Another 3pt logging winch thread

[Code54]

I have been looking for a 3pt logging winch (6min -10k max) to clean up 15-20 acres of rather hilly WV land, heck, some of it is very steep. I know it is something I will use a bunch all this year then only occasionally in future years. I realize they are expensive but the safety it affords in our hilly terrain would be worth it. We also have a bunch of trees hung up from a wind storm last year so I also feel it would be very helpful in aiding me to safely remove them.

Now the question. Has anyone been using a MechMaxx or TMG winch? I realize it is not a top tier winch but does seem it will do everything I need as a homeowner and not a real logger. The under 3k price is really nice since I just ordered a stump grinder. Both winches have a blade to transfer force to the ground, anti-spool brake, plenty of cable and it weighs enough that I would expect it is fairly heavy duty. (I think they are the same winch with different paint)

It seems finding a used one is right up there with hitting the lottery and the prices are really not that much cheaper than new so thus I been looking for a new one.

It will be run on a Kubota MX5100 (50hp) and used alongside a Kubota 91 Mini Ex.

Any thoughts? Advice ?

 

[rumwrks]

So I looked pretty hard at the MechMaxx/TMG winches recently but ended up pulling the trigger on the Tajfun (some of the other winches also look great, the tajfun was local so no shipping and I could go touch it which counted for a bit). I ended up with the 35A, I think you'd be better off with the 45A. I talked to the Tajfun rep a bit and for my 55HP tractor he recommended the 45A but I also wanted to be able to run it on my smaller 25HP machine (mostly.. because I have a lot of smaller stuff that needs to be yanked across creeks.. and it's pretty boggy a lot of the year so the lighter machine actually works well for what I want). His recommendation was to have the weight of the winch at 1/3 or less of your 3point nominal lift capacity. He also said I shouldn't have any problem running it with the 55H tractor (I specifically asked if it was a risk for tearing it up and he said no, the winch will just not pull more than the winch can pull).

It is a fair bit more expensive though.. at least compared to the MechMaxx, once you price in the included it was competitive or better with the TMG. Here's the prices I was quoted for the 35/45 earlier this year.

• Logging winch EGV 35 A (7900lb) - includes PTO Shaft, 3 x Sliders, Chainsaw holder and Wire rope Ø9mm (190ft) $3,990.00
• Logging winch EGV 45 A (10000lb) - includes PTO Shaft, 3 x Sliders, Chainsaw holder and Wire rope Ø9mm (220ft) $4,860.00

The reasons I decided to go with a non-chinese import (I believe most of the euro and the american winches have basically these features) was:

• Lower pulley option, yes I could weld on a pulley and a swivel for it but it was nice to have it built in (and it's designed to hold the cable properly..)
• Heavier gauge steel for most parts
• I liked the placement and design of the log lift points better (I've seen some complaints of the mechmaxx bending)
• better protective cage
• comes with 3 swivel sliders (equivalent from hud-son is $92/ea Swivel End Fitter - T3 - Hud-son)
• Saw holder included ($100 ish)

I will admit the $2500 TMG sale really had me questioning my decision...

I would also not a few strong cautions on using these on hills. Even the "smaller" winch is plenty strong to flip your tractor over sideways, anchoring it so you're pulling against the blade is important (also why I wanted the lower pulley..). You want to pull uphill whenever possible or at least be VERY aware that if a log rolls downhill and can roll past you that can result in a Really Bad Day, this is sort of an extension of the "sideways bad" problem. If you're pulling uphill it can get dicy if the tractor isn't on a fairly flat spot because you can also pretty easily flip yourself over backwards (again.. lower pulley helps..).

 

[Gordon Gould]

You have to be mighty patient to find a used winch as you know. But that shows you that you can get most of your money back especially if you invest in a known brand with a good reputation vs an unproven brand.

As rumwrks said there is no problem putting a smaller winch on your tractor in order to get the price closer to what you can do. You will not destroy or beat up the winch. As the operator you have full control of how you treat it. I have a Farmi JL290 6600 lb winch that weighs about 350 lbs and it is amazing what it will pull.

You are exactly right about a winch making your access to the wood in hilly terrain not only better but much safer too no matter which winch you choose.

gg

 

[Code54]

Great info, thank you.

I agree the lower pully is really nice. The one advantage I have is we have a LOT of trees to keep a log from rolling very far, most places 10' would be the average.

The idea that a smaller winch will work is a good point. A neighbor is looking at a dozer with a winch so I will have the ability to get anything that is too big to handle with the tractor. Honestly this is to clean up the woods, not really log the woods, so I can always cut stuff a bit smaller to make it safer and easier to handle. Good point!

It does seems the clutch, cable and brake is the only things even remotly complex on these winches. I really dont see how they command the prices they do - darn things are expense for what they are.

 

[rumwrks]

The one advantage I have is we have a LOT of trees to keep a log from rolling very far, most places 10' would be the average.

The other trick I've seen some folks do, that I think is a good idea, is to leave some limbs on the sides when you're skidding around sidehills to keep the logs from rolling and then finish trimming them once you get them to a landing.

I think we're in a similar use case. I have about 20-25 acres of 30-35 year old replanted doug fir which is mostly 12" and under than needs thinning really badly. The log yard value of them is really minimal and wouldn't even pay for the haulage so I'm just kind of working out slowly as I go and using it for firewood and logs and poles around the property (plus we found some mushroom spawn that works on fir so I'm also building out some mushroom beds with some of the 3-5" trimmings).

It does seems the clutch, cable and brake is the only things even remotly complex on these winches. I really dont see how they command the prices they do - darn things are expense for what they are.

I'd agree... If i had more fabrication capability it'd be tempting to DIY.. OTOH I already have more projects than time so maybe not hah (see also why I opted to pay a bit more for the features, which honestly I'm 99% sure I could mostly have added to the TMG.. but...). I think a lot of it is that they're kind of a low volume specialty product which generally commands a bit of a premium.

I also looked at the ones with remotes and boy howdy you want to get some sticker shock!! If I decide I really want that, I feel pretty confident I can fab that up with some linear actuators to drive the levers for maybe a couple hundred bucks.

You have to be mighty patient to find a used winch as you know.

Ironically there was a really nice wallenstein that showed up about six months ago, but it sold in under a week while I was tied up at work and couldn't get to it (maybe 2 hours away)... and then another one turned up for a good price about 2 weeks after I bought the Tajfun (it was older.. but.. looked pretty decent). So they are out there (at least out West here) but you do have to be watching closely and willing/able to jump and get them when they show up (so there's the finding them, and then there's the getting to them fast enough problem).

 

[dstig1]

Most of a logging winch is not hard to DIY if you are skilled...Except the clutch mechanism. I think that is where the problems will crop up. Of course you could buy those components from one of the major brands and then build around it, but it probably will end up costing more than new. You can't beat production stuff for cost on one-offs unless you have a Steel Fairy that drops off free stuff in the middle of the night. The biggest valid reason to DIY stuff like this is that you have a need for something unique. Or you just like doing it for fun.

 

[dougtrr2]

Consider a self releasing snatch block. I have a dense hilly forest and it is invaluable to me.

You mentioned removing hung up wind damaged trees. It can get dicey. One trick is to wrap the choker around the tree such that it tends to roll it on the initial pull. If you try to pull and release to shake a tree loose make sure you drum brake is adjust to prevent "bird nesting". I tried to break off a hickory that had snapped 20' up by pulling and releasing. I wound up with a birds nest that took an angle grinder to free. The good news was I only lost 5' of cable, the bad news was it was almost exactly in the center the the 190' I had.

Be safe.

Doug in SW IA

 

[Code54]

Lol - thanks for the info guys. It is appreciated.

Good info on pull downed trees, I do perfer not to deal with a birds nest! Ha

I looked more at the Tajfun but it seems NO one around stocks them. Heck no one around here stocks anything. One can order a Wallenstein but the shipping and "setup" charges are insane. I also asked about a used one and every dealer said they never see one and most never even sold a new one. Go figure.....

 

[rumwrks]

The other winches I looked at include:

• igland - which seems to be mostly? midwest.. Winches and Igland Winches where the two dealers I found (not exactly local and the igland find a dealer page didn't work for me other than showing one dealer in quebec... might have some luck calling the ID office Kontakt oss | Nosted)
• Hud-son uniforest winches Locate a Hud-Son Dealer Near You - Hud-son seemed to work and they have a few in your neck of the woods. They have prices on their site as well Uniforest Skidding Winch 35M Tractor Attachment or Uniforest Skidding Winch 45M Tractor Attachment are comparable to the Tajfun's. I liked the looks of the layout on these maybe a touch more than the Igland.
• Farmi - Winches | Farmi Forest Shop This seems to be the only US importer Farmi Winches

On the lower end... but still pretty functional.. A friend of mine built a capstan winch out of a vevor hydraulic motor and a cheap capstan very similar to this one.. He said it actually works really well, I think he was under $500 all in (he mounted it on a plate he welded onto his box blade so didn't need another 3pt frame). He has burned through a couple of ropes.

https://norwoodsawmills.com/products/skid-winch-hydraulic-log-skidding-winch-for-tractors?variant=45330456805697

 

[Code54]

Thanks!

I like the Uniforest but the dealers that are close (2+hr) seem to be more into sawmills and the one I called said they could get them but shipping would mostly be 700-800 then I have a 5hr round trip to get it. Ugh

I figure I will keep looking used and hoping for the best. If that dont work out I may end up trying the Mechmaxx - I know poeple like the stump grinder. If I could find some reviews I would be far more interested in it. I figure I can add a lower pulley. The thing is heavy (over 600lbs) so I would expect it is well built but.....

 

[Code54]

Rumwrks - Thank you for your help!

 

[John_Mc]

Thanks!

I like the Uniforest but the dealers that are close (2+hr) seem to be more into sawmills and the one I called said they could get them but shipping would mostly be 700-800 then I have a 5hr round trip to get it. Ugh

I figure I will keep looking used and hoping for the best. If that dont work out I may end up trying the Mechmaxx - I know poeple like the stump grinder. If I could find some reviews I would be far more interested in it. I figure I can add a lower pulley. The thing is heavy (over 600lbs) so I would expect it is well built but.....

Hud-son is the US distributor for Uniforest. When I look at their web site, They show a flat rate shipping of $500 (I asked for shipping to 25213 in WV). I'm not sure if that is shipped to their closest dealer or direct to you.

Seems as though if you have a dealer in the area, you might be able to do better on shipping if you are willing to wait until that have some other order going in to Hud-son (If they have enough volume to get a dedicated truck, rather than an LTL shipment, you might do quite a bit better.)

 

[Code54]

THANKS. I did find a Hudson dealer in driving distance and will get ahold of him tomorrow. I found a Wallenstein that is also nice but a bit more. Not really sure if one is better than the other, it seesm they both are very well made.

 

[Jstpssng]

I believe that the Wallenstein is a bit better made, but that's one man's opinion.
I have a Uniforest and it does all that I need it to do.

 

[Code54]

That is where I am hung up - Uniforest, Wallensein, and Tajfun all look solid and should easily do everything I need. Is the Wallenstein worth some extra, maybe $750? I’m not really sure.

I mainly care if I can get parts in the future if needed, as they all seem to hold their value really well if I ever would want to get rid of it (which I doubt).

 

[John_Mc]

I believe that the Wallenstein is a bit better made, but that's one man's opinion.
I have a Uniforest and it does all that I need it to do.

I have no personal experience with Wallenstein - I've never even seen one in person. Most of the comments I've heard don't put it in the same league as some of the others, such as Fransgard, Farmi, Tajfun.

I own a Uniforest 35E. It's done what I've needed for about 15 years now. (The newer model 35M has a few improvements in the mechanism).

 

[Code54]

Thanks.
I plan on pulling 1 tree at a time as this is clean up and not running a logging operation. Do you find a 7k unit is large enough?

 

[ericm979]

Do you find a 7k unit is large enough?

For me it depends on what's around for the tree to hang up on. We have thick woods here.

I probably could have gotten a Uniforest 45M instead of the 35M as my Branson is heavy for its power and has loaded tires too. The 35M does not stress the engine at all.

The Uniforest has a longer cable than the Wallenstein. And it's got an automatic brake that engages when you stop pulling.

 

[John_Mc]

Thanks.
I plan on pulling 1 tree at a time as this is clean up and not running a logging operation. Do you find a 7k unit is large enough?

The Uniforest 35M is rated at 7700 lbs pull. I bought it because it's a good match in size for the tractor I'm using it with. It has plenty of pull for me, but then I'm not doing this for a living.

If I have a really difficult pull (like pulling the UPS truck out of the ditch they got stuck in), I'll use a snatch block to double the pulling power. That does take a little bit more time to set up than a straight pull, and the winching speed is cut in half. If I were looking for higher-production logging, I'd have wanted a bigger winch (and a bigger tractor), or a skidder. For my uses, and as little as I need it, I don't mind taking a bit of time setting it up.

As others have noted, a 7 or 8000# winch is undersized for what your MX5100 is capable of handling, but will work and not be damaged if you have the clutch set up correctly and use some common sense. It's more of a problem if you are using a winch that is too big on a small tractor.

 

[Code54]

After spending the day looking at, calling places, compairing specs, and talking to reps...... Im going with Tajfun EGV 45A (10K). It seems extreemly well made, more powerful than I really need, and a decent price. I wont take delivery until late February due to waiting at the ports but I am in no hurry so that is fine with me. Seeems like a really well designed and built unit and expect it will work perfectly for my needs.
Now, anyone know of a good sources of "how not to kill yourself with a logging winch" videos or threads.....

THANKS to all for your help and suggestions.