another hiccup to going solar?

[bnold]

But yeah, I know…..China’s air pollution stays within their borders.

A vast majority of it does. Does it impact US? Sure to a small extent.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1312860111

Not really different from the pollution centers of America (generally city/industrial centers), does it effect me in East Texas? Sure. But, not like living in the middle of LA.

50 Years of Progress

The Southland's War on Smog: Fifty Years of Progress Toward Clean Air (May 1997)

www.aqmd.gov

 

[Hay Dude]

A vast majority of it does. Does it impact US? Sure to a small extent.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1312860111

Not really different from the pollution centers of America (generally city/industrial centers), does it effect me in East Texas? Sure. But, not like living in the middle of LA.

50 Years of Progress

The Southland's War on Smog: Fifty Years of Progress Toward Clean Air (May 1997)

www.aqmd.gov

How about China’s more immediate neighbors? Australia? Japan? etc.
Don’t they practice cleaner air standards than China (the “developing nation”)?

The world isn’t just the USA and China, right?

 

[orezok]

And then we sell coal to Chia, one of the world’s worst polluters and still a “developing nation” status?

That’s like a drug pusher selling drugs to a heavy user.

This country’s “leadership” is so hypocritical.

But yeah, I know…..China’s air pollution stays within their borders.

The best numbers I could find is that we mine about 600 million tons of coal annually. Of that amount, we export 2 million tons to China. Your position is smoke and mirrors.

 

[Torvy]

The best numbers I could find is that we mine about 600 million tons of coal annually. Of that amount, we export 2 million tons to China. Your position is smoke and mirrors.

Sounds like research is not your strong suit...it took 30 seconds to find that you understated the exports by about 12X. Also important to look at the fact that China is a close second to India in buying US coal.

Facts & Figures – US Coal Exports

uscoalexports.org

 

[Williy]

Is it really worth having and hooking up to the grid???
First is the cost of equipment to do so and then you have the cost of an electrician and I read someplace
that this person is hooked up to the grid with solar he
pays 17 cents for grid power and any excess that he
sends back he gets 3 cents that's 14 cents difference
Also the batteries that people use for solar cost approx
$1400+ per battery with 100 AH I'm cheap I will not
pay that much when I can get 4 or 5 8 or 900 cca
batteries and keep the voltage up will last almost as
long at the lithium batteries. Just 10 of the lithium
batteries is over $14K. Then you have all the other
equipment to purchase and then if you have some one
to install a system you are looking at approx $30k to
$50K You can purchase your inverters with chargers and solar panels for about half of the price of those batteries

willy

 

[Hay Dude]

Sounds like research is not your strong suit...it took 30 seconds to find that you understated the exports by about 12X. Also important to look at the fact that China is a close second to India in buying US coal.

Facts & Figures – US Coal Exports

uscoalexports.org

You gotta watch them like a hawk. They look something up on wikipedia and it’s like gospel truth to them.
Maybe it follows the “we chose truth over facts” dogma.

 

[TN8Man]

Is it really worth having and hooking up to the grid???
First is the cost of equipment to do so and then you have the cost of an electrician and I read someplace
that this person is hooked up to the grid with solar he
pays 17 cents for grid power and any excess that he
sends back he gets 3 cents that's 14 cents difference
Also the batteries that people use for solar cost approx
$1400+ per battery with 100 AH I'm cheap I will not
pay that much when I can get 4 or 5 8 or 900 cca
batteries and keep the voltage up will last almost as
long at the lithium batteries. Just 10 of the lithium
batteries is over $14K. Then you have all the other
equipment to purchase and then if you have some one
to install a system you are looking at approx $30k to
$50K You can purchase your inverters with chargers and solar panels for about half of the price of those batteries

willy

You can get 100 ah lithium batteries now for under $400 but even at that lower price you would need a whole lot of batteries to run your home until the sun or wind came back. And if you want to run HVAC or any 220V system you are pretty much out of luck, even with a garage full of batteries.

The lower cost lithium batteries are good news for the RV and boats though.

 

[MossRoad]

The best numbers I could find is that we mine about 600 million tons of coal annually. Of that amount, we export 2 million tons to China. Your position is smoke and mirrors.

The US is a net exporter of coal... we export more than we import.

Our largest customer is India, followed by China, Japan, and the Netherlands.

Great read here:

Coal imports and exports - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Amounts of annual U.S. coal imports and exports, top five destination countries of U.S. coal exports, and top five source countries of U.S. coal imports.

www.eia.gov

 

[bnold]

How about China’s more immediate neighbors? Australia? Japan? etc.
Don’t they practice cleaner air standards than China (the “developing nation”)?

The world isn’t just the USA and China, right?

Winds aren’t taking it to Australia.

 

[orezok]

You gotta watch them like a hawk. They look something up on wikipedia and it’s like gospel truth to them.
Maybe it follows the “we chose truth over facts” dogma.

OK, Granted, but it only amounts to 2% of our coal production. Still smoke and mirrors.

 

[bnold]

Is it really worth having and hooking up to the grid???
First is the cost of equipment to do so and then you have the cost of an electrician and I read someplace
that this person is hooked up to the grid with solar he
pays 17 cents for grid power and any excess that he
sends back he gets 3 cents that's 14 cents difference

willy

Depends on location and power company, I sell mine back for the exact rate I purchase for.

Therefore a battery system makes zero sense for me. Negative payback period.

For some more complex situations, stored power sold back during peak demand times can pencil out pretty nice with batteries.

For some situations, the sell back rate is a fraction of the purchase rate (which I think is BS)



$1.33/W installed here.

 

[TN8Man]

I just read a news article where the power companies in California are requesting a change to the way customers are billed. They want it changed to a fixed rate based on income.

• Households earning less than $28,000 a year would pay a fixed charge of $15 a month on their electric bills in Edison and PG&E territories and $24 a month in SDG&E territory.
• Households with annual income from $28,000 – $69,000 would pay $20 a month in Edison territory, $34 a month in SDG&E territory and $30 a month in PG&E territory.
• Households earning from $69,000 – $180,000 would pay $51 a month in Edison and PG&E territories and $73 a month in SDG&E territory.
• Those with incomes above $180,000 would pay $85 a month in Edison territory, $128 a month in SDG&E territory and $92 a month in PG&E territory.

These fixed rates are very low, even for high income households and it seems investing in renewable energy is not even considered. What the hell?

 

[Torvy]

A vast majority of it does. Does it impact US? Sure to a small extent.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1312860111

Not really different from the pollution centers of America (generally city/industrial centers)oes it effect me in East Texas? Sure. But, not like living in the middle of LA.

50 Years of Progress

The Southland's War on Smog: Fifty Years of Progress Toward Clean Air (May 1997)

www.aqmd.gov

Ah, but the argument here is always about 'global' climate. People are largely in favor of local environmental improvements. Those are doing well, so do not evoke a crisis that can be exploited by fear mongering. Hence, the pollution in China and India (and everywhere else) does matter because it drives directly to the heart of the effort to move the US away from a capitalist society. It is less about climate and more about success.

Note that California is not going to use infrastructure to build more lanes on roads, despite the big need. Since they are pushing EV, why NOT have more lanes? Driving will no longer be polluting...so something else will have to be the demon.

 

[orezok]

I just read a news article where the power companies in California are requesting a change to the way customers are billed. They want it changed to a fixed rate based on income.

• Households earning less than $28,000 a year would pay a fixed charge of $15 a month on their electric bills in Edison and PG&E territories and $24 a month in SDG&E territory.
• Households with annual income from $28,000 – $69,000 would pay $20 a month in Edison territory, $34 a month in SDG&E territory and $30 a month in PG&E territory.
• Households earning from $69,000 – $180,000 would pay $51 a month in Edison and PG&E territories and $73 a month in SDG&E territory.
• Those with incomes above $180,000 would pay $85 a month in Edison territory, $128 a month in SDG&E territory and $92 a month in PG&E territory.

These fixed rates are very low, even for high income households and it seems investing in renewable energy is not even considered. What the hell?

I would have to read the full bill. My fixed charge runs $12 to $25 a month in SCE. It is only the charge for connection to the grid and does not include production or transmission. Again, the story seems to be incomplete.

 

[TN8Man]

I would have to read the full bill. My fixed charge runs $12 to $25 a month in SCE. It is only the charge for connection to the grid and does not include production or transmission. Again, the story seems to be incomplete.

Yes, it does lack detailed information.
I lived in SoCal until I retired and I never saw a power bill that low. When I moved to Tennessee the electric bill was much less and I use much more power now due to HVAC in Tennessee climate.

 

[SgtSluggo]

I would have to read the full bill. My fixed charge runs $12 to $25 a month in SCE. It is only the charge for connection to the grid and does not include production or transmission. Again, the story seems to be incomplete.

This is fixed charge + usage. The idea of the bill is that higher fixed charge with a lower per kWh cost is supposed to reduce variability in billing for utilities. I have seen that the expected decrease is from an average of 0.47pkwh to 0.27pkwh.

 

[bnold]

I just read a news article where the power companies in California are requesting a change to the way customers are billed. They want it changed to a fixed rate based on income.

• Households earning less than $28,000 a year would pay a fixed charge of $15 a month on their electric bills in Edison and PG&E territories and $24 a month in SDG&E territory.
• Households with annual income from $28,000 – $69,000 would pay $20 a month in Edison territory, $34 a month in SDG&E territory and $30 a month in PG&E territory.
• Households earning from $69,000 – $180,000 would pay $51 a month in Edison and PG&E territories and $73 a month in SDG&E territory.
• Those with incomes above $180,000 would pay $85 a month in Edison territory, $128 a month in SDG&E territory and $92 a month in PG&E territory.

These fixed rates are very low, even for high income households and it seems investing in renewable energy is not even considered. What the hell?

Just another Robin Hood program…

Surely these are the fixed rates, usage is additional (probably at a different rate as well. I hope this fails.

 

[TN8Man]

Just another Robin Hood program…

Surely these are the fixed rates, usage is additional (probably at a different rate as well. I hope this fails.

Apparently there are a lot of people in California that stopped paying the electric bill during covid and a law prevented the electric company from shutting off power. A lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck too and that's if they even have a job. Sounds like it might be a solution to prevent a bigger crisis.

 

[Hay Dude]

OK, Granted, but it only amounts to 2% of our coal production. Still smoke and mirrors.

It’s just not smoke and mirrors. China, the developing nation, buys lots of coal from other countries.
Smoke & mirrors my @$$

 

[Hay Dude]

Winds aren’t taking it to Australia.

OK, where does the wind take it to then? Pluto?