dumb question about HST

[4570Man]

If I had a tractor hitched to the back, the extra weight would probably prevent tires from spinning (especially so on pavement), so the extra torque would be used to accelerate the load.

My tractors are set up to pull both bumper and gooseneck trailers from the FEL and 3-pt and I do use them for this purpose regularly.

You’re pulling a GN trailer with a tractor as small as those Kubotas? If you were buying a 100 hp tractor HST probably isn’t what you need but HST makes a lot of sense in small tractors.

 

[ptsg]

I've never owned (or used) an HST tractor, so I have to ask this question:

If you're going to "road" your tractor, do you start out in high range, or do you (depending on the load behind you) start in low , speed up, then shift on the fly into medium, speed up more, then shift on the fly into high?

Is that even possible?

If not, then how well a tractor starts out in high range under load seems like a reasonable question.

I'll also state the obvious that the geared tractor would have more torque in medium and low also.

With a gear transmission, you put it in High range, 1st gear and go through the main gears (1st to 4th in the case of the 5520R) just like a car.

With an HST transmission, you hope it can even start pulling the load in high range. Then have to come to a complete stop in the slightest of hills, to switch to medium range and hopefully it will hold the medium range.

Range gears, regardless of the type of the transmission, are meant to be switched with the tractor completely stopped, or you risk damaging the gears or shift collars.

Anyway, here is me pulling a load of logs with my tractor with a 12x12 transmission. Always in High range. In the first 40 seconds, I'm in 1st gear going uphill with about 15 to 20 degree slope. Then, on the main road, I just up-shift through the gears.

I recently got a bigger trailer. Can't wait to put a good load on it and go test it out.

These things are so easy and simple to use. I just can't see it making sense on giving up on so much of what a tractor has to offer.

 

[mjonesnh]

I've never owned (or used) an HST tractor, so I have to ask this question:

If you're going to "road" your tractor, do you start out in high range, or do you (depending on the load behind you) start in low , speed up, then shift on the fly into medium, speed up more, then shift on the fly into high?

Is that even possible?

If not, then how well a tractor starts out in high range under load seems like a reasonable question.

I'll also state the obvious that the geared tractor would have more torque in medium and low also.

With my New Holland no shifting on fly. Have to be stopped to change ranges. With a 600lb bushhog on 3 point I takeoff in 3rd with no problem. Pull steepest hill in that area around farm without issue. Tractor has loader on full time but I do drop the bucket when mowing.

 

[oldnslo]

Starting out pulling a load or climbing hills with load:

HST in theory will use full engine HP in any speed range. The unknown is will there be enough torque to pull the load in high range but you can typically stall the engine so the HST is not the limiting factor. You have to stop to shift ranges with HST so momentum is lost.

True gear you may be able to start load in high gear but if not you start in lower gears and then shift up. This requires getting to know the tractor since most tractors do not have synchronized transmission. You have to judge engine RPM vs ground speed to shift without the grindem till ya findem method of shifting.

Climbing hills same thing must coordinate ground speed to engine RPM.




Just an FYI: IVT or CVT transmission are modified version of HST. Deere has released an electric version of there IVT on the 410 HP tractor.

 

[Rockbadchild]

I've never owned (or used) an HST tractor, so I have to ask this question:

If you're going to "road" your tractor, do you start out in high range, or do you (depending on the load behind you) start in low , speed up, then shift on the fly into medium, speed up more, then shift on the fly into high?

Is that even possible?

If not, then how well a tractor starts out in high range under load seems like a reasonable question.

I'll also state the obvious that the geared tractor would have more torque in medium and low also.

I basically never use high range on my HST tractor unless on flat ground and not under load, medium range always until its too much, so often for moldboard plowing and pulling my disk I have to go to low range, I can get a full buckets in a fluff out pile of gravel in medium range but if its compacted I need to go on low range. That's annoying, go in the pile in med range, switch to low range, get your bucket, switch to med range ect. For mowing (brush hogg) I use medium range all the time there's no issue there.

When I got my tractor I wish it was geared for the extra PTO hp but for certain application HST is really nice like bucket work, turning around in tight spots and even mowing as you can stop on a dime but yes it certainly has its annoyance (some good point has been brought up)... I also saw my neighbor trying to fill his bucket with a geared tractor and that looked painful (I think I would've done a better job but still) you have a very good control over your speed with a HST transmission. That being said I don't think I have a bias of one vs the other I think they both have their strength and weakness but my next one will probably be a geared tractor.

 

[4570Man]

With a gear transmission, you put it in High range, 1st gear and go through the main gears (1st to 4th in the case of the 5520R) just like a car.

With an HST transmission, you hope it can even start pulling the load in high range. Then have to come to a complete stop in the slightest of hills, to switch to medium range and hopefully it will hold the medium range.

Range gears, regardless of the type of the transmission, are meant to be switched with the tractor completely stopped, or you risk damaging the gears or shift collars.

Anyway, here is me pulling a load of logs with my tractor with a 12x12 transmission. Always in High range. In the first 40 seconds, I'm in 1st gear going uphill with about 15 to 20 degree slope. Then, on the main road, I just up-shift through the gears.

I recently got a bigger trailer. Can't wait to put a good load on it and go test it out.

These things are so easy and simple to use. I just can't see it making sense on giving up on so much of what a tractor has to offer.

An American tractor that small with a 12x12 transmission is almost unheard of. That Kubota in the video with a 1-4-hi-low which is absolutely garbage to use would be much more common.

 

[ptsg]

An American tractor that small with a 12x12 transmission is almost unheard of. That Kubota in the video with a 1-4-hi-low which is absolutely garbage to use would be much more common.

I find that a bit hard to believe.

TYM: 15 series has 12x12, 20 series has 16x16. Some of the 3 digit models have 12x12 and 16x16, very few have 8x8.

Kioti: CK series and above, all have at least 12x12. Some 16x16. Their website is wrong by listing a 9x3 on nearly all models though. I have the service manuals saying otherwise.

LS: MT2 series and up, all seem to offer 12x12 at least, after a quick look.

Mahindra seems to have various 12x12 models as well.

Can't really access the Kubota USA website without VPN though, to check what they have.

All of these tractors are US models. They're available out there, starting in the compact tractor size, 25hp and up, with synchronized shuttle and main gears.

 

[Eagle1]

I find that a bit hard to believe.

TYM: 15 series has 12x12, 20 series has 16x16. Some of the 3 digit models have 12x12 and 16x16, very few have 8x8.

Kioti: CK series and above, all have at least 12x12. Some 16x16. Their website is wrong by listing a 9x3 on nearly all models though. I have the service manuals saying otherwise.

LS: MT2 series and up, all seem to offer 12x12 at least, after a quick look.

Mahindra seems to have various 12x12 models as well.

Can't really access the Kubota USA website without VPN though, to check what they have.

All of these tractors are US models. They're available out there, starting in the compact tractor size, 25hp and up, with synchronized shuttle and main gears.

And if I did a lot of towing or ground work it would be a good fit. I spend way more time moving/stacking round bales, clearing deep ditches, moving gravel into tight places, bringing firewood up to the house, processing steers and deer, etc.
Straight line power does little for me, fitting the tractor some place doing 18 point (only slightly inflated) turns to fit, is more likely to be my problem.
I like my HST when I have to fit something in a tight space and have to maneuver precisely to get there.
You know there are good points to all systems and choosing for your needs is important. My Tractors never see the road but are driven on tight ATV trails through heave forest on a regular basis. Nothing flat, it is nice to just lift a foot and stop while figuring your next move BEFORE you are sucked into that hole.

I'm all for choices so everyone can find what they want of need. Had a gear tractor and it was not nearly as useful as the HST for MY applications. My opinion only and YMMV

 

[ericm979]

I have one of each. The Deere is gear, with no synchromesh in the range or main transmission with the exception being between low range and reverse. Deere makes a big deal about that one set of synchros! Smaller and cheaper gear tractors are typically no synchromesh.

The mowing I do with the Branson is around a lot of obstacles and I'm going in reverse nearly as much as forwards. With the Deere being at a different property that's more open I can mow going forwards.

The biggest problem with the Deere's transmission is having to stop to change gears. As I mow around a field I usually can go faster on some legs of the pattern and need to go slower on others. I have to decide if the gear changes will save me enough time to be worth doing. Plus every time I have to start from a stop I'm wearing the clutch more.

Even without the stopping problem, the gears mean that I'm either going faster than I want or slower. It's rare when the trans gives me exactly the speed I would pick. There's only low 2 and 3 in the range I'd use for mowing.

When I buy another tractor it won't be a gear tractor like the Deere. Maybe I'd be ok with a power shuttle with 12 speeds in stead of the Deere's 8. But I'm leaning towards another HST, if it will be big enough to run the small hay equipment and do the other tasks it will need to do.

 

[ptsg]

And if I did a lot of towing or ground work it would be a good fit. I spend way more time moving/stacking round bales, clearing deep ditches, moving gravel into tight places, bringing firewood up to the house, processing steers and deer, etc.
Straight line power does little for me, fitting the tractor some place doing 18 point (only slightly inflated) turns to fit, is more likely to be my problem.
I like my HST when I have to fit something in a tight space and have to maneuver precisely to get there.
You know there are good points to all systems and choosing for your needs is important. My Tractors never see the road but are driven on tight ATV trails through heave forest on a regular basis. Nothing flat, it is nice to just lift a foot and stop while figuring your next move BEFORE you are sucked into that hole.

I'm all for choices so everyone can find what they want of need. Had a gear tractor and it was not nearly as useful as the HST for MY applications. My opinion only and YMMV

I work and maintain a couple of orchards, so working in tight places with loads and loads of direction changes is what I do the most. I can maneuver as precisely as I want around all of those tress and tight quarters.

Obviously, one should buy what fits their use the best. That's wasn't my point, ever.

My point was just about all the myths that get spread out towards the geared transmissions. 99% of them are completely unfounded.