Is DEF that bad?

[3Ts]

Freezing point of DEF

In storage or when the engine is not in use, DEF will freeze at 12°F (-11°C). At this concentration level, the urea and the water freeze and thaw at the same rate – ensuring that you always have the correct amount of each.

 

[5030]

Nothing I own uses it so I really have no dog in the game anyway. I do buy DEF but I fertilize my hayfields with it via spraying it on. Great liquid fertilizer and much less expensive than 48% granulated urea is today. I always see where it's on sale then I buy numerous cases of it. It does smell like cat pee....

 

[ning]

It traps them, then lights them up all at once later.

Again, pooping in a bag and saying you don't poop then dumping that bag later....

On the remote assumption you're merely misinformed here ("never attribute..."):

The soot is particulate (ie solid) and it will get deep in the lungs and cause cancer.
The regen feature vaporizes the soot, primarily into CO2, which does not cause cancer.

The DEF is separate from the regeneration and serves to reduce NOx to N2 & O2.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

On the remote assumption you're merely misinformed here ("never attribute..."):

The soot is particulate (ie solid) and it will get deep in the lungs and cause cancer.
The regen feature vaporizes the soot, primarily into CO2, which does not cause cancer.

The DEF is separate from the regeneration and serves to reduce NOx to N2 & O2.

Well, I'm not a chemist. Just a simple medical professional. But I don't think you're entirely right. There's some phase changes, but it's not all roses shooting out of that burn cycle.... Try standing in front of it and taking a breath.

As for the carcinogenic nature of soot, chemicals can lead to cancer just as fast as particulate. The difference with particulate is unless you're breathing real deep over a long time, your body has hlmultiple ways of removing that soot whereas the chemicals absorb and cause DNA changes faster.

 

[Hay Dude]

I’m all for clean air & water.
There’s got to be a more reliable way than a DPF or DEF to make this work.
However, it may never happen with the forced EV “revolution“.
If it happens, it may take all this off our hands and put all the regulations on the power generation companies.

 

[mikester]

My F350 Powerstroke 6.7 has both DEF and a DPF.
I have monitored my fuel mileage when the DPF is running, and it absolutely TANKS my fuel economy.

Gee, I wonder why we don't get 24mpg anymore after Govt stuck their fingers into everything?

I wonder...

my 1994 6.5L Turbo Diesel had 200HP
my 2005 6.6L Turbo Diesel had 310HP
the new 2024 6.6L Turbo Diesel has 445HP

I'm thinking fuel economy sucks these days because buyers want bigger heavier trucks with more HP - not fuel economy.

 

[Kiotikrazy]

FYI The OP was asking about new DEF machines not your DEF free Mahindra

Pay attention to every time you see a new transport truck with DEF sitting at the side of the road with the safety markers out. A lot of trucks are getting stuck into limp mode due to an error code in the computer that can only be resolved by a $500 service call from the dealer for a guy to show up, plug in a laptop and clear the code.

Some DEF machines force you into a parked regen. Think about that when you are paying a guy $30/hr to operate a machine for you and it's parked in the middle of a field somewhere waiting for the parked regen to complete.

Like you I'm hanging onto my 2015 M59TLB without the DEF/DPF fun.

Seems like we are getting to the point it's better to rent equipment and let the rental company deal with the BS issues of keeping the equipment running. This way I just make a call and have a new machine ready for me by the next morning when the other one goes down and I only pay for the hours I use.

I recently rented a Cat 317 excavator. The machine only had 400 hrs on it when they dropped it off. Within a few hours, the thing started throwing emission codes. The service tech said the DEF pump was not putting out enough pressure and needed to be replaced. Cat would only authorize changing the filter first, and then the pump if it continued. He changed the filter and said, “The pump is bad but I can’t change it because of warranty authorization. Call me when it does it again, and I will come back and put the pump on.” Had to call him the next morning! You can’t make money with rental equipment either if it’s going to be like this!

 

[jwmorris]

Nothing wrong with the system or the DEF in most cases. Just the bad sensors that would corrode and throw false readings.

Thats kind of the nature of the beast. If you add stuff, it can fail.

Don’t get me wrong I’d rather take a trip in my 2023 F350 than my 1923 Model T but there is a LOT more to go wrong on the F350. I would be astonished (and very dead) if it’s still running 100 years from now, the T wouldn’t be a shocker but it’s already 100 and is a child’s toy, in terms of complexity, compared to the engines and drive trains of today.

 

[rockinbbar]

I wonder...

my 1994 6.5L Turbo Diesel had 200HP
my 2005 6.6L Turbo Diesel had 310HP
the new 2024 6.6L Turbo Diesel has 445HP

I'm thinking fuel economy sucks these days because buyers want bigger heavier trucks with more HP - not fuel economy.

Funny how newer diesels that have chips, or have been deleted have more horsepower and much better fuel mileage... Big brother doesn't want you doing that with something you own though.

As for myself, mine isn't deleted, and because it was built at the factory as a cab-chassis, it has less horsepower and torque than the retail type pickups sitting on the dealer car lots. It pulls what I want to pull just fine, but I wouldn't gripe about better fuel mileage.

 

[Hay Dude]

I wonder...

my 1994 6.5L Turbo Diesel had 200HP
my 2005 6.6L Turbo Diesel had 310HP
the new 2024 6.6L Turbo Diesel has 445HP

I'm thinking fuel economy sucks these days because buyers want bigger heavier trucks with more HP - not fuel economy.

You are correct.


I just ran across this truck on FB Marketplace.
Look at this tandem axle dump truck. Pretty big, huh? Probably carries 15+ tons, right?

Here’s what powered this truck back in the early 70’s.

A 186 Horsepower gas engine.

Now I don’t mind extra power in a truck, but this tandem axle dump truck, still running today and available for sale, managed to get the job done with 186 gasoline-powered horsepower.

Who on earth needs 400+ horsepower and 1,000+ ft lbs of torque In a pickup truck?

When the power ratings began to exceed 300HP/800TQ, it became really obvious this is all bragging rights.

I can tow 18 tons with my 360HP/850TQ Ram. Nobody needs 400+HP.
Nobody