Thoughts on 100hp tractor options

[hayden]

90 PTO HP, give or take, seems about right, and corresponds to about 100 net engine HP.

What I keep seeing is that if I want a full power shift transmission or a CVT transmission, I have to go to some combination of a bigger tractor and/or significantly more expensive tractor. So I'm coming starting to conclude that my choices are to live with operating a clutch-to-shift transmission, or just continue with what I have today. A couple of the clutch-to-shift transmissions have a single hi/lo range control that is power shift, and that might just be all I really need or can justify. The CVT transmissions sound great, but I can't justify double the cost over a clutch-to-shift sized for my needs.

 

[Hay Dude]

It’s not double the cost between 2 masseys or AGCO’s or Fendts if one is power shift one is CVT.
This is an older tractor comparison of Auto-6 Power shift and CVT. The difference is $7,000.
CVT’s come with additional features not found on a power shift other than the transmissions being easier & safer to operate.

It’s one of those features you have to be convinced to try, but once you try, you’ll never go back.

TractorData.com AGCO RT140A tractor information

www.tractordata.com

 

[Rustyiron]

Didn't you mention 1500 acres?
Is it mostly wooded with you mowing a few old hillside pastures?
That's a great hunk of land!

 

[Sawyer Rob]

For sno-blower use with a gear trans, I'd definitely want "creep" gears, with a Vario you don't need creep.

SR

 

[Hay Dude]

Most all CVT’s have high & low range.
I was dubious of their drawbar power. When I compared them, they actually pulled as well or better than a power shift.

Not that I ever want to find out the replacement cost, but according to my service manager at AGCO dealer, CVT’s are less than or equal to power shifts to repair. However, the ownership experience of operating one for 10,000 hours is worth the extra up-front cost. They have made my tractoring life very enjoyable (for now).

In the used market, a CVT doesn’t add very much to asking prices. I usually see about a $5,000 premium for a used rig with a CVT.

I remember long ago a guy telling me how much I’d love a CVT for baling & mowing. I was dubious of the claim.

I remember him saying “you can get the tractor set at JUST the RIGHT speed”.

He was 100% right. There’s no more hunting for the right gear. They are incredibly smooth and easy and safe to operate.

 

[hayden]

Didn't you mention 1500 acres?
Is it mostly wooded with you mowing a few old hillside pastures?
That's a great hunk of land!

That's correct. Most of the land is timber land. I mow about 12 acreas that's broken up into a number of smaller patches. A few old pastures, a couple of former building sites where I removed the buildings but still mow to keep it open, and a few logging landings. I also mow about 10 miles of woods roads/trails. My current tractor and mower are more suitable for the woods roads, and probably some of the landings. I have another 20 acres are good hay fields, but a local farmer cuts that - at least for now. It's increasingly difficult to find people who want to hay around here. I used to get paid, but now I'm lucky to have someone keep the hay in exchange for mowing and bailing.

 

[hayden]

It’s not double the cost between 2 masseys or AGCO’s or Fendts if one is power shift one is CVT.
This is an older tractor comparison of Auto-6 Power shift and CVT. The difference is $7,000.
CVT’s come with additional features not found on a power shift other than the transmissions being easier & safer to operate.

It’s one of those features you have to be convinced to try, but once you try, you’ll never go back.

TractorData.com AGCO RT140A tractor information

www.tractordata.com

I think that's consistent with what I'm seeing. In general, power shift and CVT are in larger tractors, say 140hp and up, with not a huge difference in cost between the transmissions. But you have to want/need a 140hp tractor for either transmission to even be part of the discussion. The Fendt 200 series is an exception HP wise, but in a smaller tractor it would appear that the cost of the CVT stands out more compared to the cost of the rest of the tractor, so creates a much more expensive machine with the CVT in a 100hp machine. In the bigger, more expensive tractors, it's easier to hide the cost of the nicer tranmissions.

Yesterday I found some good videos explaining the Massey Dyno-2 and Dyno-4 transmissions - something that Massey does very poorly, and where other videos are pretty incoherent. The Dyna-4 in the 5700 tractors may be a really good compromise for what I want. So the search/education continues.

 

[hayden]

I have been continuing to research various tractors and this has taken an interesting turn. I was really liking the Massey 5711, but discovered that the loader is only available with Euro coupler.. If starting fresh I'd have no problem with a euro coupler, but I have several SSQA implements that I want to use on any new machine and don't want to buy them again. So I have to have an SSQA loader. The only way to get that on a 5711 is to use a 4700 series loader and significantly reduced capacity. So that killed the 5711 for me.

I had previously dismissed Deere because everyone said they are much more expensive, but I decided to take a look anyway, and am glad I did. I have to say, the 5M series looks to be a much more capable and better outfitted tractor than any of the alternatives. It's available with a full 8 speed powershift where Massey only offers 2 speed hi/lo power shift, or 4 speed powershift. And Kubota is only 4 speed power shift too. And the Deere is right in teh same ball park cost-wise, and definitely not significantly more expensive. They also have a MUCH wider range of options and add ons. And the Deere dealer is the closest of all for me. So at this point they are at the top of my list. Now I just need to find one that I can get in to try.

 

[LHF2019]

I have been continuing to research various tractors and this has taken an interesting turn. I was really liking the Massey 5711, but discovered that the loader is only available with Euro coupler.. If starting fresh I'd have no problem with a euro coupler, but I have several SSQA implements that I want to use on any new machine and don't want to buy them again. So I have to have an SSQA loader. The only way to get that on a 5711 is to use a 4700 series loader and significantly reduced capacity. So that killed the 5711 for me.

I had previously dismissed Deere because everyone said they are much more expensive, but I decided to take a look anyway, and am glad I did. I have to say, the 5M series looks to be a much more capable and better outfitted tractor than any of the alternatives. It's available with a full 8 speed powershift where Massey only offers 2 speed hi/lo power shift, or 4 speed powershift. And Kubota is only 4 speed power shift too. And the Deere is right in teh same ball park cost-wise, and definitely not significantly more expensive. They also have a MUCH wider range of options and add ons. And the Deere dealer is the closest of all for me. So at this point they are at the top of my list. Now I just need to find one that I can get in to try.

Why not an adapter instead of giving up on a tractor you want

 

[LouNY]

The Euro-Global quick hitch is much stronger, easier to use and much safer then the ssqa.

 

[ptsg]

The Euro-Global quick hitch is much stronger, easier to use and much safer then the ssqa.

I agree. Such a breeze to use. No second guessing if it will stay hooked to the loader or not. I often move implements around without even latching it. The simple auto-latch is also pretty neat.

 

[hayden]

Why not an adapter instead of giving up on a tractor you want

That's a possibility, assuming one is available which it probably is. But it woudl push all my implements forward a few inches, and at this point I like the Deere 5M more in a bunch of other ways, especially the transmission which is one of the key things I'm after. Deere offers an 8 speed powershift with 4 ranges that are synchronized. So you can clutch with a clutch button and shift ranges while moving. Total speeds are 32F, 16R. The Massey is similar in operation, but only 4 speeds in 4 ranges.

 

[hayden]

The Euro-Global quick hitch is much stronger, easier to use and much safer then the ssqa.

I agree, and like I said if I were starting from scratch that's what I would go with. But I have a number of existing implements that I want to use that are SSQA.

 

[LouNY]

I know that my 85 hp Branson has warped a couple of lighter duty ssqa plates

 

[Rustyiron]

Pretty sure that we have Bobcat to blame (probably not the best term) for the now widely accepted SSQA.
It used to be every SS manufacturer that offered a "quick" hitch had there own version. Of course I give Bobcat credit for development of this handy machine but their patent must have expired and the best idea didn't win.
In Bobcats defense, it was probably just fine for the weight and HP of those early machines.

 

[Hay Dude]

Why not an adapter instead of giving up on a tractor you want

Yep. I run an adapter, so I can use both types of attachment styles.

A high quality adapter will run you about $1,000.
Euro/Global is so much nicer that you’ll want all Euro/global attachments. Mine even has hydraulic hook up, so I can attach/detach from the seat of the tractor

 

[Sportsman762]

Pretty sure that we have Bobcat to blame (probably not the best term) for the now widely accepted SSQA.

I was told a story by a gentleman who was fairly high up in an competitor that when all the skidsteer companies got together to determine the standard bucket attachment that bobcat said they were completely on board as long as it was their quick attach that was adopted. So the other companies agreed knowing that Bobcat had the largest market share and that the standard would fail if they were not on board.

 

[Seven Gables]

I bought a 5115M about 3 years ago, been a rock solid tractor, no issues. Completely agree with all the previous comments , the euro quick mount is the only way to go even if you had to replace your current attachments.
Another thing to consider is which loader to go with. I’ve got the 540m loader on my 5085E and went with the 540r loader on the 5115M . Both are rock solid and each has it’s slight advantages. I like the 540m for it’s longer reach , excellent for pushing burning brush piles together and keeping the rest of the tractor at distance away from hot coals. 540R advantage is its compactness, doesn’t stick out as far and aids in maneuverability. Bought the 540M separate from tractor and installed myself.
I think you’d definitely like the 5M , they may be a bit pricier but you get what you play for

 

[LHF2019]

I have 2 adapters from this company. I have 2 different old Deere loaders and needed them so didn't have to modify all my attachments. I know everybody gets concerned about the "couple inches" but unless your going to be extremely abusive there is no issues. The one I use the most is 10 years and used daily and I doubt most people have something similar to the square bale grapple. You don't get much further out than this. It's a lot weight out there on the loader.

EURO, GLOBAL LOADER TO UNIVERSAL SKIDSTEER (GREEN)

Euro global Loader to Skid Steer-attachments adapter Green. 800 283 7107. Proudly made in USA in Lamar, MO. Estab. 1976

hayspear.com

I don't have a good side angle of the grapple. I'm always driving.

 

[Hay Dude]

I agree, and like I said if I were starting from scratch that's what I would go with. But I have a number of existing implements that I want to use that are SSQA.

Once you see how nice euro/global is, you’ll thank us for switching.