Non CDL F250 towing 12K trailer across state lines ?

[westcliffe01]

My truck is rated to tow up to 12.5k and trailer is 12k. (6.4 diesel 4wd supercab)

Looks like Gooseneck/5thwheel is up to 15400lb (single rear wheel, 6.4 super cab 4wd)

 

[Hay Dude]

My truck is rated to tow up to 12.5k and trailer is 12k. (6.4 diesel 4wd supercab)
View attachment 841987

So that chart says “conventional” towing.
Is there another chart called “5th wheel” towing?

 

[Hersheyfarm]

So that chart says “conventional” towing.
Is there another chart called “5th wheel” towing?

Yes.
My truck is a 2022 f350, conventional towing is 20k, 5th wheel is 21700. Basically a wash cause goosenecks are usually 1000lb heavier.
I’ve made it a hobby to skirt the cdl for the last 25 years. Fdot. Current truck is 11400 and trailer is 14k, but it’s aluminum and has a payload capacity of 12050.
https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten..._Ford_Super_Duty_Pickup_Towing_Info_Oct20.pdf

 

[westcliffe01]

Back when I bought my backhoe I did a lot of research to determine what options I had to legally tow my 8000lb backhoe. I really didnt want a 3/4 ton truck because they are expensive to buy, expensive to run and expensive to maintain. But I couldnt come up with any sort of alternative. Possibly a few years later some of the half ton F150s may have got up to similar tow numbers to my 2008 3/4 ton but there was definitely nothing used in the half ton category nor in most of the 3/4 ton gas options at that time. And there were plenty of problems with the Ford gas trucks at that time with leaking cam phasers lowering oil pressure and ruining the engines and no recall.

I would have liked to get a Cummins but they were in way too much demand, especially the pre-DPF ones. I would have paid nearly double for one compared to the F250 that I bought. I didnt think the engine would fail at 117k miles nor did I count on the Navistar parts being as expensive as they are and then there is the whole need to pull the cab and put it back on...... So at the end it made more sense for me to sell the 6.4 as a core because rebuildable ones are in demand. So that in large part funded the Cummins engine and rebuild. I started a thread on here about the project but was advised to shut up about it lest I get a visit from the EPA.

The body on my truck is pretty shot from rust now, so my long term plan is to get a 40s to 50s truck and transfer the running gear to it after I have myself set up in CO. Im building a 2500sq ft shop with 12' ceilings and a tiny living space specifically so I have a proper place to work in the future. Radiant heat in the slab so I dont have to shiver outside on wet/snowy asphalt in my old age like I have to now...

 

[ultrarunner]

Sorry, but they already have these ideas.
If you get stopped, they can nail you for almost anything, such as EXCEEDING THE MANUFACTURERS WEIGHT CAPACITY. Since Ford has a published 11,200 GVWR and a GCVWR of 20k on my truck, then the DOT can and will write you a citation for exceeding it. They can write you a ticket for exceeding each GVWR that each manufacturer has set for either the truck or the trailer, or the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating that is published by the towing vehicle manufacturer. They can also cite you for exceeding axle ratings, or tire ratings, or how about ball ratings or the hitch rating? Anything that is exceeded can be cited.
So, as an example...
Can I mount a gooseneck hitch in my Chevy 1500 pickup with a 7500 pound towing package and pull 14,000 gross trailer if the trailer is rated to haul 14000? If I balance the load on the trailer, and keep the hitch weight below the half ton trucks GVW, is it legal? (not smart, but is it legal?) Nope and for good reason!

This is a perfect example of why I tend to stay out of the CDL comments or toss in 2 cents and leave, because there are too many variables and too many assumptions by people who either go by their experience, their interpretation of a whole lot of laws that darn few understand, including the people who are attempting to enforce them.

I'm fortunate in that most of my vehicles and boats predate ratings or passenger counts...

Hauled some heavy loads with 1930 AA stake truck... a safe, several full rolls of carpets when a 3/4 extended could barely haul just one roll.

You may be onto something using an older tagged tow vehicle.

Several of my trailers have no weight rating as they date from the 1950's and the only time stopped the officer said they go by tire rating in the absence of plated load tag.

 

[WM75Guy]

It has been a while since I was in the police academy, but I try to keep up on DL requirements to keep myself out of trouble. Each state will have its own laws, but most have adopted the federal FMSCA requirements for CDLs or they don't get federal highway dollars. CDLs come in Class A, B, or C for those drivers operating a commercial vehicle. There are also a Class A, B, and C non-CDL license. In Texas you can use a Class A or B non-CDL if you are driving certain exempt types of vehicles classified as commercial.

The FMCSA regs only cover CDLs, state law will govern non-CDL licenses. Where people get into trouble in Texas is the definition of what a Class C license allows you to operate - a single vehicle less than 26,001# GVWR pulling a trailer not to exceed 10,000# GVWR or 20,000# GVWR if it is a farm trailer. The below 26,000# GCVR does not come into play. Pull more than a 10,000# GVWR non-farm trailer in a non-commercial use with any pickup or SUV and you need a different class of license according to the statute. That seems to be a common statute in many states from the stories I have read. But where I live, you see lots of 2500 and 3500 pickups pulling dual 7,000# axle trailers and not get stopped. Most officers don't mess with it unless you are obviously loaded past the 26,000# GCWR limit - YMMV where you live.

I had a Class A non-CDL for driving fire apparatus. I let it go to a Class C after I retired but in hindsight I should have kept it for pulling my own trucks and trailers. Fortunately, Texas law allows for me to use my new GMC 3500HD at 14,000# GVWR to pull my Sundowner 15,900# GVWR horse trailer and my two Big Tex 15,900# GVWR trailers, all with farm tags, with my Class C license.

I watched the video about the guy without a CDL having to drop his trailer and get his buddy with a CDL to come get it after being stopped. He was over the 26,000# GCVR limit and the trailer was well over 10,000# GVWR. He tried to say he was not commercial. Officer didn't buy the non-commercial use story, his truck was registered to his company. Even if he had gotten by with the non-commercial excuse, he was pulling a 16,900# trailer with a Class C license. Either way he had to park the trailer and get somebody else with a proper license to come and get it.

These are from the Texas Driver's Handbook.

These are the exempt vehicle types:

 

[D&D]

Illegal for commerce. And it’s 26k and 1 pound. 26k even is non cdl.

Ok fine over 26k, the number wasn’t the sticking point. The fact that there are gaps for being non-commercial and legal exist was.

 

[D&D]

The FMCSA regs only cover CDLs, state law will govern non-CDL licenses.

Correct, the problem is some states don’t have a non-CDL class. They offer a class “c” OR a commercial license. Now how do you legally tow a +10000 trailer or drive a +26000 combined?

 

[D&D]

so my long term plan is to get a 40s to 50s truck and transfer the running gear to it after I have myself set up in CO.

, my bucket list has a B model Mack with updated running gear. Just love the way the B’s look. Of course, just dumping the cab and body on yours and swapping in a 50’s coe would be pretty slick too.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/listing/1954-gmc-custom-denver-co-2720066

 

[Hersheyfarm]

It has been a while since I was in the police academy, but I try to keep up on DL requirements to keep myself out of trouble. Each state will have its own laws, but most have adopted the federal FMSCA requirements for CDLs or they don't get federal highway dollars. CDLs come in Class A, B, or C for those drivers operating a commercial vehicle. There are also a Class A, B, and C non-CDL license. In Texas you can use a Class A or B non-CDL if you are driving certain exempt types of vehicles classified as commercial.

The FMCSA regs only cover CDLs, state law will govern non-CDL licenses. Where people get into trouble in Texas is the definition of what a Class C license allows you to operate - a single vehicle less than 26,001# GVWR pulling a trailer not to exceed 10,000# GVWR or 20,000# GVWR if it is a farm trailer. The below 26,000# GCVR does not come into play. Pull more than a 10,000# GVWR non-farm trailer in a non-commercial use with any pickup or SUV and you need a different class of license according to the statute. That seems to be a common statute in many states from the stories I have read. But where I live, you see lots of 2500 and 3500 pickups pulling dual 7,000# axle trailers and not get stopped. Most officers don't mess with it unless you are obviously loaded past the 26,000# GCWR limit - YMMV where you live.

I had a Class A non-CDL for driving fire apparatus. I let it go to a Class C after I retired but in hindsight I should have kept it for pulling my own trucks and trailers. Fortunately, Texas law allows for me to use my new GMC 3500HD at 14,000# GVWR to pull my Sundowner 15,900# GVWR horse trailer and my two Big Tex 15,900# GVWR trailers, all with farm tags, with my Class C license.

I watched the video about the guy without a CDL having to drop his trailer and get his buddy with a CDL to come get it after being stopped. He was over the 26,000# GCVR limit and the trailer was well over 10,000# GVWR. He tried to say he was not commercial. Officer didn't buy the non-commercial use story, his truck was registered to his company. Even if he had gotten by with the non-commercial excuse, he was pulling a 16,900# trailer with a Class C license. Either way he had to park the trailer and get somebody else with a proper license to come and get it.

These are from the Texas Driver's Handbook.

View attachment 842017

These are the exempt vehicle types:

View attachment 842004

Of all freedom loving states…texas is a 10k trailer state like cali. I think PA, NY are 2 others.
One thing that makes hot shot driving a niche is that some states expand the §383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups to include 10.1k trailers like Tx, and out of state hotshotters can swoop in without the need for that specific states cdl requirements.
Class c for ky which is basically the fmcsa.

• Any vehicle with a GVWR of fewer than 26,001 pounds transporting hazardous materials for which placarding is required;

• A single vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) if the GVWR is less than 26,001 pounds.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Correct, the problem is some states don’t have a non-CDL class. They offer a class “c” OR a commercial license. Now how do you legally tow a +10000 trailer or drive a +26000 combined?

move to a free state?

 

[Hay Dude]

The one that kind of irks me is when you see someone driving a 25,999 truck towing a 10K trailer. Thats a lot of iron rolling without a CDL.
Or the 80 yr olds driving enormous diesel pusher motorhomes.

The CDL rules & regs are in desperate need of changes because our work vehicles have changed, mostly for the better in terms of safety. The average guy can handle todays F-350 with a 12-14K trailer without expensive, lengthy training.

I am so happy to have my CDL. Got it 30+ years ago and it’s a blessing.

 

[D&D]

move to a free state?

Uh huh

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[Hersheyfarm]

And id like to raise the point again, in april 1992 when the cdl was requires and gvwr’s were assigned, the average pickup could only tow 10-12k and a 12k trailer weighed more than 3k.

today safety and engineering advancements have made towing many times safer. The assigned weight limitations need to be readjusted. In 1992 to pull 26k you were basically in a straight truck or dump truck and trailer that probably weighed 16k leaving only 10k capacity. With trucks and trailers now you can safely tow 36k with a 1 ton. To pull 36k back then you would have to have been in a tandem dump or tractor. Things change And advance.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Uh huh

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Let’s just regulate and legislate our lives into an oblivion. How confined do people need to be before they pop. I popped a long time ago. People need to realize that the sociopaths in suits that vote on this arbitrary stuff to confine us in the name of public safety are not worthy. Is there any legislature that you’d trust with your kid? No, they’re just a fake smile hiding an ignorant sociopath.

 

[D&D]

The one that kind of irks me is when you see someone driving a 25,999 truck towing a 10K trailer. Thats a lot of iron rolling without a CDL.
Or the 80 yr olds driving enormous diesel pusher motorhomes.

The CDL rules & regs are in desperate need of changes because our work vehicles have changed, mostly for the better in terms of safety. The average guy can handle todays F-350 with a 12-14K trailer without expensive, lengthy training.

I am so happy to have my CDL. Got it 30+ years ago and it’s a blessing.

That’s the problem I’m talking about. For those that aren’t doing commercial work, yet have a desire to move stuff that requires “big boy toys”. The bureaucrats creating the rules, driving their Yugo, escort, w/e decide, “no one needs to drive a class 8 truck unless they jump these hurdles”. They then make exceptions to the rule, then amend the rule, then clarify the rule. Now, the rule is so complex, no one can understand it.

Having a cdl is not a cure all, it creates complications under the exceptions. Do you have ELD’s in your trucks? Do you have a current medical card? Bill of lading? Fuel stamps?

 

[Hay Dude]

That’s the problem I’m talking about. For those that aren’t doing commercial work, yet have a desire to move stuff that requires “big boy toys”. The bureaucrats creating the rules, driving their Yugo, escort, w/e decide, “no one needs to drive a class 8 truck unless they jump these hurdles”. They then make exceptions to the rule, then amend the rule, then clarify the rule. Now, the rule is so complex, no one can understand it.

Having a cdl is not a cure all, it creates complications under the exceptions. Do you have ELD’s in your trucks? Do you have a current medical card? Bill of lading? Fuel stamps?

Yes, I carry required documents. I was just DOT’d last week but not cited for anything.

 

[D&D]

Yes, I carry required documents. I was just DOT’d last week but not cited for anything.

ELD too?

 

[Hay Dude]

ELD too?

I was told I fall under the short haul exception

 

[D&D]

I was told I fall under the short haul exception

Right, one of the “gray“ areas. What happens if you decide to buy a dump body in Michigan and haul it home yourself. Trooper A - not needed, Trooper B - gotta have it, here’s your ticket.