the Tariff-Rate Quotas for U.S. Beef Imports

The United States is the world’s largest producer of beef and its second-largest importer. Imports mostly consist of lean trimmings used for processing into...

www.fas.usda.gov

What that there says is that the US has to import lean grass fed beef to mix into their fatty grain fed beef to make ground beef with the proper fat content.


Maybe this should have been posted in the "Tell us something we don't know" thread.

 

[ArlyA]

I always get a charge when hearing "they don't grow whatever in the US any more".

 

[ruffdog]

Here, there are factories and warehouses going up on farmland. In town, the old factories are being torn down and/or repurposed and new smaller factories and research facilities are being built on the old grounds.

Who's selling the farmland for factories? Farmers.

Same here. Entire industrial parks being built on some of the best farmland around.

 

[Citydude]

Same here. Entire industrial parks being built on some of the best farmland around.

All built powered with battery operated tools?

 

[Hay Dude]

Yeah but they’re mostly trucking terminals for imported goods.
I bet 1 factory goes up for every 100 that gets shut down.

Hey if you think we are going in the right direction, good for you.
I say our current direction sucks