deere 110 tlb overheating

[coqui]

That makes sense. It sounds like yours is probably cooling via the bypass loop. As near as I can tell, the bypass cooling loop on Deere TLBs is there to prevent sudden overheating if the thermostat fails, and also to prevent surging of coolants having different temperatures. You could just take the thermostat out to see if the problem continues.

That sounds like the correct location for an overflow bottle Tee line. The overflow bottle is not about overheating, it's function is to keep coolant level constant.

There are actually two systems that connect into the air space above the level of the coolant in the radiator. One system maintains coolant level and the other is a relief valve in the radiator cap to prevent steam pressure from causing a steam explosion. Some systems tried to combine both into a single system and that didn't work so well. But if you understand what it was supposed to do it may help figure things out.

What matters to the overflow bottle is the height of the Tee in the radiator hose. JD put that fill hose feed where they did so it would be at whatever level they wanted to maintan as a constant level of coolant in the radiator. They did that because the coolant storage bottle and Tee allows the coolant level to respond to volume changes in the cooling system due to temperature. Coolant is either forced into the coolant storage bottle if the level in the radiator is too high, or it is sucked out of the storage bottle by the vacuum formed if the level in the radiator is too low.

For the overflow system to work properly, the radiator cap has to seal tightly enough to hold a vacuum as well as a pressure. Best to use a new OEM one. Also, the hose from the Tee over to the coolant storage bottle has to be nice and tight without any near invisible internal age splits - if in doubt, just replace that hose. And the hose itself has to be long enough to go to the bottom of the coolant storage bottle. The bottle itself needs to be at the original mounting height relative to the radiator to allow it to work right. Usually the Max line on the bottle is a few inches below the normal coolant level in the radiator. Then the coolant storage bottle should be primed with enough coolant to cover an inch or so above the bottom end of the hose.

The other system in the upper air space within the radiator is a steam relief system that ports out through a hose that goes to the open air....or down to the ground. That system is your safety against a steam explosion. It is usually ported in the neck of the radiator and is activated when steam lifts the bottom seal on the radiator cap against that spring in the cap. When overheating is so severe that it steam is generated, raising the internal seal on the radiator cap allows steam to escape to prevent an explosion. This happens with a sound that will definitely get your attention. That rarely happens, but when it does, the steam has to be allowed to escape freely.

There are a few variations on the system I've just described. Some designers try to combine both functions. You can identify some of those because they also have a pressure cap on the coolant storage bottle.

My hope is that knowing what each system does is helps you with your JD 110. Use it gently, they are nice machines. I wish JD had kept them in the lineup and given them some more development.
rScotty

Well, it sure sounds like yours is one in which they tried to combine both functions. Having the pressure cap on the coolant storage/filler tank is diagnostic. Combining the functions wasn't real popular because the system can lose coolant over time without your being aware of it happening.

Not being aware of coolant being lost can lead to an head gasket or warped head - as you found out. If it were mine, and I was satified that the head was milled flat to take out the warp..... along with a good new head gasket and no other problems - then I would just make sure that the joints and all hoses on your coolant system are all as near new as possible, and then resolve check it often.

After all, your system apparently worked fine for years since new. So we know it is capable of cooling properly if everything is like new. If you added that plastic tank like i think you did, it won't hurt and might even help.

As to your question about why does the shop manual descibe a test that holds max operating pressure of 14 psi for only 15 seconds..... My guess is they are saying if it holds that pressure for 15 seconds without leaks or pressure drops then that is long enough to call it good. I would agree with that when testing a new system with all metal connections and connecting tubing with new hoses. But when there are older rubber hoses involved, I'm afraid their shop manual is overlooking what happens with old rubber hoses. A simple short term pressure test won't always show small leaks in old rubber hoses.

The answer seems not to be any one thing. At this point I'd say replace all the coolant system hoses and connections with new. Add some real temperature gauges where you can, and check the coolant fluid level religiously..... which reminds me that I should do the same. I haven't been checking mine nearly often enough.
thanks for the reminder,
rScotty

Only hose not replaced yet is the one from tee to tank that's next. I have a burbing funnel for the fill and will give it an extra long run in. This 110 also has coolant lines from the water pump to an oil cooler that is part of the oil filter housing and 2 small lines to the fuel injection pump.question any possibility those componets( or hoses) could be causing a problem? I don't see any external leaks anywhere. thanks again richard

 

[coqui]

Have you tried putting the thermostat in a pan of water and putting it on the stove and checking to see if the stat opens
to the temp of approx 200 degrees F

Are all the hoses new?

willy

Tested the old thermostats in water and checked out ok.

 

[rScotty]

Only hose not replaced yet is the one from tee to tank that's next. I have a burbing funnel for the fill and will give it an extra long run in. This 110 also has coolant lines from the water pump to an oil cooler that is part of the oil filter housing and 2 small lines to the fuel injection pump.question any possibility those componets( or hoses) could be causing a problem? I don't see any external leaks anywhere. thanks again richard

All that sounds good with the coolant lines. Some TLBs wth old fashioned EGR valves even run coolant into a shell around the muffler to cool the exhaust before recycling. There are lots of uses that benefit from coolant heat exchange. If you see no leaks, I don't see how those systems would be causing a problem .... unless the problem is that an air bubble somewhere is blocking the circulation. The more systems there are, the more chances for a bubble.

In your original post you said, " engine slowly heats up and under load starts to overheat. coolant overflows expansion tank and is bubbling yet radiator not hot."

That quote and your mention of a burping funnel makes we wonder if we are missing something on the filling and burping procedure. What does the shop manual say? Can you post the section on filling the coolant?

I also think it is worth re-reading the comments in posts #18- #20 by dadohead and dodge man regarding air locks. They had similar problems, and might have some specific hints too.
rScotty

 

[Mike1955]

Well, it sure sounds like yours is one in which they tried to combine both functions. Having the pressure cap on the coolant storage/filler tank is diagnostic. Combining the functions wasn't real popular because the system can lose coolant over time without your being aware of it happening.

Not being aware of coolant being lost can lead to an head gasket or warped head - as you found out. If it were mine, and I was satified that the head was milled flat to take out the warp..... along with a good new head gasket and no other problems - then I would just make sure that the joints and all hoses on your coolant system are all as near new as possible, and then resolve check it often.

After all, your system apparently worked fine for years since new. So we know it is capable of cooling properly if everything is like new. If you added that plastic tank like i think you did, it won't hurt and might even help.

As to your question about why does the shop manual descibe a test that holds max operating pressure of 14 psi for only 15 seconds..... My guess is they are saying if it holds that pressure for 15 seconds without leaks or pressure drops then that is long enough to call it good. I would agree with that when testing a new system with all metal connections and connecting tubing with new hoses. But when there are older rubber hoses involved, I'm afraid their shop manual is overlooking what happens with old rubber hoses. A simple short term pressure test won't always show small leaks in old rubber hoses.

The answer seems not to be any one thing. At this point I'd say replace all the coolant system hoses and connections with new. Add some real temperature gauges where you can, and check the coolant fluid level religiously..... which reminds me that I should do the same. I haven't been checking mine nearly often enough.
thanks for the reminder,
rScotty

Great thing to share rscotty. I learned from that

 

[coqui]

All that sounds good with the coolant lines. Some TLBs wth old fashioned EGR valves even run coolant into a shell around the muffler to cool the exhaust before recycling. There are lots of uses that benefit from coolant heat exchange. If you see no leaks, I don't see how those systems would be causing a problem .... unless the problem is that an air bubble somewhere is blocking the circulation. The more systems there are, the more chances for a bubble.

In your original post you said, " engine slowly heats up and under load starts to overheat. coolant overflows expansion tank and is bubbling yet radiator not hot."

That quote and your mention of a burping funnel makes we wonder if we are missing something on the filling and burping procedure. What does the shop manual say? Can you post the section on filling the coolant?

I also think it is worth re-reading the comments in posts #18- #20 by dadohead and dodge man regarding air locks. They had similar problems, and might have some specific hints too.
rScotty

the manual fill instructions simply say fill resevoir open bleed screw(there's only one) till air bubbles stop(its on the tee) check level cold 1 inch in tank. I got the funnel that sits airtight on the filler neck and leave it in place high idle for a while.tried filling without thermostat same result,put tractor on steep inclines opening bleed screw same result. put a new cap tested it with pressure pump.and will give everything a once over again this weekend.when I did drained the system which is now several times never really saw any sludge,debris.going to remove thermostat and test it tomorrow trying to leave no stone unturned.we did do a compression test but the mechanic had a makeshift adapter even so the numbers were all close and within tolerance. did not do a cylinder leak down test.(yet). This is the second new water pump. first one was off amazon second came from deere dealer who sold us the tractor who says its serial number specific to our tractor. thanks for the ideas and help richard

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I assume (???) the new head gasket was correct, didn't block or restrict coolant passages.
Years ago I remember cutting a radiator hose in two, then putting a section of clear PVC pipe clamped in so I could see coolant flow.
Temporary of course. The radiator staying cool is a puzzle.
I assume (?) all of those parts weren't replaced at the same time?
Was it running fine...then noticed a small crack in head gasket...replaced head gasket then overheating started?????
That's key information.

 

[dadohead]

The radiator staying cool is a puzzle.

Yeah, that's why it sniffs of an airlock to me. An airlock will allow local areas in the head to get hot (near the sensor) while the remaining regions are properly cooled. The gage/light will scream "overheat" way before the rest of the engine is barely warm.

Regardless of the OM procedure, I'd remove the radiator cap and let it run... proven way to purge air from the system. Costs nothing to try.

 

[coqui]

Yeah, that's why it sniffs of an airlock to me. An airlock will allow local areas in the head to get hot (near the sensor) while the remaining regions are properly cooled. The gage/light will scream "overheat" way before the rest of the engine is barely warm.

Regardless of the OM procedure, I'd remove the radiator cap and let it run... proven way to purge air from the system. Costs nothing to try.

going to run with cap off. already did the clear tube in radiator hoses in line but will do again. parts replaced twice first a recored radiator and after market fuel pump ,cap and thermostat and now all parts from our john deere dealer.

 

[rScotty]

Yep, anytime the cooling system is opened always run with the cap off until you are sure the air is purged. If there is air and a hot spot it will just burp it out and you add more coolant. That way you never have to wonder.

What the history on all the radiator core replacements? What started that? A radiator is about the last thing I'd figure to be a problem.

 

[sd455dan]

I used to think the “airlock” was an urban legend. I’ve changed antifreeze on cars, trucks and tractors and never had a problem. I helped a friend fix a coolant leak in his car. He took a short drive afterwards and it overheated. We eventually got the air out and it’s been fine since.

My China tractor does it every time the coolant is changed. Has to get hot shut off or leave the cap off till it dumps some coolant, Burps and then the block finds about a gallon more of capacity than the original refill.

Some other engines have a bleed tap so you can fully bleed the coolant system before the start button pushed or key is ever turned . Others you have to let them cycle and circulate to get the air out. If a replacement thermostat does not have a small bleed I drill a small hole in them so I don't have to fight a completely sealed thermostat to get warm enough to open if there is no coolant touching it, Sometimes leave the thermostat for last during reassembly and fill till the coolant shows up then install the stat.