[KUBOTA B3200] Grader Blade / Box Blade Recommendation for Driveway Maintenance

[paulsharvey]

So, we really need to get you to Good Enough, not perfect. 1000 yard drive, is gonna be 3000x10=2,000,000 lbs of base to get 6" thickness; that's 1000 tons; or a Bare minimum of $15,000 dollars in just the cheapest material around.

There is an Extensive thread a few months back, with in depth discussion on driveway materials, pros, cons, costs, ect. I'll try to link?

 

[Forest_Man]

No offense; but looking at what you have now; Why would you have scarifiers down? Your gonna want to drag the slop off, not loosen up the ground more. You should only need rippers in hard, packed, heavy soils,

No no no... two things we miscommunicated:

1. I need to wait for the driveway to dry before attempting anything. Not working on it until then.
2. I was talking for any usage of the blade box, not for the wet driveway: I do have dry sections of the driveway that are solid but with pockets of holes that need to be leveled. I will need the scaifiers there. And if I buy the 6 ft box I was asking if I had traction issues i was confirming i would be able to raise a few and still use the 6 ft box.

I hope this makes more sense now!

 

[paulsharvey]

The old thread was "pricing asphalt driveway". I copied one of my replies, was too lazy to retype the whole thing....


There are a Lot of options
A: dirt; cheap to free; can be fine for many people/conditions/soil types; sometimes a dirt or sand drive can seem fine, until a heavy vehicke breaks though; can always be improved later; on a slope, erosion can get Very bad fast; its entirely depended on your local soils/slopes/drainage; DIY friendly with tractor/skid steer; or nothing ar all

B: wood chips on dirt; cheap to free; works well many times But it will need removed if improved; can attract termites; can float in heavy water; can wash; Need to have a free source, like a power ROW clearing contractor; not easy to grade;

C: improv stabalized; carpet/conveyer belts/ect; can actually work very well; look ghetto as heck, really need to be removed if you make improvements

D: sand-clay/ball field clay; cheap (if locally available); doesn't wash too bad; can be added to with more clay/rock/ect; can actually be paved over; gets slimy in rain; stains vehicles/clothes/tracks into house; if you get it delivered, you can easily spread/grade with tractor/skid steer/mini hoe

E: gravel/roadbase; can get pricey with trucking, but if close locally, it's pretty cheap; properly installed will last a long time, can be added too/redressed/regraded/paved over; some roadbase (limerock) will wash pretty bad; washed graded gravel doesn't really bond into a homogenous base; even if you add a few loads of rock every 5 years, it's still probably far cheaper than asphalt or concrete; if delivered can easily be spread/shaped with tractor/skid steer/whatever

F: crushed concrete; very good material; can be priced near roadbase depending on trucking; very dusty; water doesn't hurt it, unless it's high volume/high velocity; can be added too/paved over; often has some wire, and can lead to flat tires; easily spread and shaped intialy; can be hard to regrade later

G: RAP/millings; getting very expensive, ($900/load locally, and that's off the roadway); pretty much only available near a milling job or an asphalt plant; water doesn't really affect it much; less dusty than crushed concrete; can be paved over; don't believe it's a magical material; it doesn't turn back to asphalt in the summer

H: chip seal over one of the base materials; cheaper than asphalt; protects the base from water; eliminates dust; pretty good traction; it's very thin, and won't last as long as asphalt; don't see. to be many contractors still doing it; requires a tack truck or atlwast a tack wagon, and a rock spreader, and traffic roller; Not DIY friendly; can be paved over in the future; can be re chip sealed.

I: asphalt; cheaper than concrete /pavers; dust free, not affect by rain/minor run off water; you do need to patch and crack seal as needed; can be milled or overlayed; fairly easy to cut or demo if needed; not DIY friendly, however, you really can Pave a small area with a dump trailer, box blade, and a plate tamp; in 90% of cases asphalt will be laid on top of another base material; but full depth asphalt, using asphalt as a base is also done in areas where time or water are critical issues; that gets extremely expensive when you start talking about 6-9" of asphalt.

J: concrete; if done correctly, with good subgrade it should outlast you, but is very expensive; poorly done concrete costs just as much, but will be a mess as quick as anything else; unaffected by petroleum/most chemicals; unaffected by water; cutting/demo very expensive; can Not be overlayed; can be very good looking; needs cure time after pour. Pretty DIY friendly, and can be done in sections/phases; many contractors; concrete plants deliver on ready mix trucks; can be pumped in some pretty bad terrian; can be groved to improve traction on slopes;

Few odd ball options;
Soil cement; has to be the right native soils (sandy, low organics); can be paved over; water doesn't break this base down; if soils are right, you are only importing the Portland cement to mix in; can't really be regraded after it cures; can reflect cracks though asphalt
Geostabalized grids; pretty costly, has to be paired with an aggregate base; can help bridge bad subgrade, but eventually the subgrade will rear its ugly head; don't know if it needs removed or top coated with additional base to Pave over?
Pavers; probably the most expensive, and to do properly for long life, they need to be on a good base; often grow mold/slime; will settle individually; can often remove a few broken ones to repair or remove and replace to trench under the drive; can also be mortared in

 

[paulsharvey]

No no no... two things we miscommunicated:

1. I need to wait for the driveway to dry before attempting anything. Not working on it until then.
2. I was talking for any usage of the blade box, not for the wet driveway: I do have dry sections of the driveway that are solid but with pockets of holes that need to be leveled. I will need the scaifiers there. And if I buy the 6 ft box I was asking if I had traction issues i was confirming i would be able to raise a few and still use the 6 ft box.

I hope this makes more sense now!

Yes, you could remove some, flip some, raise some up a hole, ect. You could also scarify with just the teeth down 3" blow the cutting edge, and the cutting edge off the ground, then flip/remove rippers, and then blade.

Traction Will be an issue; but that just means take less aggressive passes.

 

[Forest_Man]

So, we really need to get you to Good Enough, not perfect. 1000 yard drive, is gonna be 3000x10=2,000,000 lbs of base to get 6" thickness; that's 1000 tons; or a

hey, what's the 3,000 and the 10? Could you explain how you did this math?

I will actually measure the lengths of driveway that need repair (about 50% of is in solid and dry condition) and would like to understand your math so that I could re-do it later and figure out how much material to buy.

Bare minimum of $15,000 dollars in just the cheapest material around.

Crusher Run? am I on the right track with this crusher run thing the gravel salesperson told me or nor? What is the best value material I should be pricing?

There is an Extensive thread a few months back, with in depth discussion on driveway materials, pros, cons, costs, ect. I'll try to link?

Bro, I am in sponge mode. Please, if you find it, link it!

 

[Forest_Man]

The old thread was "pricing asphalt driveway". I copied one of my replies, was too lazy to retype the whole thing....

Amazing class. Thank you.

 

[Forest_Man]

Yes, you could remove some, flip some, raise some up a hole, ect. You could also scarify with just the teeth down 3" blow the cutting edge, and the cutting edge off the ground, then flip/remove rippers, and then blade.

Traction Will be an issue; but that just means take less aggressive passes.

Sounds like i'll start my searching for a 6 footer.

Thank you!

 

[Williy]

Our LS land plane was $1300+ works great don't
leave a pile of dirt like a box blade

willy

 

[paulsharvey]

hey, what's the 3,000 and the 10? Could you explain how you did this math?

I will actually measure the lengths of driveway that need repair (about 50% of is in solid and dry condition) and would like to understand your math so that I could re-do it later and figure out how much material to buy.





Crusher Run? am I on the right track with this crusher run thing the gravel salesperson told me or nor? What is the best value material I should be pricing?



Bro, I am in sponge mode. Please, if you find it, link it!

So, you said 995 yards long, so, that's where I got the 3000 LF. You said 12 ft wide wasn't gonna happen; so I used 10 feet wide as the width. I then converted the Square Feet to Square Yards by dividing by 9. Most roadbase materials, as a really brought brush, weigh about 100#/sy/inch of thickness. IE 6" of road base, over a 3 ft x 3 ft area, is gonna be approx 600 lbs.

 

[paulsharvey]

A Huge issue that pops up on here is; the locally accepted names for road base materials Vary a Lot from area to area. Crusher Run (we call that limerock road base) is a mix of material from dust upto maybe fist sized material, that when rolled, with proper moisture turns into a pretty monolithic, coherent base. This is pretty much the ideal material for a good base.

'Gravel' or washed, screened rock; doesn't really pack; this is what we call #57 or #89 or whatever, it kinda keeps moving as it doesn't have the fines to 'lock' everything together. The advantage of 'gravel' is because it doesn't pack well, it's essentially already packed. It doesn't settle in pipe ditch, and isnt affected by wet areas, however it will get pushed into a soft subgrade, and over time, your Gravel goes away. All the time, that Gravel being pushed into your subgrade, it does firm up the whole system.

 

[Forest_Man]

Crusher Run (we call that limerock road base) is a mix of material from dust upto maybe fist sized material, that when rolled, with proper moisture turns into a pretty monolithic, coherent base. This is pretty much the ideal material for a good base.

'Gravel' or washed, screened rock; doesn't really pack; this is what we call #57 or #89 or whatever, it kinda keeps moving as it doesn't have the fines to 'lock' everything together. The advantage of 'gravel' is because it doesn't pack well, it's essentially already packed. It doesn't settle in pipe ditch, and isnt affected by wet areas, however it will get pushed into a soft subgrade, and over time, your Gravel goes away. All the time, that Gravel being pushed into your subgrade, it does firm up the whole system.

Okay... but which one are you recommending then? I'll get both prices tomorrow.

 

[paulsharvey]

Okay... but which one are you recommending then? I'll get both prices tomorrow.

So, that really depends on how representative your pictures are, your budget, and local prices. If you have the coin, and none of the area has a water issue (once ditches are cut); a 4"-6" min of crusher run road base for the entire width/length is going to do you wonders for years. If you have swampy low areas, or springs, gravel/washed rock isn't going to get soupy, as there are no fines; but road base/crusher run will.

If your trying to do get the most results with the least expense; adding a few inches of any stone/gravel/base to your bad areas will help; and as money flows, you can always add a few more loads every year; maybe stock pile a load or two to bucket material to any developing problems through out the year.

What I'm trying to say; there is the $2000 answer, the $20,000 answer, and a $120,000 answer.

The $2000 answer (maybe it's more like the $4k answer) is dig that ditch with used rear blade (maybe $350); get 3-4 loads of the cheapest rock type material available locally, place in the worst areas, only enough to get you through. Plan to continue spending another $2000/year on additional material each year.

The $20,000 Answer is cut that ditch, add cross drains, ect, order something like 20-30 loads of base/crusher run; and place approx 4" of that material down, 10 ft wide. Your still gonna need to add another $600/year probably to problem areas.

The $120,000 solution (pulled that number completely out of my butt); would be hire it done, ditch cut, culverts, ect; 6-8" of crusher run; 12 ft wide; maybe topped with something, or chip sealed. This would probably last 10+ years with zero maintenance;

 

[D&D]

Awesome video! Really informative, thank you! We do have Woods and Land Pride nearby. Good to see Land Pride in the top list. Came across a used on for $800 with 5 feet.

Regarding weight, I understand the importance of weight but I suspect it must be a balance with my B3200 limitations: 32HP + R4 tires (did I get this right?) + loaded tires + 8" spacers + quick hitch.

Kubota lists box blade weight at 500 Lbs maximum. Is this a good number already to maintain a driveway? I suspect lack of weight would mean more passes? Or what would you recommend for a box blade length and weight for my package and total inexperience?

Here is the rear end of my tractor:

well, if I read it right, the B3200 is 23 hp so a 6 foot box would be a bit much for it to chew on. And yes, the book shows 500lbs implement weight but also says the 3 point can lift 1300lbs.

https://kubotabooks.com/AutoIndex/index.php?dir=Tractor%20Owners%20Manuals/&file=B3200%20WSM.pdf

 

[D&D]

Dang bro... i don't want to tell you that I've been living here for almost 4 years and without a AWD car.... Yes, it is doable. Only got stuck once. But yeah... it looks a lot worse now than normal. Normally it only looks bad.


My plan is to rent excavator as needed - already have a french drainage project coming up this year.

I plan on playing with the excavator at the same time and try creating some drainage ditches - what bucket size would be the best for someone that doesn't know **** about what they are doing? A 9" 12" 18"?


Drainage on each side and 12' wide is not going to happen. God bless you and I hope one day we'll do it. But not for now.

Crowned x Sloped Road: could you expand a bit on this or point me to good literature that explains exactly the cons and pro's of each; costs differences; degree of complexity and energy spend building these two solutions? I need to understand this better.


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My commitment to the cause is solid. I am even trying to learn as much as I can about all of this.

If your road , is as it appears, I would choose the 3rd drawing (but point the pink arrow the other way).No ditching required. See out sloping in attachment

https://dirtandgravel.psu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/TB_Crown_and_Cross_Slope.pdf

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/sites/default/files/topic/ForestManagement/MNManagingWater_8-Shaping-roads.pdf

 

[deezler]

Dang bro... i don't want to tell you that I've been living here for almost 4 years and without a AWD car.... Yes, it is doable. Only got stuck once. But yeah... it looks a lot worse now than normal. Normally it only looks bad.

My plan is to rent excavator as needed - already have a french drainage project coming up this year.

I plan on playing with the excavator at the same time and try creating some drainage ditches - what bucket size would be the best for someone that doesn't know **** about what they are doing? A 9" 12" 18"?

Drainage on each side and 12' wide is not going to happen. God bless you and I hope one day we'll do it. But not for now.

Crowned x Sloped Road: could you expand a bit on this or point me to good literature that explains exactly the cons and pro's of each; costs differences; degree of complexity and energy spend building these two solutions? I need to understand this better.


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Well hey, kudos to you sir. I don't understand how we don't see crazy ruts all of that drive in your pic, if you do drive on it daily?

Sorry if my first reply was harsh, I've learned over the years here to be blunt with newer members to get their perspectives aligned with the true challenges they will face, so I made the assumption that you were just getting started here.

Personally I like a proper full crown on the road bed, draining to each side. This is the best way to keep the road bed consistently drier, as it sheds water the best, and thus also lends itself to less erosion of your gravel material. However, in a bench cut into a hillside, this does mean that you need to add culverts periodically that will take the runoff water back under the road and away. These culverts can be tricky to get right, and do require maintenance over time - best if you can avoid them when possible. How long is your total drive, and how much length of it is bench cut into the hillside like the first pic? Edit: 955 yards?!? half a mile in that muck? Dang!

If not going with a full road crown, then outslope is easier to manage than inslope. Inslope means you are putting a LOT of water into your hillside ditch, that again needs to be evacuated before it's too crazy.

Enjoy your excavator rental! I always got mine (Bobcat E35, a ~8000 lb machine) with both a 12" and 24" bucket. The 12" bucket is for digging trees out, but at that narrow size, can clog up with clay sometimes. 24" is a good size for shaping ditches and slopes, but will make pulling trees out more difficult. Either way, get a hydraulic thumb as well, so that you can grab roots/stumps/trees and toss them around. With 2-3 days of work, you can definitely achieve a wider driveway bed, with shaped crown and uphill side ditches! You might need to put 20+ hours on the machine though. Plan for continuous work with it, and then cleaning things up with your tractor afterwards.

Maybe add your rough location to your user profile, so that everyone can see it on the left side of your posts. This will help us understand your soils/rocks, weather conditions, and local gravel options, which do vary quite a bit.

 

[deezler]

I'm gonna chime back in to STRONGLY recommend you stick with a 5' box blade for your B3200. 32 horsepower of engine can drag a 6' unit well in the right conditions, but your machine is very lightweight. Inertia is often what keeps a heavy pull moving through soil, not just rated power.
According to this, your machine is only 53" wide, so a 5' unit will cover your tracks well.

The general advice here on TBN is to buy the size box blade that covers your rear tire width by a couple inches, but don't go bigger. A 6' unit with the scarifiers down will easily stop your little B3200 dead in its tracks. A 5' probably will too, but a little less often, haha. The other factor is when driving through the forest, a 6' unit will bonk into trees more. Keep it tight.

 

[rScotty]

By now, we've seen on TBN that any size tractor can do any project. It's just a function of how long it takes. To my eye, you need a bit larger tractor if this is not to be a recurring long term project.

If you want the most versatile implement, a 6 foot 3-way rear blade with tilt, angle, and offset is the standard. It pulls about like a 5 foot box blade. Adding the optional removeable End Caps to the rearblade allows that type of rear blade to work as either a box blade or grader blade. The 3-way adjustment allows you to do trenching, crowning, and reduces the pull force required when the load gets heavy.

That type of 3-way adjustable blade with optional end caps and maybe a gauge wheel is not only the most versatile, it is expensive. So be prepared. Land Pride makes them, or did. In either manual or power adjustable for the tilt, angle, and offset.

I think you can do without rippers based on your project photos.
rScotty

 

[Forest_Man]

well, if I read it right, the B3200 is 23 hp so a 6 foot box would be a bit much for it to chew on. And yes, the book shows 500lbs implement weight but also says the 3 point can lift 1300lbs.

It should be 32HP engine power. I believe the PTO is 23HP or something like that...

 

[Forest_Man]

If your road , is as it appears, I would choose the 3rd drawing (but point the pink arrow the other way).No ditching required. See out sloping in attachment

Very good literature. Thank you!

And I totally see how the arrow in my drawing is misleading - yes, it should point reversed.

I am trying to learn more about the ditching and the complexity around doing it. But good to know there are simpler options without the ditching.

Thank you!

 

[Forest_Man]

I made the assumption that you were just getting started here.

Your assumption is still correct, I am just getting started here.

Personally I like a proper full crown on the road bed, draining to each side. This is the best way to keep the road bed consistently drier, as it sheds water the best, and thus also lends itself to less erosion of your gravel material. However, in a bench cut into a hillside, this does mean that you need to add culverts periodically that will take the runoff water back under the road and away. These culverts can be tricky to get right, and do require maintenance over time - best if you can avoid them when possible.

Very clear and I am seeing my options a little better.

How long is your total drive, and how much length of it is bench cut into the hillside like the first pic? Edit: 955 yards?!? half a mile in that muck? Dang!

The total length is 955 yards. I need to measure lengths of road that are in desperate need of repair - not the entire length is bad.

If not going with a full road crown, then outslope is easier to manage than inslope. Inslope means you are putting a LOT of water into your hillside ditch, that again needs to be evacuated before it's too crazy.

Very clear. And thank you for the language: inslope x outslope. I believe outslope is this drawing here but with the arrow pointing to the correct direction:

The 12" bucket is for digging trees out, but at that narrow size, can clog up with clay sometimes. 24" is a good size for shaping ditches and slopes, but will make pulling trees out more difficult. Either way, get a hydraulic thumb as well, so that you can grab roots/stumps/trees and toss them around.

Very good info, thank you.

Maybe add your rough location to your user profile, so that everyone can see it on the left side of your posts. This will help us understand your soils/rocks, weather conditions, and local gravel options, which do vary quite a bit.

Upstate NY.