Longer bar for Stihl M261 - relative novice.

[WinterDeere]

I have to admit, I almost never pull that side off my saws. I remember having the recoiler off the 064 just once, to replace a broken pull cord, and have probably never popped that cover off the other two. I do blow thru it with compressed air, so hopefully not too terrible, but should I remove the covers and check?

 

[xyz123]

I have to admit, I almost never pull that side off my saws. I remember having the recoiler off the 064 just once, to replace a broken pull cord, and have probably never popped that cover off the other two. I do blow thru it with compressed air, so hopefully not too terrible, but should I remove the covers and check?

I would. They get bad under there.

 

[WinterDeere]

Speaking of pull cords, your photo was a little small to see for sure, but were some of those 084's without compression relief valves?!? oof!

My 036 has one, but that saw is small enough that I rarely even bother to use it. My 064 must have pretty high compression, or a comparatively small-diameter spool on the recoiler, because that is the toughest saw I've ever pulled over. Thankfully, my 084 had de-comp, I'd think you'd almost need a kick starter on those things without!

 

[xyz123]

Speaking of pull cords, your photo was a little small to see for sure, but were some of those 084's without compression relief valves?!? oof!

My 036 has one, but that saw is small enough that I rarely even bother to use it. My 064 must have pretty high compression, or a comparatively small-diameter spool on the recoiler, because that is the toughest saw I've ever pulled over. Thankfully, my 084 had de-comp, I'd think you'd almost need a kick starter on those things without!

All 84's have them. Decomps.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Good post, but just to clarify one point, all Stihl pro saws I've ever owned have adjustable oilers. I've heard that some of their cheaper homeowner and "farm and ranch" series saws lack adjusters oil their oilers, but I've never bought any of those.

My husky and all the husky I have seen have adjustable oiler as well.

 

[ernemats]

My battery powered saws also have adjustable oilers. greenworks and ryobi

 

[Hay Dude]

I looked at a few saws over the weekend and discovered that some modified saws seem like they were ruined by their owners.
I don’t have any saw mods on mine, but am open-minded to any/all that offer benefits.
Seems like the #1 mod is opening up the exhaust and that adds loudness.

 

[xyz123]

Depends on person doing mod. Muffler mods are a first step on stock saws.

On a stihl 290-390 a simple muffler mod can get you 18% to 23% quicker cut times.

Echo 2511 28% by just putting on a Egan pipe.

The echo's and lot of stihls are held back by mufflers.

 

[Fields_mj]

This has probably already been said, but 20" is about as long as I'd run on a 261. The oil pump will likely struggle to keep up on anything longer than that. 261 normally runs .325 pitch chain and the longest bar they make for .325 chain is 20". Swapping to a .375 pitch rim/drive sprocket will allow you to run a .375 pitch chain and bar. They make just about every length bar in .375 pitch.

Personally, I wouldn't go more than 18" on a 261. If the 16" bar cuts 70% in one pass, I'd say its the ideal bar length for what you're cutting. Its easy enough to cut from both sides for the other 30%. Realistically, a 16" bar can cut an 18" log in one pass if you use the right technique. Running a longer bar reduces the amount of tq and hp available to make the cut. Going with a 20" bar so you can make 30% of your cuts in one pass will slow the saw down for the other 70% of the cuts. It also cuts slower on the 20" cut, but it may be faster than having to walk around and make the additional cuts from the back side.

If most of what you cut is hardwoods over 12", and you're you're cutting enough that the 16" bar seems to be slowing you down, you might want to consider a 60cc or 70cc saw with a 20"-24" bar. I cut a lot of hickory and oak in that size, and my primary bucking saw(s) are my 036s. I run 18" bars on them, and I can generally reach through 20"-22" rounds without having to walk around and cut from the other side. If I'm going to be cutting a lot of stuff that's in the +18" range, I'll pull out a 90cc saw just so it has a chance to run once in a while. I bought the big saw because I occasionally get into stuff that's in the 30"-50" range. I don't have a 70cc saw. If I did, I'm not sure I'd ever start my big saw. I have an 026 as well (predecessor to your 261, and about 20% less hp), and a 16" bar is ideal for it in hardwoods. I use it mostly for limbing, but I'll also grab it for bucking up stuff that's in in the 8"-10" range.

I will say that every saw I own gets the muffler gutted, and the carb re-tuned accordingly. Yes, they are louder, but ear pro is mandatory if I'm running a 2 cycle tool anyway. If I wanted something quiet, I'd buy a battery powered saw, which I may do at some point.

 

[WinterDeere]

I looked at a few saws over the weekend and discovered that some modified saws seem like they were ruined by their owners.

I've heard the same. My local saw shop says they do more repairs and rebuilds on mod'd saws than stock saws, due to either bad mod's or folks pushing them past their design points. These are guys who do nothing but repair saws all day long, it's a dedicated pro saw shop who sell Stihl, Husqvarna, Echo, and Redmax.

They always argue buying a bigger saw, over mod'ing a smaller one, but then again... they sell saws!

Seems like the #1 mod is opening up the exhaust and that adds loudness.

I bought straight-shot mufflers for both my 036 and 064, but after hearing how much louder it made the 036, I held off installing the one purchased for the much larger 064.

I can see the appeal, if you really need a little more horsepower to run a longer bar, or want minimum weight for a required horsepower. But the 064 already has the horsepower I need for the 28" bar that I'm running on it 99% of the time, so my desire to make it much louder is a bit less, than with the somewhat underpowered (for 20" bar) 036.

 

[Hay Dude]

I've heard the same. My local saw shop says they do more repairs and rebuilds on mod'd saws than stock saws, due to either bad mod's or folks pushing them past their design points. These are guys who do nothing but repair saws all day long, it's a dedicated pro saw shop who sell Stihl, Husqvarna, Echo, and Redmax.

They always argue buying a bigger saw, over mod'ing a smaller one, but then again... they sell saws!


I bought straight-shot mufflers for both my 036 and 064, but after hearing how much louder it made the 036, I held off installing the one purchased for the much larger 064.

I can see the appeal, if you really need a little more horsepower to run a longer bar, or want minimum weight for a required horsepower. But the 064 already has the horsepower I need for the 28" bar that I'm running on it 99% of the time, so my desire to make it much louder is a bit less, than with the somewhat underpowered (for 20" bar) 036.

I’ve always kind of been a “buy the right size/power from the factory” type of person than a “mod” person.
Chainsaw mods are great, especially for the guys who make money doing them, but not so great for the users hearing, or the noise they create for bystanders, neighbors, etc.
I like the MS-661 I tried out, but dang that thing was LOUD.

Is $1,000 for a light to moderately used 661 with a 25” bar too much? I think it is, especially since I want a 32” lightweight bar. I offered $900, but he balked.

 

[mrgreenjeanstx]

I have run a MS 260 for years. I have a 16" bar and a 20 bar. I went to the dealer with similar desires as yours and asked about a bigger bar. they recommended the 20 would be the largest to run on that saw. It has performed well. I recently stepped up to the MS 462 to handle the bigger jobs. Very nice saw and has done well on larger projects.

 

[Hay Dude]

I have run a MS 260 for years. I have a 16" bar and a 20 bar. I went to the dealer with similar desires as yours and asked about a bigger bar. they recommended the 20 would be the largest to run on that saw. It has performed well. I recently stepped up to the MS 462 to handle the bigger jobs. Very nice saw and has done well on larger projects.

I am lucky that I am enjoying the saw choices I made so far, but I don’t want to spend too much on the next purchase. I won’t use a 30” + saw more than 15-20 times per year.
This purchase will have to be a pre-owned saw and it would be best if it comes with the right sized bar. Buying a separate lightweight bar & chain gonna run you another $200 (new)

 

[WinterDeere]

Is $1,000 for a light to moderately used 661 with a 25” bar too much? I think it is, especially since I want a 32” lightweight bar. I offered $900, but he balked.

The price might not be terrible for someone who needs the saw, but with your 500i already in the cupboard, there's much less justification for keeping an MS-66x.

MS-661 = 7.2 hp / 16.5 lb
500i = 6.7 hp / 13.9 lb

At less than 10% difference in horsepower, the MS-661 is too close to the 500i to be anything more than a much heavier emergency backup. If you really need to run a bar that the 500i can't hadle, I'd skip right to the 084/088/MS-88x saws.

The big 84/88/88x's are slow churners, or at least that's how I've always seen them set up. I suspect they were primarily designed for guys running mills, but you can always throw a larger sprocket onto one to bring chain speed up equivalent with an MS-661.

 

[xyz123]

661 with its long stroke of 37mm will shine over a 500 short stroked 34.6mm pretty easily with long bars. This part has nothing to do with HP they do. It's about torque. I'm talking 36" bar etc.

32" even to me is still a short bar. 36" up where I count longer bars starting point.

Plus then the 661 2mm bigger bore on top of that too.

Heck my 71cc 77cc pull 3/8 32" ripping fine and stumping.

 

[kozal01]

I’ve used chainsaws intermittently throughout my life, just around farm and building fence. I feel comfortable using and sharpening them. But always using them ‘as they came’. Most I ever had to do was change chains and plugs.

I recently purchased an M261 and it works great… but I’m finding I need a longer bar. Currently has a 16” bar and Stihl .325 chain. I see a lot of Oregon bars on Stihl saw and thought I’d look at them. This is where I recognized the tip of the extent of what I don’t know about saws.

My needs are at least 20”, but honestly, I’m looking to get something for bigger trees. Before I just ‘get a 20”, I thought I’d ask opinions.

The 16” is great in that it is light, quick, and easy to use on 70% of everything I do. But I’d like opinions on what you find as your most ‘useful’ bar/chain combos, and why? I need something ‘long enough’ to be different that the 16” as I have several trees to fell that are larger than 16”. I think a 20” would do most, but I’m open to longer, if my saw will handle it and there is utility. I don’t want what I don’t need, but I’m also uncertain about that real need.

Do you have recommendations on a longer bar/chain combo for M261for some mixed, 30-50yo, hardwood, overgrown, Kentucky fence line tree felling?
Would you go longer than 20”?

I just sold my 261 because I was needing to use a 20" bar on it regularly and it just wasn't the right saw for it. It'll pull a 20" but it does slow it down, I personally wouldn't run anything longer than 18-20 on that saw. If you have to maybe try a full skip chain to help keep the RPM up in the cut.

 

[Dadnatron]

I appreciate the replies... it really does help me understand the limits of what I have vs what I need.

I think the thing for me to do is get a bigger saw. I'm looking at the MS462 range... I found one on FBMP, but I'm a bit leery about buying a used saw, as I don't really know 'enough' about used saws to know what to look for.



I'm pretty confident I can avoid massive issues, but if there are more subtle things to look for on a 462, things which are just waiting to be sent in for overhaul, I'd appreciate your knowledge.

What should I look for when purchasing a used saw? What would you recommend doing to try NOT to buy something worn out?

 

[5030]

I never buy used gas powered equipment like chainsaws or brush trimmers or anything that requires a gas-oil mix simply because straight gas in a saw does serious internal damage, The saw may start and run but you can bet the piston and cylinder scored and possiblt the needle bearings in the con rod or the big end on the crank is damaged.

I buy all my saws new as a rule.

Working part time at am Echo dealer, I get to see all the user inflicted damage people do and I'll aways pass on a used saw or brush trimmer. Unlike the 'Junk Chainsaw' guy on here, I have no desire to repair then because of some one else's stupidity.

LIke my ancient Stihl 028. It's old enough to vote but runs like a scalded dog because I took care of it, never abused it and NEVER straight gassed it.

Forget the used saw unless you want to buy someone elese trouble.

 

[5030]

Certainly not like a new saw is all that expensive compared to a new tractor and even new tractors get dumped because the owner abused it or never changed the fluids.

A grand for a new saw is chump change unless your are that poor you cannot afford it and if you are, forget about buying a chansaw anyway because your prioroties are askew.

 

[xyz123]

462's had a case and piston update and is done by serial number.

I wouldnt buy the older ones. They were known to break their pistons etc.

When I tested locals 462 and 500. I preferred the 462.

Might check out the Echo 620 too. Cheaper then a 261 but 59cc. Run up to 24" easy and seen folks run 28". They have long stroke and hot porting stock.