Warranty issue dispute with Kubota - Advice anyone

[AtlantaViking]

Here is my complaint to Kubota - I own a L4701HST Three Months ago, my tractor engine locked up. It has 1,200 hours on it. After reviewing why the engine locked up, they reported to me the following:
The radiator water leaked from a hole in a tube. When the water leaked out, it leaked below the suction tube in the Radiator reservoir and therefor did not pull replacement water into the radiator. The radiator fluid reservoir was full. We only run the tractor sporadically so when it leaked, it apparently did so while sitting. Because the temperature sensor is in the radiator not in the oil system, the engine never reported overheating. The air in the radiator did not heat up enough to provide any warning light and the engine overheated. The only way for me to have caught the problem prior to the over-heating, would have been to open the radiator cap prior to every use and check to make sure it has not leaked out. That is an unreasonable requirement to keep an expensive tractor from overheating.
Kubota Distributor has tried to get Kubota to honor the warranty but to no avail. I paid far too much for this tractor for Kubota to have such blatant disregard for a customer. The design of the engine protection system and warnings is inadequate and I do not believe I am not at fault for this problem.

I wanted to ask the forum members if they have an opinion about the appropriateness of Kubota telling me they will not cover it as a warranty item since in their view - "There was no failure in workmanship on the part of Kubota." My opinion is that the design is the failure in workmanship. Perfect storm of situations caused the problem. Not may failure to maintain and operate the tractor properly Thoughts anyone? Thanks for any input you can provide

 

[newbury]

1. How old is it? 1,200 hrs could be a 2014 or 2020.
2. How did it get a hole in the tube? And where in the tube?

 

[TMGT]

A coolant temp sensor will not read air, it must be in contact with liquid for an adequate reading. Just about every water cooled engine uses this system, including cars, tractors, heavy equipment etc.

I would have to side with the manufacturer, its unfortunate this happened to you but it sounds like the system was functional and you missed the leak.

If it was a large leak I would imagine you have seen/smelled it, if it was a small leak it should have given you enough time to catch the low level.

Ultimately its the operators responsibility to do regular maintenance checks including fluid levels and leaks.

It is a pretty rough situation to have happen but it doesn't sound like it was caused by something Kubota did.

 

[RickB]

A coolant temp sensor will not read air, it must be in contact with liquid for an adequate reading. Just about every water cooled engine uses this system, including cars, tractors, heavy equipment etc.

I would have to side with the manufacturer, its unfortunate this happened to you but it sounds like the system was functional and you missed the leak.

If it was a large leak I would imagine you have seen/smelled it, if it was a small leak it should have given you enough time to catch the low level.

Ultimately its the operators responsibility to do regular maintenance checks including fluid levels and leaks.

It is a pretty rough situation to have happen but it doesn't sound like it was caused by something Kubota did.

I agree and would add that the engine coolant temperature sender is located in the engine, not the radiator.
The failure was caused by physical damage, not by a part failure. If you have physical damage insurance on the tractor, a claim should be pursued.

 

[AtlantaViking]

1. How old is it? 1,200 hrs could be a 2014 or 2020.
2. How did it get a hole in the tube? And where in the tube?

1. I have owned it for two years - Bought it new
2. Dealer says it was in a small tube beneath the engine. Not sure what the tube function is. I assume some sort of return or sensing tube. No idea how it was caused. Could have been a stick hitting it.

Thanks

 

[AtlantaViking]

A coolant temp sensor will not read air, it must be in contact with liquid for an adequate reading. Just about every water cooled engine uses this system, including cars, tractors, heavy equipment etc.

I would have to side with the manufacturer, its unfortunate this happened to you but it sounds like the system was functional and you missed the leak.

If it was a large leak I would imagine you have seen/smelled it, if it was a small leak it should have given you enough time to catch the low level.

Ultimately its the operators responsibility to do regular maintenance checks including fluid levels and leaks.

It is a pretty rough situation to have happen but it doesn't sound like it was caused by something Kubota did.

I do not disagree with you completely. I also understand that most engines work on this premise. However, I do not know a single person that opens their hood on a car or tractor and checks the radiator for fluid prior to operating. If the fluid all leaked out while parked, how would anyone know. We always checked fluids, oil, radiator reservoir etc regularly. No obvious sign of a problem

 

[TMGT]

I do not disagree with you completely. I also understand that most engines work on this premise. However, I do not know a single person that opens their hood on a car or tractor and checks the radiator for fluid prior to operating. If the fluid all leaked out while parked, how would anyone know. We always checked fluids, oil, radiator reservoir etc regularly. No obvious sign of a problem

What people do what what they are supposed to do are 2 different things. By neglecting to check fluids regularly you assume the risk associated with that.

And sometimes things happen that are out of your control, but that doesn't necessarily them someone else's fault. If the tube failed prematurely I could see Kubota having some responsibility, but it sounds like this was due to damage.

I'm sure you could idiot proof equipment so that it could detect any problem you could think of, but the additional cost and complexity would be ridiculous and unnecessary for the majority.

 

[moship]

Hire yourself a lawyer and to determine what recourse you have in your state.

How long is the repair list and estimated cost?

You might have some case if the tube failed due to manufacturing or installation neglect. Which tube failed?

 

[shooterdon]

I side with AV. Looks like a design fault to me.

I would want to see the "tube" that failed, how it failed, and how difficult it would have been for the manufacturer to protect it. Tractors will ride over sticks...design accordingly. No one else has ever reported such a tube failure that I am aware of ?WHY?

This is not a "cheap" LS like I have, but a top of the line (with a price to match) tractor. It is TOTALLY unreasonable to need to check the level of the coolant every time you use the tractor by opening the rad cap. I look a the level in the overflow tank.

 

[The Fred]

It's your own fault for not checking the radiator, no different than checking the oil. Read your owner's manual.

 

[mike48130]

What does the owners manual tell you to do? If it says to check the overflow bottle not the radiator you might have a case. The owners manual is technically a legal document telling you how to use and maintain your machine properly, so if you followed it, then you need to point that out to them. If they are telling you that you needed to do something that was not in the manual, then how would you know to do that? The best way to make your case is to show you did exactly what they told you to do.

It sounds like anyone with a Kubota needs to move their temp sensor to the engine not the radiator. Never seen one on a radiator.

 

[RickB]

It sounds like anyone with a Kubota needs to move their temp sensor to the engine not the radiator. Never seen one on a radiator.

The sensor is not in the radiator.
If the cooling system is compromised by a hole in a tube or hose caused by a foreign object the system cannot create negative pressure and draw coolant from the tank to the radiator. Even if it could, the pint of coolant would quickly join the rest of the contents of the system on the ground.
Any warranty claim related to a foreign object puncturing a cooling system component is a non-starter.

 

[747driver]

Where is the tube that leaked located ? Was it damaged from use or a manufacture defect ? I don't always take off the radiator cap to check for fluid, but always check the overflow tank. I would think you should have noticed fluid on the ground or the smell of leaking anti-freeze. I would be more inclined to know why that tube leaked then go from there. That is the problem.

 

[sd455dan]

What does the owners manual tell you to do? If it says to check the overflow bottle not the radiator you might have a case. The owners manual is technically a legal document telling you how to use and maintain your machine properly, so if you followed it, then you need to point that out to them.

If they are telling you that you needed to do something that was not in the manual, then how would you know to do that? The best way to make your case is to show you did exactly what they told you to do.


^^^ Good point

Also agree with Rick -if there is damage from a stick or similar , it is a non starter


Radiator coolant level senders are Not real common as a factory feature

But some auto manufacturers did include a Radiator water level sender unit.

I am sure it saved a few engines from damage.

Mazda cars equipped with Rotary engines all had this sender in the radiator afaik




I have considered adding a bung to the radiator and installing 1

not to pricey at around $60 If anyone wants to add 1

https://www.ebay.com/p/1711255745?iid=230374507911


Sorry this happened to the OP and I realize anyone that buys a New tractor would think it is crazy to modify a new radiator and void the manufacturers warranty.

Just wanted to point out that there is a sender available for this situation /scenario

 

[tookielee]

Something seems amiss - Per the service manual for that tractor,
coolant temp sensor is on side of block - OP should have gotten
high gauge / alarms

 

[mike48130]

Something seems amiss - Per the service manual for that tractor,
coolant temp sensor is on side of block - OP should have gotten
high gauge / alarms
View attachment 643988

That would make sense.

 

[sd455dan]

Something seems amiss - Per the service manual for that tractor,
coolant temp sensor is on side of block - OP should have gotten
high gauge / alarms
View attachment 643988

Sorry, that is not always true.

Once the coolant level in the block/head begins to drop the sender is just exposed to air or vacuum and since air does not transfer heat near as well/fast as a liquid does it is very possible for a gauge to stay in the cold or normal range even though the engine is overheating.

In addition This has caused a few engines (not pointing at Kubota here) to overheat the head in the area of the exhaust valve seat allowing it ( pressed in seat ) to drop and result in destruction of the engine.

 

[sea2summit]

A coolant temp sensor will not read air, it must be in contact with liquid for an adequate reading. Just about every water cooled engine uses this system, including cars, tractors, heavy equipment etc.

I would have to side with the manufacturer, its unfortunate this happened to you but it sounds like the system was functional and you missed the leak.

If it was a large leak I would imagine you have seen/smelled it, if it was a small leak it should have given you enough time to catch the low level.

Ultimately its the operators responsibility to do regular maintenance checks including fluid levels and leaks.

It is a pretty rough situation to have happen but it doesn't sound like it was caused by something Kubota did.

I'm going to have to agree.

 

[dodge man]

Is it fair that they are denying warranty? Probably not but I would say they are not obligated for your problem unless you can prove what ever caused the leak was a defect.

 

[CobyRupert]

What does the owners manual tell you to do? If it says to check the overflow bottle not the radiator you might have a case. The owners manual is technically a legal document telling you how to use and maintain your machine properly, so if you followed it, then you need to point that out to them. If they are telling you that you needed to do something that was not in the manual, then how would you know to do that? The best way to make your case is to show you did exactly what they told you to do.

It sounds like anyone with a Kubota needs to move their temp sensor to the engine not the radiator. Never seen one on a radiator.

I think you're on to something.

The manual I found on line, under the "Daily Check" section, says: :

1. Check to see that the coolant level is between the
"FULL" and "LOW" marks of recovery tank.

2. When the coolant level drops due to evaporation, add
soft water only up to the full level.
In case of leakage, add anti-freeze and soft water in
the specified mixing ratio up to the full level.
(See "Flushing Cooling System and Changing
Coolant" in "EVERY 2 YEARS" in "PERIODIC
SERVICE" section.)

3. When the coolant level is lower than "LOW" mark of
recovery tank, remove the radiator cap and check to
see that the coolant level is just below the port. If level
is low, add coolant.