ELON MUSK'S NEW CAR

[KennyG]

Who's "we" and how are "those" reports any different than what is available to those that know where to look and in the forward looking statements in the industry's SEC filings??
You seem to be basing the same stale rhetoric on old or current technology...
I'm surprised you didn't bring up the storage issues...!

No, I'm just going from over 50 years in the energy industry, seeing things succeed that follow laws of nature and seeing things fail that violate those laws. The hydrogen "filtering" recently got some press from studies at Stanford and Australia like these:

A new way to generate hydrogen fuel from seawater | Stanford News.

New Prototype Device Generates Hydrogen From Untreated Seawater

These don't change the basic electrolysis process, they just find a way to reduce the electrode fouling that has previously required highly purified water for electrolysis.

The basic physics remain that the most energy you can get from hydrogen in a fuel cell or combustion engine (by combining it with oxygen) is less than the energy required to break the bond in the first place (2nd law of thermo). If we are talking electrolysis, why not just use the electricity directly?

There are some interesting ideas about high temperature hydrogen production (in nuclear reactors) since electrolysis at high temperature requires less electricity. However, this is using thermal energy to reduce the electrical energy required. Why not just use the heat to produce electricity?

I'm very open to new ideas, just not ones that violate the laws of physics or require perpetual motion machines.

 

[/pine]

No, I'm just going from over 50 years in the energy industry, seeing things succeed that follow laws of nature and seeing things fail that violate those laws. The hydrogen "filtering" recently got some press from studies at Stanford and Australia like these:

A new way to generate hydrogen fuel from seawater | Stanford News.

New Prototype Device Generates Hydrogen From Untreated Seawater

These don't change the basic electrolysis process, they just find a way to reduce the electrode fouling that has previously required highly purified water for electrolysis.

The basic physics remain that the most energy you can get from hydrogen in a fuel cell or combustion engine (by combining it with oxygen) is less than the energy required to break the bond in the first place (2nd law of thermo). If we are talking electrolysis, why not just use the electricity directly?

There are some interesting ideas about high temperature hydrogen production (in nuclear reactors) since electrolysis at high temperature requires less electricity. However, this is using thermal energy to reduce the electrical energy required. Why not just use the heat to produce electricity?

I'm very open to new ideas, just not ones that violate the laws of physics or require perpetual motion machines.

Basically what you're saying is...you are stuck in old/current technology...
Like I implied...if they did not think they could improve the efficiency they would not be spending so much money and effort...

 

[KennyG]

Efficiency improvements stop at 100%. Battery charging and motors are already close to that. The bottom line is that Hydrogen is a storage medium, not an energy source, so it needs to be compared to batteries. It may have a future if the government mandates abandoning fossil fuels and reliable electric generation (which is a real possibility) and new battery technology doesn't emerge that doesn't rely on scarce materials, but I wouldn't invest my money in it.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

VHS dominated over Beta because that’s what the market wanted, not because the government forced one on you.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Problem with hydrogen vehicles is you cant roll coal.

 

[jyoutz]

Problem with hydrogen vehicles is you cant roll coal.

That ceases to be fun after age 25 anyway.

 

[Gator6x4]

... and not finding it either.

In a way they remind me of the Edsel. It was all the rage when it came out but once the charm wore off, it became a turd.

Ford decided it did not need a vehicle to fit between the Ford/Mercury and Lincoln so it incorporated the Edsel features into the Ford/Mercury lines.

“What features did the Edsel have?

Features or Values -Ford introduced a lot of technical innovations in the 'Edsel' car like Teletouch transmission, floating speedometer, self-adjusting brakes, transmission lock, electronic hood release and so on. It was advertised as a feature-rich car.

 

[Gator6x4]

Problem with hydrogen vehicles is you cant roll coal.

Nope problem with hydrogen fuel is it is expensive.

“How much does a gallon of hydrogen fuel cost?


Hydrogen fuel is much more efficient than gasoline, but it's also four times more expensive, roughly equivalent to about $16 a gallon.”

What is the major downside of hydrogen power?

Another problem is.

“Disadvantage: The Use of Fossil Fuels in Hydrogen Production

“A common way to isolate hydrogen is to extract it from natural gas in a process called reforming. This process is costly and emits carbon dioxide, which is counterproductive to using an emission-free energy source.”

 

[/pine]

Nope problem with hydrogen fuel is it is expensive.

“How much does a gallon of hydrogen fuel cost?


Hydrogen fuel is much more efficient than gasoline, but it's also four times more expensive, roughly equivalent to about $16 a gallon.”

What is the major downside of hydrogen power?

Another problem is.

“Disadvantage: The Use of Fossil Fuels in Hydrogen Production

“A common way to isolate hydrogen is to extract it from natural gas in a process called reforming. This process is costly and emits carbon dioxide, which is counterproductive to using an emission-free energy source.”

The most efficient way to separate hydrogen from seawater is via electrolysis...

 

[KennyG]

The most efficient way to separate hydrogen from seawater is via electrolysis...

From an energy balance perspective, yes. From a cost viewpoint no. Electrolysis is very expensive because of the water processing cost, equipment maintenance and cost of electricity versus cost of fossil fuel.