Does Anyone Buy Used Tractors?

[ning]

6 years ago when I bought, I'd been looking for a used tractor for three years.
The used market anywhere near here was either 20-30 year old heavily worked tractors for a surprising amount of money, or 20-100 hr practically new tractors for... brand new prices.

I wasn't interested in a heavily worked tractor; I'm willing to do some wrenching if it's actually going to save me a lot of money, but this was like buying a car with 300k miles for 50% new car price. A total non-starter.

For the almost-new tractors, if I'm going to pay new price, I'm getting a new tractor, with a full warranty. Multiple times I've bought "almost new" cars - 10-12k miles, one year old, for about 70% of new price. That's what I had in mind when looking for an almost new tractor. Paying literally new prices basically told me that the guy selling it got a raw deal at the dealer, but I'd been to the dealer and knew what price to expect for brand new. Once again, I'm not paying new price for not-new.

So, I ended up paying a fair new price for a brand-new full-warranty (which I did not use: not unhappy about that!) tractor.

I've bought a couple attachments for cut rates at auction (unused but weathered), and I'm always on the lookout for more attachments on CL, but once again if you've got something used to sell, I'm not going near it if you're asking new price.

 

[DK35vince]

What you say is true. But I do all maintenance myself and have rarely needed dealer repairs for my past 2 machines. It’s not something that is needed often, and I’m OK with paying for those rare occasions that require dealer service.

I've seen the costs of having tier IV diesels repaired where I work.
I will keep the tractor I have. (Pre emission)

 

[kenmac]

I bought used because zero DPF, DEF, etc,. I also bought a used 105 HP non emissions tractor tractor for what a new 75 hp emissions tractor cost

 

[mo1]

I'm not saying somethings they improved on but think of what you are saying with vehicles and tractors. Most of those things you replaced on a vehicle aren't even on a tractor. And with a vehicle electronic ignition was an improvement over points. But then some idiot decided a coil for each cylinder was better than one for all cylinders. Then they put a computer in to monitor the engine with a million sensors to talk to the computer. Now they did that to tractors over 25hp so they had to add all those sensors. So now when you have a problem you can't fix it without taking it to the dealer. So now you either need a trailer or the dealer will charge you to haul it there and back. And then you go without till they get the parts, fix it, and bring it back. That's why I'll buy used that I can fix myself.

Coil on plug setups are actually a noticeable improvement over the earlier electronic ignition setups with conventional plug wires, particularly the later higher-voltage setups. The plug wires usually had a pretty short lifespan with those and the engine would run poorly when a plug wire failed as it would miss. The high-voltage portion of a coil on plug setup is much shorter and appears to be far better insulated, and I've not had any trouble with those.

6 years ago when I bought, I'd been looking for a used tractor for three years.
The used market anywhere near here was either 20-30 year old heavily worked tractors for a surprising amount of money, or 20-100 hr practically new tractors for... brand new prices.

I wasn't interested in a heavily worked tractor; I'm willing to do some wrenching if it's actually going to save me a lot of money, but this was like buying a car with 300k miles for 50% new car price. A total non-starter.

For the almost-new tractors, if I'm going to pay new price, I'm getting a new tractor, with a full warranty. Multiple times I've bought "almost new" cars - 10-12k miles, one year old, for about 70% of new price. That's what I had in mind when looking for an almost new tractor. Paying literally new prices basically told me that the guy selling it got a raw deal at the dealer, but I'd been to the dealer and knew what price to expect for brand new. Once again, I'm not paying new price for not-new.

So, I ended up paying a fair new price for a brand-new full-warranty (which I did not use: not unhappy about that!) tractor.

I've bought a couple attachments for cut rates at auction (unused but weathered), and I'm always on the lookout for more attachments on CL, but once again if you've got something used to sell, I'm not going near it if you're asking new price.

Tractors in average condition and with an average number of hours for age generally sell used for about the same number of dollars as they did new.

Remember that the lifespan of a tractor is a lot longer than that of a road vehicle. A tractor generally needs an overhaul at about 10,000 hours and most anything utility-sized and larger has a wet sleeve engine that often can be overhauled "in frame" without even needing to pull the engine. This is similar to many medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks, and they have operational lifespans of many hundreds of thousands or even a million or more miles as while rebuilds aren't cheap, they are usually done as they are more economical than buying a new machine. Your typical car/SUV/some light trucks with an aluminum-blocked engine that can't be rebuilt and a sealed slushbox transmission is a much different animal, those generally have a lifespan of about 250k miles and the engines in particular are very rarely replaced when they are worn out- the vehicle is junked at that time. Tractors also are work machines and thus things that people care about in a car, such as if it's the latest-generation model or if the interior is a little dingy from use, are not important in the least with a tractor. Tractor prices are basically "what percentage of life before major overhaul is still left" for newer machines, which is why a one-year-old tractor with a couple hundred hours is going to sell for almost new prices but a one-year-old car with 10,000 miles won't.

The number of hours put on a tractor varies depending on the size of tractor and how it was used. Most compacts are used about 50-75 hours per year and a pretty typical figure on an ag tractor is about 150-250 hours per year. A typical 20 year old machine would have 3000-5000 hours and that would be only about 1/3 or 1/2 of the way to a rebuild, so it would have a lot of life left. If you put it in car lifespan terms, that 20 year old tractor would be like buying a used car with 80k-120k miles and still have a lot of life left, not be pretty much all used up like a 20 year old car with 250k or so miles would be.

 

[finn1]

Coil on plug setups are actually a noticeable improvement over the earlier electronic ignition setups with conventional plug wires, particularly the later higher-voltage setups. The plug wires usually had a pretty short lifespan with those and the engine would run poorly when a plug wire failed as it would miss. The high-voltage portion of a coil on plug setup is much shorter and appears to be far better insulated, and I've not had any trouble with those.



Tractors in average condition and with an average number of hours for age generally sell used for about the same number of dollars as they did new.

Remember that the lifespan of a tractor is a lot longer than that of a road vehicle. A tractor generally needs an overhaul at about 10,000 hours and most anything utility-sized and larger has a wet sleeve engine that often can be overhauled "in frame" without even needing to pull the engine. This is similar to many medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks, and they have operational lifespans of many hundreds of thousands or even a million or more miles as while rebuilds aren't cheap, they are usually done as they are more economical than buying a new machine. Your typical car/SUV/some light trucks with an aluminum-blocked engine that can't be rebuilt and a sealed slushbox transmission is a much different animal, those generally have a lifespan of about 250k miles and the engines in particular are very rarely replaced when they are worn out- the vehicle is junked at that time. Tractors also are work machines and thus things that people care about in a car, such as if it's the latest-generation model or if the interior is a little dingy from use, are not important in the least with a tractor. Tractor prices are basically "what percentage of life before major overhaul is still left" for newer machines, which is why a one-year-old tractor with a couple hundred hours is going to sell for almost new prices but a one-year-old car with 10,000 miles won't.

The number of hours put on a tractor varies depending on the size of tractor and how it was used. Most compacts are used about 50-75 hours per year and a pretty typical figure on an ag tractor is about 150-250 hours per year. A typical 20 year old machine would have 3000-5000 hours and that would be only about 1/3 or 1/2 of the way to a rebuild, so it would have a lot of life left. If you put it in car lifespan terms, that 20 year old tractor would be like buying a used car with 80k-120k miles and still have a lot of life left, not be pretty much all used up like a 20 year old car with 250k or so miles would be.

You’re looking at heavy, high power farm tractors in your dissertation, not scut, cut, and utility sized tractors that most in this forum have. A farm tractor may get 2000 hours or more in a year, while these smaller tractors never accumulate that many hours in the owner’s lifetime.

The smaller tractors don’t have replaceable sleeves, nor do any medium duty trucks, except at the highest level of the class. Wet sleeve engines are pretty much limited to class 8 trucks, or at least class 7 abov 40000 lb gvwr.

 

[scootr]

There are some assumptions being made here about the price and condition of used tractors vs new, as to which is the better value.
There really are so many variables. Like buying a used car. Not everybody has the skills to find and buy a good one.
Some people have spent a lifetime buying used and they know how to find the right machine at the right price. They do their research. They know what is available. What they need. And when their search lands close to the mark they are able to weigh the savings and the compromises to make a good choice.
Usually these people have saved or benefitted greatly over their lifetime buying 2nd hand stuff that if a purchase does actually go bad they can absorb it financially and mentally.
Other people lack this experience and these buying skills and are just better off paying dealer price for new with the warranty etc.

 

[Hay Dude]

You’re looking at heavy, high power farm tractors in your dissertation, not scut, cut, and utility sized tractors that most in this forum have. A farm tractor may get 2000 hours or more in a year, while these smaller tractors never accumulate that many hours in the owner’s lifetime.

The smaller tractors don’t have replaceable sleeves, nor do any medium duty trucks, except at the highest level of the class. Wet sleeve engines are pretty much limited to class 8 trucks, or at least class 7 abov 40000 lb gvwr.

2000 hours or more? Doubt that.

 

[LouNY]

My NH 8060 is a high hour tractor with 12,000 hours, it is also a 96 model,
So 27 years old, so roughly 444 hours per year for an average.

My IH 574 was also bought used over 20 years ago.
It has over 9000 hours on it.
added; it's a 1971 or 72 model.

Both of these are excellent starting tractors and seem to be in decent shape.
The 574 stays hooked to the pto generator trailer, ready to start and go for days if needed.
Unless I need another tractor on something or the Branson goes down. Like it did a couple of years ago
lost the water pump in a big snow storm. Dropped the generator of and put the snow blower on the 574
and up and going fairly quickly.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

My NH 8060 is a high hour tractor with 12,000 hours, it is also a 96 model,
So 27 years old, so roughly 444 hours per year for an average.

My IH 574 was also bought used over 20 years ago.
It has over 9000 hours on it.

Both of these are excellent starting tractors and seem to be in decent shape.
The 574 stays hooked to the pto generator trailer, ready to start and go for days if needed.
Unless I need another tractor on something or the Branson goes down. Like it did a couple of years ago
lost the water pump in a big snow storm. Dropped the generator of and put the snow blower on the 574
and up and going fairly quickly.

Our loader tractor was a 574… it also ran wide open, headers glowing, on our silage blower. That thing had a horribly hard life, and rarely complained. That is a well built machine.

 

[LouNY]

We went through a large variety of silage blowing tractors depending on what was available and what silos we were using.
When using the old wood stave silos and the Papec chopper blower or the table blower it was the WD Chalmers and a flat belt drive.
When we went up to the early self unloading wagons and the first table blower the Farmall 400 had been replaced by the Farmall 560
so the 400 went on the blower.
That was also about the time the first concrete stave silo went up on the farm an 18? x 70 footer by that time we also had a Ford 5000, and an IH 656 hydro.
Then the Ford 8000 hit the yard and the 656 was the blower tractor and a couple of more 70 ft concrete stave silos and a 1066 IH to the fleet
with the Ford 8000 on the blower.
Then the fist IH Magnums came in a 7110, then a 7230 and a 7120, and a green one slid in a hopped up 4430, and a 1286
Then another new Deere I don't recall the model it was a troublesome thing it had an intermediate drive shaft between the engine and the transmission that couldn't be lubricated, it was repaired under warranty a few times and then upgraded to the new series that could be lubricated.
Didn't keep it much longer and the PUMA 125 came in then a NH 6050, and a few used Deeres 4020, another 4430. And a couple of Ih 10 series
for road hauling, ex hot farm pulling tractors that can haul fast on the roads.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

We went through a large variety of silage blowing tractors depending on what was available and what silos we were using.
When using the old wood stave silos and the Papec chopper blower or the table blower it was the WD Chalmers and a flat belt drive.
When we went up to the early self unloading wagons and the first table blower the Farmall 400 had been replaced by the Farmall 560
so the 400 went on the blower.
That was also about the time the first concrete stave silo went up on the farm an 18? x 70 footer by that time we also had a Ford 5000, and an IH 656 hydro.
Then the Ford 8000 hit the yard and the 656 was the blower tractor and a couple of more 70 ft concrete stave silos and a 1066 IH to the fleet
with the Ford 8000 on the blower.
Then the fist IH Magnums came in a 7110, then a 7230 and a 7120, and a green one slid in a hopped up 4430, and a 1286
Then another new Deere I don't recall the model it was a troublesome thing it had an intermediate drive shaft between the engine and the transmission that couldn't be lubricated, it was repaired under warranty a few times and then upgraded to the new series that could be lubricated.
Didn't keep it much longer and the PUMA 125 came in then a NH 6050, and a few used Deeres 4020, another 4430. And a couple of Ih 10 series
for road hauling, ex hot farm pulling tractors that can haul fast on the roads.

We would blow into an 80’ Harvestore silo with the 574

 

[oosik]

I would have considered it. If there were any used tractors under 250 hp in this neck of the woods. Same for used implements also.

 

[Tractorable]

I choose one of two paths. Either pay cash for old used equipment that I can wrench on myself or finance new and hold. In recent years I’ve moved more towards buy new and hold.

Tractors are expensive and most folks don’t have the cash laying around to purchase out right, or it’s wiser to keep your cash invested in a liquid account working for you rather than in a depreciating asset. Doesn’t make sense to borrow at high interest rates for used equipment that costs nearly as much as new.

Also, depends on what phase of life you’re in. If you have a full time job and young children, there’s no time for wrenching on equipment, you need something that starts and runs every time. If you’re retired you can be choosy about how and when you do things.

 

[Jimbo16720]

Anything can break no matter what the age. I've seen new break and old break. If I can find what I'm looking for at a decent price, I'm not worried about the age, I can fix it myself. Some young kids can't even change a flat tire anymore. I learned by doing it and am glad I did.

 

[mo1]

You’re looking at heavy, high power farm tractors in your dissertation, not scut, cut, and utility sized tractors that most in this forum have. A farm tractor may get 2000 hours or more in a year, while these smaller tractors never accumulate that many hours in the owner’s lifetime.

The smaller tractors don’t have replaceable sleeves, nor do any medium duty trucks, except at the highest level of the class. Wet sleeve engines are pretty much limited to class 8 trucks, or at least class 7 abov 40000 lb gvwr.

I was specifically discussing utility sized and larger tractors as that is often the smallest tractor where the manufacturer actually makes the entire tractor including the engine. All of Deere's current utility tractors have either the 3029 or 4045 engine, both of which are wet-sleeve engines. Kubota's and CNH/FPT's websites have fairly little information, from elsewhere it looks like the FPT four-cylinders are dry sleeve (F34, N45) as well as Kubota's V3800 and larger engines used in their utility tractors appear to be dry sleeve engines. I can't find anything on the 3 cylinder FPT R22 in the NH Workmaster 50/60/70 and CaseIH Farmall 50A/60A/70A. With older tractors, most New Generation and later Deeres are sleeved, so were tractors using Perkins and Continental engines, many Internationals, and some Cases were sleeved too. Anything with a B or C Cummins and many Fords were parent bore.

Regarding trucks, the International/Navistar DT/HT (such as the DT466) and the later MaxxForce DT/9/10 were all wet sleeve engines and were widely used in medium-duty trucks.

2000 hours is a huge number of hours per year, that's 8 hours a day, 5 days per week, 50 weeks per year. 200 hours per year is more typical of a utility tractor. Rarely do you see more than 500 hours per year on a tractor.

 

[finn1]

2000 hours or more? Doubt that.

Central Valley in California is where I saw that when I worked in Engineering for the Red Tractor company in the seventies and eighties.

Not common for small operations, but seen sometimes with the big guys.

 

[finn1]

I was specifically discussing utility sized and larger tractors as that is often the smallest tractor where the manufacturer actually makes the entire tractor including the engine. All of Deere's current utility tractors have either the 3029 or 4045 engine, both of which are wet-sleeve engines. Kubota's and CNH/FPT's websites have fairly little information, from elsewhere it looks like the FPT four-cylinders are dry sleeve (F34, N45) as well as Kubota's V3800 and larger engines used in their utility tractors appear to be dry sleeve engines. I can't find anything on the 3 cylinder FPT R22 in the NH Workmaster 50/60/70 and CaseIH Farmall 50A/60A/70A. With older tractors, most New Generation and later Deeres are sleeved, so were tractors using Perkins and Continental engines, many Internationals, and some Cases were sleeved too. Anything with a B or C Cummins and many Fords were parent bore.

Regarding trucks, the International/Navistar DT/HT (such as the DT466) and the later MaxxForce DT/9/10 were all wet sleeve engines and were widely used in medium-duty trucks.

2000 hours is a huge number of hours per year, that's 8 hours a day, 5 days per week, 50 weeks per year. 200 hours per year is more typical of a utility tractor. Rarely do you see more than 500 hours per year on a tractor.

You’re talking about tractors that have been out of production for thirty or forty years. International for one hasn’t made a small or medium sI e wet sleeve tractor engine since the mid eighties, and nobody that I know of makes a dry sleeve Diesel anymore. Perkins was probably the last. They’re all parent bore engines that have to be pulled and over bored now.

The 466 was discontinued almost ten years ago, as was the 530 and 570. Volume was pretty low the last few years.

Larger, class 8 Cummins, Detroit, and the more recent European Derived engines are Wet sleeves.

The Deere three cylinder is a relic from the late sixties or early seventies. Good engine, but not very cost effective, which is w it’s not used anymore in their smaller equipment. I had one in my skid steer, but they switched to lower cost parent bore engines shortly after mine was made. That would be over ten years ago.

That’s why the DT466 engine was discontinued. Customers liked the wet sleeves, but simply wouldn’t pay the premium in a medium truck. Navistar uses Cummins B series purchased engines to cover that market now.

 

[tradosaurus]

I agree, new tractors are very expensive now, but it is better to spend more money on a new one than to buy a tractor and spend money on repairing parts

Buy once, cry once.

It's like buying side by sides. Ad says never mudded, never sunk. Yeah, right.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I like to buy vehicles, houses and tractors with just enough use to prove they work. Don’t have a dealer very close for anything. So manufacturer makes no difference. Just had to pay $40 shipping to get $20 of hydraulic fluid shipped to me. So if it has some use it proves it works and the dealer kinks are out. That is what I look for, nationwide.

 

[Hay Dude]

I was specifically discussing utility sized and larger tractors as that is often the smallest tractor where the manufacturer actually makes the entire tractor including the engine. All of Deere's current utility tractors have either the 3029 or 4045 engine, both of which are wet-sleeve engines. Kubota's and CNH/FPT's websites have fairly little information, from elsewhere it looks like the FPT four-cylinders are dry sleeve (F34, N45) as well as Kubota's V3800 and larger engines used in their utility tractors appear to be dry sleeve engines. I can't find anything on the 3 cylinder FPT R22 in the NH Workmaster 50/60/70 and CaseIH Farmall 50A/60A/70A. With older tractors, most New Generation and later Deeres are sleeved, so were tractors using Perkins and Continental engines, many Internationals, and some Cases were sleeved too. Anything with a B or C Cummins and many Fords were parent bore.

Regarding trucks, the International/Navistar DT/HT (such as the DT466) and the later MaxxForce DT/9/10 were all wet sleeve engines and were widely used in medium-duty trucks.

2000 hours is a huge number of hours per year, that's 8 hours a day, 5 days per week, 50 weeks per year. 200 hours per year is more typical of a utility tractor. Rarely do you see more than 500 hours per year on a tractor.

I’d guess 1 in every 100,000 tractors gets 2000 hours a year on it. Thats an insane number of hours. Even 750 hours a year is considered a lot

In-framing a DT is so common, they have the rebuild kits complete with sleeves, pistons, etc.