We All Live In An Orange Submarine

[sunandsand]

I have a neighbor who has an MX4700.

He evidently believes that NDT is strictly for wimps. He BREAKS stuff, big time. This time, he has absolutely outdone himself.

Disclaimer - he's a good neighbor and a friend, and I'm not mad at him - just a little in awe this time. He thinks I'm too much of a perfectionist (and has told me so), I think he's a tad too casual with his machinery (I've kept my mouth shut), but this makes the world go around.

Now last week, he was mowing. He has a gang mower, I think it is about ten feet across, and it is a Bush Hog brand. He hit something very, very solid, and the shear bolt either refused to shear or had been replaced with a grade 14 depleted uranium bolt or something and it did NOT let go. Tractor stalled . . .

I saw the remains of the PTO shaft. Inside that cover is a solid steel bar with about an inch and a quarter or an inch and a half cross section. It was twisted like a pretzel, maybe two full twists in two feet - impressive.

His problem with this is that he can't get the rear PTO U-joint yoke off the splined shaft on the mower. He removed the bolt, but the yoke will NOT come off. He's used some serious stuff on it, big breaker bars, an auto body shop hydraulic spreader (junior grade jaws of life), lots of profanity, no dice, it isn't moving.

I suggested that there might be a snap ring but he said no, it is only the bolt, the yoke is just stuck on the spline. (Maybe he will go look for a snap ring, we will see.)

OK, so now we get to the good part.

Yesterday, he was using his root rake to clean up our easement. There were rocks and roots on it, he was "shaving" it to make it somewhat smoother (it still stinks). He had a rake full of roots, brush, rocks, etc., and he decided to dump it into a small pond adjacent to the easement.

What he told me was that this pond looked to be pretty shallow, so he didn't think twice. Guess what - the pond was an old borrow pit and is at the least six or seven feet deep, probably more. (There's another one on his property that he already knows about, but he didn't know about this one.)

Front of the tractor went underwater, intake ingested water, tractor stopped. Blub blub blub. He got off and back to dry land with the tractor abut two thirds submerged.

(I would have helped him retrieve the tractor but I wasn't around, the first I knew of it was when I saw his tractor at the side of the easement dripping water lilies and mud, and liberally festooned with other acquatic plants.)

He pulled it out using his gnarly 4WD super duty Chebby work truck. To get it to come out, he had to disconnect the root rake because it is stuck on something down there (Nessie?). He did put a buoy on it so he can find it when he goes back for it later.

The tractor did start, but it is not running on all cylinders, and is making noises that indicate a sick, sick, sick engine. He suspects a bent valve ("Its only a flesh wound!"), my experience with running engines that have ingested water tells me to look for bent con rods as well. I have my fingers crossed on this, he's taking it apart later this week.

So two questions:

1) Any idea why the rear U-joint yoke won't come off the spline on the mower?

2) Damages to look for on an inadvertent Kubota submarine? (We already know the submarine's screen door leaks "a little", what else should he look for?) Drain the green gold transmission fluids and change all the filters? I think this time he's seriously hurt this poor tractor . . .

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[Norm W]

The splines on the PTO are twisted. Unfortunately, some parts are still straight, so the combination keeps the two parts together.

 

[zzvyb6]

Just cut it off. Torch or grinder. Slit it, split it, spit on it, and be done. A new PTO shaft will have both ends.
I'm willing to bet that the gearbox on the cutter also has some as of yet undetected bendage.

 

[JWR]

Holy Moley ! Your friend has a mess on his hands. I will risk a few comments none of which will fix his problems.
1) He is snake bit and needs to stop abusing what was a perfectly good tractor. He may see himself as a tractor repair hero and I am not seeing any evidence so far.
2) The 10 ft wide or more gang mower ( I assume you are talking a bat-wing Bush Hog) is too much for that tractor. Unless he is sticking to "easily cut grass" and apparently not, he tends to need something stronger...
3) When he takes the entire rig to a tractor repair shop (dealer or otherwise which he obviously should do...) they can probably extract the PTO U-joint from the PTO shaft (heat, hydraulic force, etc.) and worst case just take the U-joint apart and replace the part of the U-joint that mates to the PTO. Not surprised if it is cheaper to just replace the whole U-joint. That he certainly can do himself. Norm ios right (above) and of course it is the twisted PTO shaft making the U-joint nearly impossible to get loose.
4) I am a little less pessimist than you about the Kubota engine. Ingesting water MIGHT not have done all that much damage. Let the shop diagnose that and see where it leads. He will probably make the whole thing worse.
5) I do NOT see this as a do-it-yourself situation.

 

[sunandsand]

Holy Moley ! Your friend has a mess on his hands. I will risk a few comments none of which will fix his problems.
1) He is snake bit and needs to stop abusing what was a perfectly good tractor. He may see himself as a tractor repair hero and I am not seeing any evidence so far.

Agree. He does fix a lot of stuff, but he needs to remember Clint Eastwood's caution about an man's gotta know his own limitations. I think he's learning his limitations the hard way. That's one of the great things about this group, I can read and research to decide if I am going to fix something myself or if I am going to yell for help.

2) The 10 ft wide or more gang mower ( I assume you are talking a bat-wing Bush Hog) is too much for that tractor. Unless he is sticking to "easily cut grass" and apparently not, he tends to need something stronger...

Most of what he does is easily cut grass. He does however, sometimes stray into areas that are not so easy - Cogon grass (which is like trying to mow steel wool) and places that have hidden obstacles.

3) When he takes the entire rig to a tractor repair shop (dealer or otherwise which he obviously should do...) they can probably extract the PTO U-joint from the PTO shaft (heat, hydraulic force, etc.) and worst case just take the U-joint apart and replace the part of the U-joint that mates to the PTO. Not surprised if it is cheaper to just replace the whole U-joint. That he certainly can do himself. Norm ios right (above) and of course it is the twisted PTO shaft making the U-joint nearly impossible to get loose.

I will pass that along. He's a bit frustrated right now. (Wonder why?)

4) I am a little less pessimist than you about the Kubota engine. Ingesting water MIGHT not have done all that much damage. Let the shop diagnose that and see where it leads. He will probably make the whole thing worse.

Agree, agree. He's going to pull the head off himself, he is competent to do that and probably to put it back, but I question if he'll be able to diagnose things properly just by looking (unless something is really busted).

5) I do NOT see this as a do-it-yourself situation.

Me either. If this were mine, I'd do some preliminary diagnosis to decide if it was going to a shop or not. If this was a gas engine, I'd dive right in, but even though the basics of gas and diesel engines are pretty much the same, I know zilch about diesel injection and fuel systems, and I know that I know zilch about it.

Thanks for your input!

Best,

Mike/Florida

 

[BleedingOrange]

Sounds like this guy is a continuous disaster. Does he make easy money, to be able to constantly wreck stuff without any regard for his own safety ?
I,m surprised he didn,t fly off of the tractor when he hit something that solid enough to wreck his mower and driveshaft like that.
Make sure to never lend him any of your stuff, even a screwdriver. To me, this guy looks like another accident waiting to happen. You only get so many chances.

 

[sunandsand]

Yes, being his neighbor has been "interesting" from time to time. Coupla years ago he was burning brush, the wind picked up and it got away from him. He tried to put it out with his tractor and ran over a railroad spike lying in the dirt, instant flat rear tire, but he was able to back the tractor to safety. (Oh ****!)

Fire grew very rapidly, spread in MY direction, fire departments from all around the area showed up, I have a screen grab from a news helicopter's footage of flames higher than my hangar and only a few feet away. (Oh ****! Oh ****!)

I was home with wife's frail, aged mother, wife was in court (she's a lawyer), her friends were watching local TV and started calling her "Your house is on fire!" (It wasn't) and she rushed homeward but had the FD stop her about a mile from the house saying sorry ma'm you can't go in and oh boy was she ever ticked!

Fire guys were outside saying I didn't look terribly upset about all this. I said steel and concrete don't burn very well, yes, I'm concerned but no, not upset (which wouldn't have helped anyway). They put it out (MIL slept through the whole thing) and the whole area stank of smoke for a week. No damage to anything of mine, a neighbor 1/4 mile further had a wooden fence burn down. Guy apologized (and fixed the neighbor's fence).

A few years later, he had a friend's pickup truck camper parked outside his hangar (very adjacent to his home) and it got hit by lightning. This one was NOT his fault.

Problem was the propane tanks for the camper promptly blew up and the camper burned right to the ground - taking neighbor's pickup truck with it along with some motorcycles and ATVs parked inside a shipping container next to the ill-fated pickup camper.

Turns out HIS 82 y.o. mother was home at the time, and she valiantly grabbed a garden hose and tried to put it out. After a very short time, she realized that the garden hose was rather outclassed (Ya think?) and yelled for help. FD arrived quickly (only two miles away) and got it under control before it spread much further. His mom got her eyebrows singed a bit.

He was out of town (not far) and I called him, told him his mom was fine, but the FD was here and he really ought to saddle up and come on home, like right now. (Oh ****! Oh ****!) He did, and yes, he was freaked out.

As to lending him things, I've lent him a metal detector to look for aircraft tiedowns which screw into the ground and always manage to get forgotten (he returns it in working order each time), and this last time out, I lent him a set of fluting pliers because he is making an aluminum cowling for an ultralight airplane he just bought . . .

Stay tuned next week for the next thrilling episode of chaos and destruction, and no, I am NOT going to ride with him in that ultralight, which is basically a lawn chair with delusions of grandeur, and generally a very elaborate way to commit suicide.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[workinonit]

You say hanger? So this guy flies planes? Now that's scary. If he were flying from my FBO I would move.

 

[plastikosmd]

You have a gift for storytelling/writing

No advise but enjoyed the read!

 

[dodge man]

I can honestly say I’ve learned a lot from people that do bad work. You have a constant source of education with your neighbor.

 

[ruffdog]

People like that keep the economy going.

 

[CobyRupert]

Sounds like the type of guy who would pull the tractor out of the water and turn the key to see if it would start.

 

[sunandsand]

Sounds like the type of guy who would pull the tractor out of the water and turn the key to see if it would start.

And that is *exactly* what he did. How on earth did you ever know that? ;-)

It did start (very, very reluctantly) and he drove it about 1,500 feet or so to his work area. He says it ran very badly (duh. I'm surpirsed it ran at all), and he said that he thought perhaps a valve or two was bent. He will likely be taking it apart over this Memorial Day weekend and I will stop by as a good neighbor and play sidewalk superintendent while he does. I will report back . . .

("There's those who learn from the mistakes of others, and then there's those who have to p*** on the electric fence themselves." Will Rogers.)


Speaking of Memorial Day, we have a small, overgrown cemetery in town. It was abandoned for years and it is now slowly being cleaned up. There are about 20 veterans interred there, some from WW1, some from WW2. I was invited to come and pay my respects yesterday, on a very rainy morning. I thought about it a little and decided that these guys served their country and some of them died doing it, so the least I could do was show up and be slightly inconvenienced for a half an hour or so.

I'm glad I went, there are people in town who are the relatives and descendants of those veterans. I never served (4F), and I express my admiration and gratitude to and for those who did.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[ruffdog]

....and he said that he thought perhaps a valve or two was bent. He will likely be taking it apart over this Memorial Day weekend and I will stop by as a good neighbor and play sidewalk superintendent while he does. I will report back . . .

More like a connecting rod or two got bent from hydro-lock. Once the head is off, use a height gage and dial indicator atop the deck to compare TDC piston height.

 

[sunandsand]

"More like a connecting rod or two got bent from hydro-lock. Once the head is off, use a height gauge and dial indicator atop the deck to compare TDC piston height."

Went past this afternoon, he's working on something else - I think he knows he has big problem with his tractor and he's putting off opening it. He says it does run, but smokes a lot and has no power. I doubt running it will improve matters, and in fact will probably make things worse, but I kept my mouth shut because he's a "bit" sensitive about it right now.


Water ingestion into a running engine is almost invariably bad news. On the MB newsgroup there is a sad tale of a guy who played this game with an AMG 6.3 CLK. That's a 6.3 liter hand built high performance (big buck) V8, and each engine is signed by the guy who built it. You can buy a replacement engine from MB, it is $55,000 plus freight and installation. (Bargain day. I'll take two, please.)

Engine was toast - several bent rods, cracked the block, blew both head gaskets (early 6.3s have a weakness there, it's been fixed on newer ones). Of course everything is assembled with torque to yield bolts and there are a LOT of them. Basically the only thing still good was the dipstick. Someone repaired one of these, the parts bill alone came to $19,000 and he did all the work himself - and it was an astonishing amount of work. He had the MB mommyvan, the engine comes out the front, on the CLK, it comes out upward from the engine bay.

Anyway, his insurance company said no way, jack, he insisted on keeping the car, they went round and round and eventually they agreed to buy him a used engine.

It went downhill from there . . .

Parts yard in Oregon (he's in Texas) insisted they had exactly what he needed, insurance company paid and told him OK, we paid, now go away. Except the engine wasn't an AMG 6.3, it was a standard 5.5 out of a sedan, mild cam, and on a good day, maybe 2/3 of the HP the AMG engine was good for.

Bolting on the AMG parts doesn't do anything extra to the 5.5, all the hot-rod goodies are inside the 6.3, and they won't fit the 5.5.

This has been going on over two years to date, and is nowhere near being resolved. We should count our blessings.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[sunandsand]

Tuesday afternoon update . . .

Friend of his stopped by, offered some advice. The friend is a diesel mechanic and does generally know his way around machinery. He's done a little work for me on an auto A/C before I learned to do it myself.

His advice was don't take it apart yet. Change the fuel, oil, all the filters (fuel and oil) and see if that helps. Owner was happy because it was what he wanted to hear (a/k/a hoping for a break) and says it seems to be running better now (he hasn't changed anything yet), but that might just be wishful thinking. We'll know when he puts the tractor back to work instead of just driving it around.

I told him I'd keep my fingers crossed for him because I'm a buddy, even though it makes typing somewhat awkward.

On the PTO shaft problem, he's trying to find an aftermarket PTO shaft that fits correctly. He says Bush Hog is almost as proud of their red paint as JD is of their green paint. I can't fault him on this because if he winds up having to buy the high priced spread, so be it, he will.

(Maybe I should go into the paint business?)

Stay tuned - I do hope the flush and fluid change works - we'll see.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[goeduck]

Following.... I gotta hear how this ends up...

 

[FriendwithTractor]

I thought my friend's machinist brother was hard on equipment (Bent mower decks, shredded belts, Once he managed to flip a zero turn)...He's got nothing on this guy.
Following for curiosity's sake.

 

[YanmarFever]

Mike, I hope your friend isn't reading this neighborly report on tractorbynet after all he is a tractor guy (kinda)

What part of Florida do these endeavors take place at?

 

[sunandsand]

Interim update . . .

The root rake has been retrieved from Davy Jones' locker. Took some imaginative profanity, some chains, his tractor and another guy who brought along a big green JD. He didn't ask me to help (although I would have been glad to) because he calls my 2601 a "toy tractor" (he's mostly ribbing me, I'm a big boy, so that's OK) and compared to the JD, it is.

I know the guy who dug that "shallow looking pond" and there is no telling what lurks in the depths of it. He threw all kinds of crap (technical term) into the water and the bushes. I wouldn't at all be surprised if Nessie is down there.

Fortunately, the root rake has no moving parts to rust, and is a VERY solid chunk of steel (fabricated locally) so it isn't hurt any. The surface rust just adds to the "patina".

His tractor, however, isn't OK. He's been driving it around, leaving a smoke trail like a WW2 destroyer. It is now having trouble starting, so he took the starter apart, cleaned it (it was submerged), liberally dosed it with WD-40 (a/k/a chicken soup for machinery), and it is barely working. That, I think, is the least of his problems.

He says he's still able to get "light work" out of it, but I am concerned that if there is any metal debris in it (symptoms seem to indicate a cracked piston), the shrapnel is going to damage other parts of the engine and his ultimate repair bill is going to be a lot higher than it needs to be.

Essentially, he's in denial. (I happen to know that de nial is a river in Africa, in fact there are two of them, the Blue Nile and the White Nile. I have seen them, they are both very brown.)

I've offered to help when he (ultimately) decides to take it apart, offered moral support, tools he might need (he has plenty of his own, but the offer shows good faith) and so on, but for now, he's using it even though it is limping along.

While the tractor is definitely broke, he isn't, so the ultimate resolution might just be for him to use it as a trade-in on a new one. He has over 2,000 hard hours on this one, so that might be the best way forward. Of course, it is his decision, not mine.

No progress on the pretzeled PTO shaft yet.

Stay tuned . . .

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida