Bucket work with clutch /shuttle Vs hydro.

[LouNY]

I've added a camera so I can see the pallet fork tips without getting out or relying on guidance from others.
I thing that I do enjoy with the loader forks is the reach, loading a pickup with the tail gate open I can still get a pallet far enough forward or placed in the center of a trailer. Also I can load round bales in the center of two rows for a second tier. Unless your forklift has the extendable forks which most don't, also unless it's an off road fork most of them get stuck just looking at a dirt roadway or parking pad.
I have no issue using my power shuttle transmissions with their wet clutch paks and easing the clutches with forks or anything else on the loader or tractor.
Dry disk clutchs do take a bit more attention but most can go many thousands of hours even in loader work.
When doing loader work, manure or dirt with the power shuttles I do use the foot throttle quite a bit, as I drive into the pile I'm backing of the throttle to reduce the rpm as I start to curl back and lift, then I move the direction lever to reverse and get back onto the foot throttle, when backing out and turned and ready to go forward it is very similar, off the foot throttle, reversing lever to neutral, braking to a stop, lever to forward and back on the throttle.
Doing it faster then writing it out.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Nothing but gear shuttle on this ponderosa. If it's a shuttle. Nothing but gear if it's a transmission. I fixed a hydraulic one once. It was way cheaper to go buy another tractor with a gear shuttle, swap the hydraulic out for the gear shuttle. Both tractors ran fine. Way less than half the price of just the parts. Plus, the donor machine had four good tires.

 

[Eebbee]

Any clutch guys doing bucket work wish they had a hydro instead?

 

[Eebbee]

Any clutch guys doing bucket work wish they had a hydro instead?

For having both a hydrostatic and clutch shuttle, if I were to do exclusively loader work I would select a Power Shuttle model.
While hydro is super nice for things like mowing or blowing snow I find it lacks the power of gears when you are trying to load that bucket or cut the ground with it.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

For having both a hydrostatic and clutch shuttle, if I were to do exclusively loader work I would select a Power Shuttle model.
While hydro is super nice for things like mowing or blowing snow I find it lacks the power of gears when you are trying to load that bucket or cut the ground with it.

To me, lacking power when scooping up stuff with the bucket isn't an issue with HST.

Of course, I don't just drive into a mound of dirt with the bucket still level. Using the lever I can get a full scoop without running out of power or traction.

 

[LittleBill21]

I will literally place money against anyone on a HST vs a shift anything. for loader work. You may keep up for 15 minutes but you will be working your butt off shifting if doing a lot of movements in a small period.

I just worked with a shuttle shift guy yesterday for 3 hours removing rock from a yard after a flood. his tractor was over double the size of mine, and I did over twice what he did, and he could shift absolutely perfect. your simply not going to keep up at that pace when all i do is move one foot, and he has to move multiple things, especially over long periods of time.

 

[DK35vince]

I just worked with a shuttle shift guy yesterday for 3 hours removing rock from a yard after a flood. his tractor was over double the size of mine, and I did over twice what he did, and he could shift absolutely perfect. your simply not going to keep up at that pace when all i do is move one foot, and he has to move multiple things, especially over long periods of time.

Hydrostat is a bit faster at loader work.
I'll give you that, but if someone knows how to use a loader and shuttle. No way in hell is a hydro tractor half the size of a shuttle tractor but twice as fast. No way.

 

[LittleBill21]

Hydrostat is a bit faster at loader work.
I'll give you that, but if someone knows how to use a loader and shuttle. No way in hell is a hydro tractor half the size of a shuttle tractor twice as fast. No way.

I will literally put money on the table against people. considering we were doing rock removal and back dragging literally non stop for 3 hours, my right hand NEVER left the loader valve, both in forward and reverse, shuttle constantly had his hand off either having to shift to a different gear or change to reverse, and with the clutch there is a limit to how much a person can do at one point. I literally ran circles around him, and he wasn't having a single issue. Buy a HST, you will see, I knew it before I even bought my tractor, think about how fast skid steer guys work.

I ended up just filling his tractor bucket with mine halfway through, as he was taking to long to get the rock organised.

 

[paulsharvey]

I will literally place money against anyone on a HST vs a shift anything. for loader work. You may keep up for 15 minutes but you will be working your butt off shifting if doing a lot of movements in a small period.

I just worked with a shuttle shift guy yesterday for 3 hours removing rock from a yard after a flood. his tractor was over double the size of mine, and I did over twice what he did, and he could shift absolutely perfect. your simply not going to keep up at that pace when all i do is move one foot, and he has to move multiple things, especially over long periods of time.

A power shuttle, the only thing you move is the shuttle lever forward to backwards, with the flick of a finger on the left side of steering wheel. The clutch (if equipped) is only for PTO or range, and you use the foot throttle exactly like you would on a vehicle. If you have never used one, they really are a joy to use. I would hazard to guess, it's faster then a HST, just because you have easier and more intuitive throttle. As your digging into the pile, while crowding and lifting, your pushing throttle, giving you more power while both pushing needs it, as well as they hydralics; as soon as it's full, flick that shuttle, back out, and flick over to forwards to take the material where you want it.

Stupid question; is there something that inheriteantly with a PS that prevents using them in small machines? Cost? Weight? Physical size? I want to say the MF 2860 is the smallest machine offered with one? Is a hydrostatic drive significantly cheaper then a PS? Or is it all an unfamiliarity that prevents it? They have been around since the 60s atleast, in almost all construction equipment.

Edit: the MF 1533 was available in a 12x12 powershuttle.

 

[DK35vince]

I will literally put money on the table against people. considering we were doing rock removal and back dragging literally non stop for 3 hours, my right hand NEVER left the loader valve, both in forward and reverse, shuttle constantly had his hand off either having to shift to a different gear or change to reverse, and with the clutch there is a limit to how a person can do at one point. I literally ran circles around him, and he wasn't having a single issue. Buy a HST, you will see, I knew it before I even bought my tractor, think about how fast skid steer guys work.

What's a skid steer have to do with a tractor.
I run a skid steer nearly every day.
I can run circles around a hydro tractor for loader work

 

[LittleBill21]

What's a skid steer have to do with a tractor.
I run a skid steer nearly every day.
I can run circles around a hydro tractor for loader work

not sure how you don't see the connection, its a high speed HST, of course it will blow the doors off a tractor.


I will never understand why anyone doing anything but cutting long length fields would ever buy anything but a HST in 2023, to each their own I guess, and I can drive stick with the best of them, god knows that would suck after an hour in a tractor

 

[Hysyde]

How do you figure?

I use pallet forks quite often, mostly with the little L3800, but also with the M6040. The latter has a cab, but I don't understand what difference that makes.

If the load is much over 2,000 lbs. I use the actual forklift, but all it can do is lift more weight, straight up and down. With a tractor I can reach much farther, and it's much easier to move the forks laterally thanks to the increased swing.

Of course, it doesn't help that the little tractor has HST, the 6040 shuttle shift, and the forklift has a basic manual transmission, making it that much harder to make delicate maneuvers with.

And thanks to enough practice, I can lift and lower loads with the tractors while keeping the load just as level as with the forklift.

Pallet forks for the win in my case, and I prefer the cab on the tractor over the one on the forklift.

I have a lot of machinery at my disposal with forks (tractors, backhoe, skidsteer, FEL, forklift). The dedicated forklift is usually the least convenient to grab, but I often curse myself when I don't make the effort. Visibility is the biggest advantage, followed by maneuverability (rear steer and a slick transmission) and finesse/precision. The forklift has side-shift, power adjusting fork width and a laser which helps too. The forklift is a bit easier to get in and out (or much more in the case of the skidsteer which you can't even get out of if the loader is up at all) but it has a less comfortable cab and inferior HVAC in comparison to the other machines.

With a tractor, making sure I have ballast is sometimes a consideration as well.

 

[4570Man]

I have a lot of machinery at my disposal with forks (tractors, backhoe, skidsteer, FEL, forklift). The dedicated forklift is usually the least convenient to grab, but I often curse myself when I don't make the effort. Visibility is the biggest advantage, followed by maneuverability (rear steer and a slick transmission) and finesse/precision. The forklift has side-shift, power adjusting fork width and a laser which helps too. The forklift is a bit easier to get in and out (or much more in the case of the skidsteer which you can't even get out of if the loader is up at all) but it has a less comfortable cab and inferior HVAC in comparison to the other machines.

With a tractor, making sure I have ballast is sometimes a consideration as well.

Of course a forklift is the best tool for forklifting. It literally has one job. Pallet forks on a tractor are much cheaper than buying a dedicated forklift. And an off-road forklift looses a lot of the agility a warehouse lift has.

 

[DK35vince]

My dad has a 40 hp Kubota HST.
I have a 35 hp shuttle.
If you dumped a truck load of gravel on the ground and needed it spread and put to grade I could do it twice as fast as my dad and his hst.
Why. Experience.
I do loader and grade work for my job nearly every day. My dad doesn't.
Even though he has hst, I could easily be done and eating a sandwich while he would still be grading

 

[LD1]

I went from clutch to HST. And in a larger frame (MX5100).

No comparison in precision and speed of loader work.

They actually make machines SPECIFICALLY for loader work. They are called skid loaders. And yup....they are HST as well

 

[LouNY]

I went from clutch to HST. And in a larger frame (MX5100).

No comparison in precision and speed of loader work.

They actually make machines SPECIFICALLY for loader work. They are called skid loaders. And yup....they are HST as well

Skid "steers" and so aptly named as they tear up every thing skidding around trying to get turned.

One of the worst machines built when longevity and repairability is considered.
In my opinion and that is the one that counts!!!!!!

Real loaders are very seldom Hydrostatic they are often shuttle shifted and torque converter equipped pieces of equipment,
Many are articulated or rear steer so they turn sharply without tearing up the ground.

They don't get belly hung in just a few inchs of mud or swamp.

 

[4570Man]

Skid "steers" and so aptly named as they tear up every thing skidding around trying to get turned.

One of the worst machines built when longevity and repairability is considered.
In my opinion and that is the one that counts!!!!!!

Real loaders are very seldom Hydrostatic they are often shuttle shifted and torque converter equipped pieces of equipment,
Many are articulated or rear steer so they turn sharply without tearing up the ground.
View attachment 821165
They don't get belly hung in just a few inchs of mud or swamp.

Comparing a full size wheel loader to a skid steer is about the equivalent of comparing a 1/2 ton pickup to a semi. The wheel loader price tag is several times what a skid steer cost, you can’t load the wheel loader behind a pickup and move it fairly easily, you can’t grade a yard with the wheel loader, you can’t drive the loader in the woods to haul out firewood, the attachments for a loader are pretty limited where the skid steer has hundreds. Overall they’re a completely different tool for different uses. One of my friends had a compact wheel loader. It was light enough to transport with a pickup and used skid steer implements which put them in more comparable classes but it still couldn’t do dirt work anything close to as good as the skid steer can. The leading reason why he sold it is the stability was terrible on uneven ground. A skid steer is hard to work on I’ll give you that but the durability is pretty good considering the poor treatment they typically receive. A tractor would be broke in half the first week if it received the same treatment.

 

[paulsharvey]

Comparing a full size wheel loader to a skid steer is about the equivalent of comparing a 1/2 ton pickup to a semi. The wheel loader price tag is several times what a skid steer cost, you can’t load the wheel loader behind a pickup and move it fairly easily, you can’t grade a yard with the wheel loader, you can’t drive the loader in the woods to haul out firewood, the attachments for a loader are pretty limited where the skid steer has hundreds. Overall they’re a completely different tool for different uses. One of my friends had a compact wheel loader. It was light enough to transport with a pickup and used skid steer implements which put them in more comparable classes but it still couldn’t do dirt work anything close to as good as the skid steer can. The leading reason why he sold it is the stability was terrible on uneven ground. A skid steer is hard to work on I’ll give you that but the durability is pretty good considering the poor treatment they typically receive. A tractor would be broke in half the first week if it received the same treatment.

Well, it's more like comparing a Ford Ranger to an F250. A JD544 is roughly 150 hp and around $225k; while a JD 333 is 100hp, and around $115k.

Edit: They both there use, and place. I would want a CTL loading trucks, or where you might need to move material more then a few 100 yards; at the same time, I would want the 544 doing a house pad or landscaping.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I have a lot of machinery at my disposal with forks (tractors, backhoe, skidsteer, FEL, forklift). The dedicated forklift is usually the least convenient to grab, but I often curse myself when I don't make the effort. Visibility is the biggest advantage, followed by maneuverability (rear steer and a slick transmission) and finesse/precision. The forklift has side-shift, power adjusting fork width and a laser which helps too. The forklift is a bit easier to get in and out (or much more in the case of the skidsteer which you can't even get out of if the loader is up at all) but it has a less comfortable cab and inferior HVAC in comparison to the other machines.

Of course a forklift is the best tool for forklifting. It literally has one job. Pallet forks on a tractor are much cheaper than buying a dedicated forklift. And an off-road forklift looses a lot of the agility a warehouse lift has.

I should probably point out that my forklift isn't of the typical kind.

It doesn't have A/C, which doesn't matter to me as much as that the windshield is heated, visibility isn't great, but it does quite well on uneven terrain. As does most Unimogs.

Also, no side-shift, no power adjusting fork width, or laser. But it does have a side tilt function which the tractors with pallet forks are obviously lacking. And it's easier to transport some loads since they are supported by the forklift in the back.

Still haven't got around to check how high it lifts compared to the M6040, although this photo should give an idea.

 

[4570Man]

Well, it's more like comparing a Ford Ranger to an F250. A JD544 is roughly 150 hp and around $225k; while a JD 333 is 100hp, and around $115k.

Edit: They both there use, and place. I would want a CTL loading trucks, or where you might need to move material more then a few 100 yards; at the same time, I would want the 544 doing a house pad or landscaping.

A 544 is a pretty small loader. They come way bigger. I’d rather have even a small dozer over a loader for building a pad. Loading trucks is where a loader shines. The 544 bucket is 3 times bigger at least.