Buying a ZTR, what should I look for, or avoid?

[Runner]

Good post... but wrong thread!

Well, for the prices they charge for ZTR's, you should get a free bottle of gin.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

Good post... but wrong thread!

Too many tabs open and a distracting wife.

 

[Runner]

Too many tabs open and a distracting wife.

Distracting wife OK (as long at it's in a GOOD way...).

 

[WinterDeere]

...a distracting wife.

Lucky guy, but you don't need to brag!

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

I just got a used Kubota ZD326. I looked at new Scags, a used Gravely, and a ton of other stuff.

I am highly skeptical of the claim that a homeowner can't justify getting a diesel. If you have more than an acre or two, and you plan to be around for decades, a diesel seems like a good idea to me.

When I was shopping, I was told a gas engine is likely to die by 750 hours, and by 2,000, you should expect it to be scrap, while a diesel should go 3,000 before anything serious happens, and then it can be rebuilt. To me, 3,000 hours are probably 25 years.

Replacing a big gas engine by yourself costs $3,500+, so maybe $10,000+ over the course of 20 years, and it costs way more to have a mechanic do it. Unless your mechanic is a saint, expect to lose the use of your mower for a month or even three. What will you do about your grass while you wait? Diesel guys will still be mowing.

My understanding is that it's cheaper to rebuild a diesel than to replace a gas engine, and diesels are made to be rebuilt more than once. I'm no expert, so maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I have been told.

Gas engines have problems because of ethanol. I know about this firsthand. It is especially true where I live, with humid weather and all kinds of temperature fluctuations. Gas mowers burn more fuel and have to be refueled more often, which is really annoying. They are more complicated, so they have something diesel mowers never have: ignition problems.

Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I figured I could get at least 2,000 hours (call it 20 years) out of the used mower I just bought, with minimal repairs and easy maintenance. It may go a lot longer, and if it doesn't, I can have the engine rebuilt. I paid $5,500, and the best Home Depot gas mower, which is built to die after a few years of mowing 5 acres, costs around $3,000 more.

Additionally, Home Depot mowers are flimsy. My deck is 7 gauge. A Home Depot mower's deck is 10 gauge. That makes a difference if you want a mower that will last you 20 years. Home Depot and Cub Cadet expect you to be back in a few years to buy a new machine.

Speaking of new machines, I priced a Scag Turf Tiger II with a gas engine, and it was around $13,000 before tax. This is a really good mower. A Kubota would be somewhere around $18,000. Over 20 years, that's a difference of ~$300 per year. Seems worth it to me to get less refueling, no engine replacements, freedom from ethanol problems, and easier repairs and maintenance. And you can sell a 20-year-old Kubota. I'll bet there aren't many 2005 gas Scags on the market.

I was startled to learn how much money mowing your own lawn can save. Where I live, it could add up to over $100K in 20 years. That makes a commercial mower look like a gift.

 

[DK35vince]

Most gas engines offered on commercial zero turns have a 2000 to 2500 hour expected life expectancy. (I expect that many hours out of my gas zero turn engines. I have a 35Hp Kawasaki and a 37HP Vangaurd EFI with oil guard))
It would take me 30+ years to hit that many hours on my zero turns.
A diesel upgrade on my 2013 Hustler Super Z was over $4000 dollars if I remember correctly.
It would take me several decades in fuel savings to save to the break even point for the extra thousands spent for a diesel.
For me diesel just wasn't worth that much extra cost IMO.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

What I have seen on the web are people saying that gas engines haven't lasted that long in practice. Perhaps they are wrong, or maybe they are not treating their engines as well as they should, though. Anyway, I spent $5,500 for a mower that probably has more than 2500 hours left before the first rebuild, and I won't have gas problems, frequent fuelings, or ignition issues, so I think it was a better choice than a gas anything.

I was mistaken about the $8,300 Home Depot Cub Cadet, which is a worse mower than I thought. The deck is 11 gauge, not 10. No wonder it weighs 500 pounds less than a Kubota. The Kubota's deck is 50% thicker.

I was also wrong when I said a Turf Tiger II could be had for around $13,000. The product I priced was a Tiger Cat II, which is Scag's cheapest commercial mower. It weighs about what the Cub Cadet does, and it's nothing like a ZD326. The price of a gas Turf Tiger II is around $17,000, so not far from a ZD1211.

The Tiger Cat II runs about half as long as a ZD326 on one fueling, and the same is true of the Home Depot mower.

I can see why a person with a small yard would like gas, though.

 

[Dftodd]

I just got a used Kubota ZD326. I looked at new Scags, a used Gravely, and a ton of other stuff.

I am highly skeptical of the claim that a homeowner can't justify getting a diesel. If you have more than an acre or two, and you plan to be around for decades, a diesel seems like a good idea to me.

When I was shopping, I was told a gas engine is likely to die by 750 hours, and by 2,000, you should expect it to be scrap, while a diesel should go 3,000 before anything serious happens, and then it can be rebuilt. To me, 3,000 hours are probably 25 years.

Replacing a big gas engine by yourself costs $3,500+, so maybe $10,000+ over the course of 20 years, and it costs way more to have a mechanic do it. Unless your mechanic is a saint, expect to lose the use of your mower for a month or even three. What will you do about your grass while you wait? Diesel guys will still be mowing.

My understanding is that it's cheaper to rebuild a diesel than to replace a gas engine, and diesels are made to be rebuilt more than once. I'm no expert, so maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I have been told.

Gas engines have problems because of ethanol. I know about this firsthand. It is especially true where I live, with humid weather and all kinds of temperature fluctuations. Gas mowers burn more fuel and have to be refueled more often, which is really annoying. They are more complicated, so they have something diesel mowers never have: ignition problems.

Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I figured I could get at least 2,000 hours (call it 20 years) out of the used mower I just bought, with minimal repairs and easy maintenance. It may go a lot longer, and if it doesn't, I can have the engine rebuilt. I paid $5,500, and the best Home Depot gas mower, which is built to die after a few years of mowing 5 acres, costs around $3,000 more.

Additionally, Home Depot mowers are flimsy. My deck is 7 gauge. A Home Depot mower's deck is 10 gauge. That makes a difference if you want a mower that will last you 20 years. Home Depot and Cub Cadet expect you to be back in a few years to buy a new machine.

Speaking of new machines, I priced a Scag Turf Tiger II with a gas engine, and it was around $13,000 before tax. This is a really good mower. A Kubota would be somewhere around $18,000. Over 20 years, that's a difference of ~$300 per year. Seems worth it to me to get less refueling, no engine replacements, freedom from ethanol problems, and easier repairs and maintenance. And you can sell a 20-year-old Kubota. I'll bet there aren't many 2005 gas Scags on the market.

I was startled to learn how much money mowing your own lawn can save. Where I live, it could add up to over $100K in 20 years. That makes a commercial mower look like a gift.

I've run nothing but ethanol free gas in my zero turn since I've owned it.

The only time it's had ethanol gas in it was the couple gallons the dealer put in it to test it out and run it through the paces when I purchased it and they put it together.

I've had it for almost 8 years now. I put about 50 hrs a year on it, and i service it every spring just before I start mowing.

 

[IXLR8]

In 2007 I bought a 2004 John Deere 54" Z-turn commercial mower. Still runs great, all I have done is changed oil/filter, greased it and sharpened/changed the blades. Still have the original belts on it. It is listed as weighing in at 1300lbs. Previous owner put a "comfort" seat on it, a suspension seat is now on my list. I expect it will last as long as I will. If I had to do it again, I would. It cost half of what a new mower would have cost.

 

[DK35vince]

What I have seen on the web are people saying that gas engines haven't lasted that long in practice.

I see commercial mowers getting that many hours or more out of their gas engines all the time on Lawnsite.com