Longer bar for Stihl M261 - relative novice.

[5030]

One thing I've never failed to comprehend and that is, why people must buy a saw with a bar that is longer than the largest tree they plan on cutting down. Longest bar I run is 20". If the tree in question had a diameter bigger then 20", I split the cut. Not to say I don't own larger bars because I do, I just don't use them. My Stihl 090G carries a 4 1/2 foot bar and my 075 Stihl carries a 36" bar. Both are insanely heavy (saw and powerhead) and not at all comfortable to use. Bought them a long time ago when I owned and operated a tree removal business and they were only used for bucking trees on the ground, prior to hauling the logs away. They both sit on a shelf in the shop, devoid of fuel and oil, collecting dust today. I might sell them someday as they are both worth some serious jack.

99% of the time I use my Echo Top Handle Arborist saw and it has a 14" bar on it and it serves my needs just fine. It's light, easy to start and easy on fuel and it didn't break my wallet to buy either. Dropped some large trees with it in the past as well. It's my 'go to' saw because it's easy to operate. I do use my 520 Echo Timber bear as well as my 028 but I prefer the top handle over all of them. the 520 and the 28 both have 20" roller nose bars with greaseable noses.

Bigger is better may apply to some things but it don't apply to chainsaws, least in my opinion.

 

[MarblemountLane]

I’m going to go with the guys who said get the longer bar but keep your shorter bar & chain. If you only need the longer bar now and then, you can be patient with the cutting. Heck, I have an 18” on a little MS180 (barely over 16” usable before you hit the dogs), but it’s a saw to carry in the trunk in winter, not do continuous work.

That being said, I now have 20” bars on all four of my Homelite super EZ Autos; the one I bought new in December 1974 was the last to switch from 16” to 20”. (I’m sure you can guess my favorite small saw.)

My big Husky 385XP (which I think of as my “new” saw because I gave $400 for a demo saw that would have been $800 new - in 2002) has both 28” and 32” bars. I’ve used the 32” with ripping chain and my Alaskan Sawmill. Pretty sure it would pull 36” but I’ve never needed it.

I say run what matches the saw and works for you, in your wood, but don’t be afraid to use a long bar now and then for special jobs.

 

[5030]

Whatever you do, don't buy a new Stihl bar (the ones with the funky design on them), they aren't all that good. Having said that, not my personal poinion, only what I've read about them.
Again, 20" is more than adequate for all but the largest trees anyway, least in my view it is.

 

[xyz123]

I wished I had had a 42" and my G3120 I have now for this stumping I did. But only had a 32" and G466 77cc. Part I cut was 46"x45"

Sure aint getting it stumped with no 20"

 

[Lavender Valley]

I run 2 saws, 445 X torq and a 365 special, both commercial saws. The 445 I run a 20-inch bar, and the 365 has two bar lengths, 24-inch and 28-inch. The 28-inch has a skip-tooth chain and cuts faster than the 24-inch. There are lots of options that can be done without overloading the saw's power.

 

[xyz123]

I appreciate the replies... it really does help me understand the limits of what I have vs what I need.

I think the thing for me to do is get a bigger saw. I'm looking at the MS462 range... I found one on FBMP, but I'm a bit leery about buying a used saw, as I don't really know 'enough' about used saws to know what to look for.



I'm pretty confident I can avoid massive issues, but if there are more subtle things to look for on a 462, things which are just waiting to be sent in for overhaul, I'd appreciate your knowledge.

What should I look for when purchasing a used saw? What would you recommend doing to try NOT to buy something worn out?

Look for 462's above this serial number for the updated ones.

April 2021 at Serial 190015190

 

[Jrasband]

I wished I had had a 42" and my G3120 I have now for this stumping I did. But only had a 32" and G466 77cc. Part I cut was 46"x45"

Sure aint getting it stumped with no 20"

Yeah you can it just takes longer. You have to make vertical cuts and break it up into multiple pieces.

 

[5030]

I use a stump grinder myself, No putting a chain in the dirt, what a carbide toothed stunp grinder is for.

 

[Mudfarmer]

What's all the fuss. The MS261's I have all came with 20 inch bars from the dealer. They work just fine.

 

[Hay Dude]

The price might not be terrible for someone who needs the saw, but with your 500i already in the cupboard, there's much less justification for keeping an MS-66x.

MS-661 = 7.2 hp / 16.5 lb
500i = 6.7 hp / 13.9 lb

At less than 10% difference in horsepower, the MS-661 is too close to the 500i to be anything more than a much heavier emergency backup. If you really need to run a bar that the 500i can't hadle, I'd skip right to the 084/088/MS-88x saws.

661 is definitely a “bigger bore” saw, but I like that idea, too. I still think of a 500i as a “light” saw. To me it feels like the last light saw they make, but has nice power.
After that, they jump pretty good in weight.

The big 84/88/88x's are slow churners, or at least that's how I've always seen them set up. I suspect they were primarily designed for guys running mills, but you can always throw a larger sprocket onto one to bring chain speed up equivalent with an MS-661.

My dealer just quoted me $1,579 for a new 661 with a 32” bar.
He also gives me a 10% discount ($1,421) and no sales tax.
At $1,421 for a new saw, $1,000 for a used saw doesn’t sound like a good deal for the used one. I offered $800 and of course he balked, but $800 is almost 60% of new and that’s right about what % of new that solid used equipment should sell for.

 

[WinterDeere]

I’m going to go with the guys who said get the longer bar but keep your shorter bar & chain.

Good plan. And you can always run skip chain on longer bar and full comp on shorter bar. That's what I do with my 85cc saw, 28" with full comp and 36" with skip.

That being said, I now have 20” bars on all four of my Homelite super EZ Autos; the one I bought new in December 1974 was the last to switch from 16” to 20”. (I’m sure you can guess my favorite small saw.)

I had a Super EZ Auto. Totally different animal than a modern MS-261. The EZ Auto's and their variants ran super-low RPM's and chain speeds, versus today's saws. They had comparatively higher torque, and had no problem pulling a longer chain, as a result of that.

Those Super EZ Auto's were only 40 - 45cc, if I recall correctly, but had no problem running the same length bar that you'd put on a 55 - 60cc saw today.

Whatever you do, don't buy a new Stihl bar (the ones with the funky design on them), they aren't all that good. Having said that, not my personal poinion, only what I've read about them.

I stopped buying Stihl bars when they got rid of the grease hole for the nose sprocket bearing. My two most recent were Tsumura Total and Windsor Speed tip, and I like both, but neither are very light.

The new Stihl lightweight bars are supposed to be pretty good, good enough that I might ignore the lack of a greasible nose and the silly foo-foo design that looks like it belongs in my mother's kitchen, ca.1995.

My dislike of non-greasible bearings has nothing to do with grease life or how a sealed bearing can perform over decades, but everything to do with hydraulic action, the ability of grease to eject wood chips and long-strand fibers generated when noodling large rounds. I've lost more than one bar in the past to long-strand wood fibers binding up around a sprocket nose.

Again, 20" is more than adequate for all but the largest trees anyway, least in my view it is.

Up to 40" diameter, in theory, but more practically 36" to 38" diameter. I cut a lot of trees over 40", so I use a 28" bar most of the time. I keep the 36" for those occasions when I need to cut something over 55" (literally once per decade), or more commonly, occasions when I need to fell a 30" tree without accessing it from both sides.

What's all the fuss. The MS261's I have all came with 20 inch bars from the dealer. They work just fine.

lol... maybe for you guys cutting pines and firs in the west. Using a saw that small with a 20" bar in any large oak would be an exercise is self-torture.

 

[WinterDeere]

I offered $800 and of course he balked, but $800 is almost 60% of new and that’s right about what % of new that solid used equipment should sell for.

I'm with you. Whenever selling used equipment, I figure on 50% of new. Even if new and clean, you're still expecting buyer to assume risk of a no-warranty transaction. $1000 for used vs. $1400 for new, I'd just buy new to avoid the hassle and have a warranty.

And xyz123 makes a good point about the torque of the 661 that I missed. He knows way more about individual models than me. I'm just a guy who makes a crap-ton of firewood for personal use, I think he actually works on saws as a business.

 

[xyz123]

I use a stump grinder myself, No putting a chain in the dirt, what a carbide toothed stunp grinder is for.

You aint stump grinding all of this off.

Hazard tree was no way to drop as one. But you wouldn't understand that.

Thats why it was stumped by me so I could have my guy bring his grinder in.

Once stumped then grinder work.

 

[xyz123]

Someone say carbide chain. The good stuff by stihl.

Got to pay to play in the crap stuff.

Why I bought 2 loops and carbide wheel.

 

[Hay Dude]

Good plan. And you can always run skip chain on longer bar and full comp on shorter bar. That's what I do with my 85cc saw, 28" with full comp and 36" with skip.


I had a Super EZ Auto. Totally different animal than a modern MS-261. The EZ Auto's and their variants ran super-low RPM's and chain speeds, versus today's saws. They had comparatively higher torque, and had no problem pulling a longer chain, as a result of that.

Those Super EZ Auto's were only 40 - 45cc, if I recall correctly, but had no problem running the same length bar that you'd put on a 55 - 60cc saw today.


I stopped buying Stihl bars when they got rid of the grease hole for the nose sprocket bearing. My two most recent were Tsumura Total and Windsor Speed tip, and I like both, but neither are very light.

The new Stihl lightweight bars are supposed to be pretty good, good enough that I might ignore the lack of a greasible nose and the silly foo-foo design that looks like it belongs in my mother's kitchen, ca.1995.

I have a Stihl 25” lightweight bar and there’s no such nonsense on it.

My dislike of non-greasible bearings has nothing to do with grease life or how a sealed bearing can perform over decades, but everything to do with hydraulic action, the ability of grease to eject wood chips and long-strand fibers generated when noodling large rounds. I've lost more than one bar in the past to long-strand wood fibers binding up around a sprocket nose.


Up to 40" diameter, in theory, but more practically 36" to 38" diameter. I cut a lot of trees over 40", so I use a 28" bar most of the time. I keep the 36" for those occasions when I need to cut something over 55" (literally once per decade), or more commonly, occasions when I need to fell a 30" tree without accessing it from both sides.


lol... maybe for you guys cutting pines and firs in the west. Using a saw that small with a 20" bar in any large oak would be an exercise is self-torture.

I haven’t found that to be the case, but to each his own. I definitely wouldn’t want to run a 261C in hardwood all day, but haven't had much trouble running mine through 18” to 20” hardwoods like this ash. Cut this stuff like a champ.

 

[Hay Dude]

I'm with you. Whenever selling used equipment, I figure on 50% of new. Even if new and clean, you're still expecting buyer to assume risk of a no-warranty transaction. $1000 for used vs. $1400 for new, I'd just buy new to avoid the hassle and have a warranty.

If I add a 36” lightweight bar it’s $1,519. Problem with a new saw is it won’t see enough use. Thats a crap ton of $.
Which keeps leading me back to a used….
Just need to find one for $800 or under.

 

[WinterDeere]

I have a Stihl 25” lightweight bar and there’s no such nonsense on it.

Yeah, yours is a lot better. The bar about which 5030 was writing, and to which I was responding, is these goofy things:



I can only assume Martha Stewart was somehow involved.

I haven’t found that to be the case, but to each his own. I definitely wouldn’t want to run a 261C in hardwood all day, but haven't had much trouble running mine through 18” to 20” hardwoods like this ash. Cut this stuff like a champ.

Two things:

1. Yes, it'll do fine. But like you said, a 20" bar buried beyond the nose on a modern high-speed 50cc saw is not something I'd want to run all day.

2. I was really referring ot the case of cutting larger diameters, when I said "nose buried". The horsepower required to keep chain speed up really spikes as soon as the diameter of the wood exceeds the length of the bar, as pulling that chain around the end of the bar while in a blind cut creates a whole heckuva lot more drag. So I believe you, cutting 18" hardwoods with a 20" bar on a 261 is probably fine. But cutting 30" hardwoods with the same bar is going to be much harder on that small motor.

 

[PapaBob]

Back when men were MEN!
Actually I didn't know until I looked you can still buy a 2 man saw like that.View attachment 3558095

They are called misery whips and I can tell you from experience they are just that!! The art of sawing with them is to only pull from your side and never push.

 

[Dadnatron]

This is the quote I received for a Stihl MS462 wrap handle.

1 - 20" bar with 2 extra chains
1 - 25" bar with 2 extra chains

I went ahead and asked about Carbide chains.... well... THAT won't be happening.

1 - 20" - $409.99 + tax
1 - 25" - $479.99 + tax

 

[WinterDeere]

Their chain and bar prices are about 30% higher than elsewhere. Heck, you can pick up Stihl 33RS-72 chains on Amazon for $30, and no one ever claimed Amazon is the cheapest source for anything.

No comment on the powerhead price, I haven't shopped new powerheads in years, but if their chain pricing is any indicator...

I'm willing to pay 10% more to support local business, but usually not 30% more.