dumb question about HST

[4570Man]

The 5520R you're looking at provides just that. H pattern synchronized gears on the main 1st to 4th gears, and H pattern for the range gears, A to D. Synchronized shuttle shift lever as well.

Honestly, these things are so easy to use and somehow gets such a bad reputation based on mostly myths spread all over the internet. You get much a more capable tractor too.

The only size of tractor could possibly consider being HST, would be those SCUTs, as most of them don't have independent PTO and the HST will make for it. That's about it.

I work my tractor on tight places, with loads and loads of direction changes. Just a quick clutch in as you move the shuttle lever and clutch out, it's done. Never once had feel "I wish I went with HST".

Have you used a HST tractor for at least a couple hours more than just across the dealers lot?

 

[ptsg]

Have you used a HST tractor for at least a couple hours more than just across the dealers lot?

To answer your question, no. Don't really have to. I've seen plenty of what those can do, or really can't.

Hardly any dealers stock HST tractors here, because they're so capable, right? Expats are the ones who buy the very few that get sold here and there, mostly SCUTs, like the Solis H26 and Farmtrac FT26H.

The reality is, if those were as good and capable as a tractor with gear transmission, I would see them all over the country. Yet, that doesn't happen, at all.

People need capable tractors. Having a tractor falling on its face on the slightest of hills with it's own weight, is not an option, let alone pulling a trailer. Like I said in the other post, these shuttle shift transmissions are just so nice, easy and simple to use, it's a no brainer.

 

[oldnslo]

A possible problem with HST on hills is controlling load or stopping going down hill. With HST you are decreasing the pump displacement to go slower or like gear you can idle engine down to provide engine braking - hydrostatic braking. Most HST have wheel brake pedals on same side of tractor as HST pedal so hard to use both at same time to stop.

Climbing a hill with HST on cruise will slow more than gear. How much depends on quality of HST components.

For pulling loads down the road I would probably choose gear vs HST especially if heavy loads on hills.

 

[ning]

I have a TYM T654. 24 forward and 24 reverse gears. In creep it will run at 1/4 mile an hour at 540 pto speed/RPM. I don't have a stump grinder but I think it would handle on no problem. The only time I ever run in creep is when hooking up to implements. It's a clutch tractor mostly used for plowing, discing and pulling a bat wing shredder.

1/4 mi an hour = about 4½" per second
I've never used a stump grinder but I'm guessing that's still too fast for continual motion on one.

 

[phantom309]

I am so glad that I re-joined this list and asked some questions.

I've owned my current tractors for 20+ years. My newest tractor is 40 years old. I first joined the list in 2002, but I left the list in 2005 and have remained largely clueless about HST tractors that have (it seems to me) greatly increased in popularity.

On the suggestion of a buddy, I was thinking about going HST on my (first ever!) new tractor purchase.

But after reading here (and other sites) about performance issues of HST when pressed to and beyond their rated performance capabilities, I did some more searching, and found this objective test of two identical tractors (except one was geared and the other HST):

WOW. I thought that HST performance lagged behind gear by "a few percent". While that may be true in general, it certainly doesn't appear to be the case under extreme conditions.

Very surprised that gear developed 3X the pulling force of HST.

And since the gear tractor spun (all four) tires, we don't know what the maximum pulling force would have been with better traction since the geared tractor lost traction (the old coefficient of dynamic friction < coefficient of static friction rule). With better traction, what would the pulling force difference be? 4X? 5X?

And the topper was the geared tractor besting HST by 50% when geared tractor was put in high gear.

Thanks to many on this list, I think I can answer my question about "is HST a good option for me".

Thanks again.

 

[Blue Mule]

We went from a 30 HP gear drive New Holland to a 40 HP HST New Holland. Have been using it for 3 years or more now. Here's my experience:

- HST sucks for transport (driving the tractor to a new location). It will not climb steep hills unless I'm in low or medium range on the transmission, and even in medium it'll struggle some if I have the FEL and an implement on at the same time. The gear drive tractor would pull up any hill in nearly any gear. This leads me to believe that plowing a field with a HST tractor would be a very slow operation. And it also means high range on the HST is useless in most conditions.

- Location of pedals is critical. Some brands are idiots and put the brake and HST controls on the same side. Do not buy from those brands. Some brands use a "treadle" instead of individual forward and reverse pedals. I hate those also. My New Holland has independent forward reverse on the right, and independent left/right brake on the left. That's much safer and much more "user friendly".

- Cruise control is a must. Some brands do not include cruise control standard on HST models. New Holland did, and I am thankful.

- After using the HST tractor for a few years I would never go back to gear drive. Loader work, grading work, and all work that requires slow finesse is lightyears easier and safer with HST. I absolutely love it. I don't plow fields with it, so HST is the way to go for me.

Unrelated side note: My new tractor uses a turbo to get the 40 HP rating. When at PTO RPM (mowing, etc.) the turbo engines will drink diesel fuel like they've got a bad habit. Keep that in mind. Between feeding that engine enough fuel to keep up with the airflow from the turbo, and the fact that the hydrostat consumes a lot of horsepower, you're going to need to keep diesel fuel on hand. When I'm not doing PTO work I run the engine at 1700 RPM and then it's fairly efficient.

 

[4570Man]

I am so glad that I re-joined this list and asked some questions.

I've owned my current tractors for 20+ years. My newest tractor is 40 years old. I first joined the list in 2002, but I left the list in 2005 and have remained largely clueless about HST tractors that have (it seems to me) greatly increased in popularity.

On the suggestion of a buddy, I was thinking about going HST on my (first ever!) new tractor purchase.

But after reading here (and other sites) about performance issues of HST when pressed to and beyond their rated performance capabilities, I did some more searching, and found this objective test of two identical tractors (except one was geared and the other HST):

WOW. I thought that HST performance lagged behind gear by "a few percent". While that may be true in general, it certainly doesn't appear to be the case under extreme conditions.

Very surprised that gear developed 3X the pulling force of HST.

And since the gear tractor spun (all four) tires, we don't know what the maximum pulling force would have been with better traction since the geared tractor lost traction (the old coefficient of dynamic friction &lt; coefficient of static friction rule). With better traction, what would the pulling force difference be? 4X? 5x?

And the topper was the geared tractor besting HST by 50% when geared tractor was in high gear and HST tractor was in low.

Thanks to many on this list, I think I can answer my question about "is HST a good option for me".

Thanks again.

The gear drive was tested in 5th gear out of 8 where the HST was never tested in medium range. Second the gear tractor was bucking and jerking which would dramatically skew its test. If you tested the HST in medium range and you had a tire inline of the scale to help absorb bouncing you would have nearly equal results. The gear drive will deliver more power to the ground. If the contest was dragging a plow across a field the gear drive will definitely win. If you’re thinking you’re going to chain up a 3 times bigger log and drag out of the woods with the gear drive that’s just not going to happen.

 

[phantom309]

If you tested the HST in medium range...

I've never owned (or used) an HST tractor, so I have to ask this question:

If you're going to "road" your tractor, do you start out in high range, or do you (depending on the load behind you) start in low , speed up, then shift on the fly into medium, speed up more, then shift on the fly into high?

Is that even possible?

If not, then how well a tractor starts out in high range under load seems like a reasonable question.

I'll also state the obvious that the geared tractor would have more torque in medium and low also.

 

[4570Man]

I've never owned (or used) an HST tractor, so I have to ask this question:

If you're going to "road" your tractor, do you start out in high range, or do you (depending on the load behind you) start in low , speed up, then shift on the fly into medium, speed up more, then shift on the fly into high?

Is that even possible?

If not, then how well a tractor starts out in high range under load seems like a reasonable question.

I'll also state the obvious that the geared tractor would have more torque in medium and low also.

The HST gearbox is more comparable to putting a pickup transfer case in low range. Maybe if you liked to life dangerously you could time the shift and do it moving but it’s not designed to do that. You’re supposed to bring the tractor to a complete stop and put the tractor in its desired range and start out from there. The Grand series Kubotas have a 6 speed HST vs the more standard 3 speed and you actually can shift those moving but that’s not what was tested. Sure the geared tractor will make more torque in low range, a lot more but it was sitting there spinning its wheels in 5th gear. What are you going to do with that extra torque when you’re just spinning out? If you put the HST tractor in lower range it would be spinning out right beside it. If you were pulling wagons up the road a gear trans is probably better but how many people are pulling wagons up the road with tractors that small anyway? Larger farm tractors aren’t HST for good reasons but how many small tractors are pulling plows anyway?

 

[phantom309]

What are you going to do with that extra torque when you’re just spinning out?

If I had a tractor hitched to the back, the extra weight would probably prevent tires from spinning (especially so on pavement), so the extra torque would be used to accelerate the load.

My tractors are set up to pull both bumper and gooseneck trailers from the FEL and 3-pt and I do use them for this purpose regularly.