1/2 ton pickup opinions???

[RayH]

Acctually i beleive the new versions the spark plugs are reversed from what the original HEMIS were? correct? .

I had to look this up. I found something interesting about the new Hemi. It has two spark plugs per cylinder (although they are still located in the top center of the head just like the old Hemis) One plug apparently fires later than the other to scavenge whatever gases havent burnt.

 

[RollingsFarms]

"Hemi" is simply the name Chrysler gave the hemispherical head engines back in the 60s and 70s. It was based on the hemispherical shape of the combustion chamber. The modern 5.7 Hemi has the same combustion chamber shape, so it is a true Hemi by definition, and so are several Porsche, Mitsubishi, VW, Ford, ect engines, they just dont market them as Hemis. So the one thing that makes it a "Hemi" it does actually have in common with the older "Hemis".
Hemis have traditionally had two large valves instead of four smaller ones, old or new.
You are correct in that comparing the old and new is like comparing apples and oranges. Im just saying that the new hemi is just as much a hemi as the older ones by definition.

thanks for setting me straight on that. i new it was one or the other, i just had it backwards. i wasnt aware that the hemispherical design was so widely used as you stated. especially in 4cyl's. wonder why Dodge went with the 360 for so long and then decided to go back to this? i still much prefer the Vortec design GM uses with its vortex technology inside the combustion chamber over the current HEMI. i have all the hp and tq i need without suffering from poor gas mileage.

 

[RayH]

thanks for setting me straight on that. i new it was one or the other, i just had it backwards. i wasnt aware that the hemispherical design was so widely used as you stated. especially in 4cyl's. wonder why Dodge went with the 360 for so long and then decided to go back to this? i still much prefer the Vortec design GM uses with its vortex technology inside the combustion chamber over the current HEMI. i have all the hp and tq i need without suffering from poor gas mileage.

Its expensive to produce Hemi heads because of the shape of the chambers and placement of the valves. Each cylinder has a valve that is actually placed so that the stem and spring faces outboard of the cylinder head so controlling that outer valve requires some tight routing of the rods. Thats also why you wont see any 4 valve Hemis in production, its just too complicated to manufacturer. The Hemis back in the day were so awesome compared to other V8s because there design allowed larger valves and no one was making a 4 valve per cylinder engine at that time.

 

[RollingsFarms]

And the point? Chevy had major issues of the same problem in the 80's. Had a friend whose Camaro had to be repainted twice. Another friend had a Z71 4x4 1/2 ton with same issue early 90's.

I'm not defending Dodge, but pointing out they are not the only one.

FWIW, the only blemish in the factory paint of my '01 Ram, is on the right rear quarter where a trailer jackknifed. Mechanically, it has been pretty much perfect.

i remember reading your post about late model Chevrolet trucks with rust problems and i have to admit i was suprised because i have not come accross a single model from 95-99 with this problem. the point i was trying to make though was that i just didn't understand why his truck would have rock chips down to the bare metal and mine didnt. figured it was another paint flaw. not saying my truck is better then his, but i can say that mine has not seen 1/10 of the problems that his has had and currently has. i'm not bashing Dodge by any means. i would have a 2500 with the Cummins TOMORROW if Dodge could build a more reliable transmission and i had the money. to me the Cummins is one of the best, if not THE best diesel engines ever put into a truck. i'm just not a fan of Dodge quality and i guess my perception of their trucks(not all of their vehicles) has been tainted dude to the problems my friend has had. although i will give him credit, he wont admit to any of the problems and will buy another Dodge. he's very loyal to them.

 

[RollingsFarms]

I wanted to share this with the people that have been reading or have posted in this thread. this might also help out the original poster in his decision. I found this on a consumer report type forum. (I need to search again to find the address)....


"This discussion is actually pretty interesting, considering how many flatlanders purchase pickups, drive them on the interstate and to soccer practice, and begin to think they can make a truck comparison. Many folks make a decision after driving one pickup, namely their own. I've lived in some very diverse places in the U.S., and here are my observations on late model pickups.

In Southern California and South Texas, guys buy 2 wheel drive Ford 1/2 tons for their wives because they think they want a pickup, and the price is right. The wife doesn't mind if the 4.6 liter has just enough torque to move it off of a standing start, or just enough traction to stay on wet pavement. The price is right, and Mommy gets a pickup. Best selling? Uh... whatever.

Here in northern Maine it's a different story, where extreme weather, deep-woods utility use, plow duty, tow duty, winch duty, overloaded beds, farm use, off-road use, and yes, highway travel is the norm, one pickup design is dominant on the market, the Chevy Silverado/GMC Sierra pair with the Gen III V8.

It isn't driven for the name, but for what it can do, and what it does.

One guy I know, a crew chief for a major logging company, drove a 2002 Ford Super Duty 4x4 assigned to him for work, 40 miles into the woods each way 6 days a week, loaded. Not only is he forced to apologize for driving a Ford, his boss had to apologize to HIM that the tranny cooked out at 40K miles and he was stuck in the woods. There were so many problems with actually USING the Ford "Super Duty" pickup they replaced them all. All of them. Every one.

I'm not even going to go into the also-ran category of 1/2 ton only Nissans and Toyotas. Having owned a 2002 Ford F-250 4x4 with the disturbingly underpowered 5.4 (sold that 'bargain' in a hurry after having looked in the trans pan after 20,000 miles-scary), driven a '04 Dodge Ram Hemi for work at length in all weather and surfaces (what a tinny, front-heavy, loud piece of crap), and going home to my '03 Silverado x-cab Z-71 with the 5.3 Gen III V8, it's good to be home.

It's all about the drivetrain at GM. Power? Tons of it. Torque? From off-idle all the way to the top. Economy? 15 in the woods, 19 on the interstate, mostly loaded. Reliability? The only warranty repair after 50,000 miles was a 4x4 wire I must have hung up working in my woodlot. Comfortable, safe, quiet,... the list goes on. That a 7 year old GM truck design can outsell (combined GMC and Chevy numbers) a fresh Ford F-150 design and a burly-looking but horribly engineered Dodge design is a testament to it's quality and market dominance.

I'll bet the 2007 Silverado/Sierra will be even better, a evolution of a great pickup, with wholly unnecessary but welcome engine improvements.

In a nutshell, don't let some "Weekend Warrior" flatlander spout off about working trucks he knows nothing about. He might be late to his corporate sales meeting."

 

[Diamondpilot]

The Fords and Dodges out sell the Gm's by far in the midwest. The Fords outsell them both combined. I am sure that a lot of that has to do with the Fords great lease and financing deals. My neighbor was a die hard Gm guy but now drives a Ford because the cost. The sticker might be about the same but Ford is aggressive with the financing.

My uncle was a Gm guy until 10 years ago. He lost his job with a major company and used his military training and school to take up automotive repair. After completing school he bought a 10 bay service garage off a guy who was retiring. After working on all makes and models he will only by Fords or imports.

Chris

 

[RollingsFarms]

The Fords and Dodges out sell the Gm's by far in the midwest. The Fords outsell them both combined. I am sure that a lot of that has to do with the Fords great lease and financing deals. My neighbor was a die hard Gm guy but now drives a Ford because the cost. The sticker might be about the same but Ford is aggressive with the financing.

My uncle was a Gm guy until 10 years ago. He lost his job with a major company and used his military training and school to take up automotive repair. After completing school he bought a 10 bay service garage off a guy who was retiring. After working on all makes and models he will only by Fords or imports.
Chris

there's a guy about 5 miles down the road from me that I use for personal mechanic work(he only does this for people he knows personally, sort of like a hobby you could say). he will only drive Chevrolet/GMC's. knows them inside and out, all makes and models. He was on the pit crew for Richard Childress back in the mid 80's and early 90's. he worked in the engine shop building the engines for the Winston Cup cars so I trust him fully working on anything of mine(except diesel since he's not familiar with diesel engines.)

 

[cp1969]

i can see how my post may have confused you. the HEMIS of the 60-70's and the one Dodge is currently using are like night and day. Acctually i beleive the new versions the spark plugs are reversed from what the original HEMIS were? correct? also, dont the new HEMIS only have two valves per cylinder rather then 4? what i was basically trying to get at was anyone that thinks the HEMI of today is ANYTHING like the original versions, have been mistaken. the only thing i can see that is similar between the two is the name. the old motors would generate close to 600hp on ONE carb. and acctually came from the factory with 2, or could come from the factory with 2....not exactly sure. this motor doesnt even come close to making the hp numbers and tourqe that the original design would make.

For the question in bold -- no, not correct. The old Hemi's had one spark plug in the center of the combustion chamber. How could you 'reverse' that?

Yes, the new Hemi's have two valves per cylinder. So did the old ones. How many does the Chevy have?

No old Hemi ever made close to 600 hp on one carburetor, on gas. The 426 was 'rated' at 425 with two four barrel carbs. It made more than 425 but the rating system was different back then; SAE gross vs. SAE net today.

No, the new Hemi doesn't come close to the hp and torque of the old design...it exceeds them. You would have to compare the truck Hemi to the truck Hemi of old, the 354.

 

[JoeinTX]

Pickups are like women....it's all about taste and previous experience.


I've had or driven all of the Big 3 in the last few years: owned 3 Dodges ('00, '02, '04) and now have an '06 Ford.

I was not a Ford man by any means (had an '89 model that was a mechanical black hole) but when my GF bought hers last year it really impressed me.....to the point I had to have one myself It is the nicest, most comfortable vehicle I've ever owned. It has the 4.6l, but, in all honesty it does a nice job hauling around the 5600+lb crewcab and mileage is okay. On our recent trip to New Mexico it got around 18mpg (on fresh oil, filters, proper tire pressure) and we were on some of the 75-80mph highways in west Texas a good deal of the time so I was pretty happy with that.

The Dodges were all very satisfactory and the Hemi in my '04 was a nice motor. I had the smaller 4.7l as well but it did leave just a little to be desired. But, I spent exactly $.00 in 8 years of owning Dodges on any repairs other than routine maintenance so I figure that's as good as it gets and I'd own another Dodge anytime.

My dad has had a couple of recent model Chevy 1500s w/5.3l but he doesn't like them as much as the old 350 which was a supreme motor. I have driven his a few times and it doesn't seem to have quite the same gumption as the Hemi or the older Vortec 350. But, no doubt that they are wonderful driving vehicles.

And here's where the "taste" part really comes to play:

"I'll bet the 2007 Silverado/Sierra will be even better, a evolution of a great pickup, with wholly unnecessary but welcome engine improvements..."

Woooofff.....Man, I have to say that GM did a real number with their newest model. I thought the Tundra was stretching the boundaries of truck styling until the new GMs came out and I stood corrected. Overdone, odd fender flares....a sagging, "stupid grin" looking front end that just looks wrong, and weird overhanging fender wells that make it look like someone forgot to move a decimal point somewhere. Yeesh, the GMCs look a little better and the Suburbans/Tahoes look real good..........but the Silvys are a rolling assault to the visual senses that I simply can't fathom any reason for. Did GM think "ugly means tough" and thus set out to make the ugliest pickup on the American highway? Hey, under the sheetmetal they may be a fine mechanical example, but, ugh....

 

[tazz01]

I own a 2006 chevy 1500,V6 (4.3),automatic trans. I used my truck to haul my boat,my 5x10 utility trailer with Honda fourweeler or my Kubota L2800,FEL and box blade on my 16 foot,7000 lbs trailer.Pulls any of these with out any problems.

 

[Egon]

The original posters needs seem to have gone by the way but this thread is getting kinda funny!!

Maybe someone could tell me the difference between a Hemi, a wedge, a pentroof, a sorta inclined tub and a good old Flathead???

Wonder where the gasoline octane rating comes in, what valve trains are best and are aluminum heads better than cast iron.

But then again all this trivia was all hashed out long before most of us were born!!

 

[RayH]

The original posters needs seem to have gone by the way but this thread is getting kinda funny!!

Maybe someone could tell me the difference between a Hemi, a wedge, a pentroof, a sorta inclined tub and a good old Flathead???

Wonder where the gasoline octane rating comes in, what valve trains are best and are aluminum heads better than cast iron.

But then again all this trivia was all hashed out long before most of us were born!!

I dont mind, Ive gotten some good info out of this thread. Im actually surprised it went six pages.
Hemis have been explained, a flathead is not an overhead valve engine, its similar to a Briggs and Stratton, no rockers. Im not sure what makes a Wedge a wedge, I think its just a name someone at Chrysler made up. Ive never heard of a pentroof or inclined tub, I think its something YOU made up High octane burns slower than low, dual overhead cams, not in a truck and I think I'll wait for Hyundai to make a truck since no one has said anything bad about them.

 

[JoeinTX]

"..I think I'll wait for Hyundia to make a truck since no one has said anything bad about them."


Just wait, they probably will. They've got plants in the U.S. and the market is there and they've got money to spend.

Hey, everyone thought "baloney" when Nissan and Toyota did this but they're making out alright and moving up. Rumour is that Toyota is planning 3/4, 1 ton, and severe duty versions of the Tundra with Hino or Caterpillar engines. How 'bout that?

I think a lot of old allegiances will shift in the years to come.

 

[Spiveyman]

Too bad I missed the beginning of this thread, but it sounded like the guy was going with a Ford. My 2 cents probably don't count because I'm a Ford man through and through, my dad was, his dad was, and his dad had a horse named Ford. (Not really, but if they'd had trucks back then it would have been a Ford.) Anyway, I have a few beefs about Ford none-the-less. They used plastic hubs in their 4X4. I have replaced several hubs in my younger years muddin' in my Fords. I've replaced the transmission in the last three Ford 4X4's I've owned - however, I lay most of that to operator error (towing with OD on, doing stupid stuff in mud). Then I got married and all that foolishness stopped (as far as she knows).

Today I drive a 2001 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 5.8L V8 (black of course). I use it to haul cattle, dad and Papaw have 2004 F-150's (black of course). There is some really good engineering in the newer ones, most have talked about engines and stuff, but one big improvement is the brakes. The rotors are much larger diameter on the newer ones, feels a whole lot better when bringing those cattle to a hault. All in all, the "modern" F-150 is as reliable as you could ask for, and has plenty of power for moderate towing. My buddy has been through 3 Dodges since I bought my Ford and he's not been happy with any of them. From 1500 to 2500 to 3500 dually.

I've got 90K on this one and I'm counting the days until this thing dies so that I can get a 450!!! But I fear this old truck will last me for many more years now that I'm married and use it responsibly.

Here's some shots of my truck clean, dirty, and hanging out behind the house on my farm...

... oh by the way, tires, not that it's critical, but those are GoodYear MTR's on there, and they are awesome. A bit loud on the road, but get them off road and they won't disappoint

 

[RayH]

Today I drive a 2001 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 5.8L V8 (black of course). I use it to haul cattle, dad and Papaw have 2004 F-150's (black of course).

Are you mennonite?

 

[JoeinTX]

"Are you Mennonite?..."

Well, duh, obviously he is. That's we he's driving a driving a modern vehicle and using a modern computer to post on the modern internet and using a modern camera to "capture spirits" for posting on this modern forum.

Yes, he's a Mennonite. Clear as a bell and why do you even have to ask that question it's so obvious. Right now, he's already blown out the candles and fired up the bed warmer and snoozing away in his feather bed until the rooster wakes him at 4am. Better ask around 5pm tomorrow afternoon before supper so that he can write back via his windmill powered computer and secret internet connection that he uses for speaking with the "English" when he's feeling particularly naughty....

 

[RollingsFarms]

For the question in bold -- no, not correct. The old Hemi's had one spark plug in the center of the combustion chamber. How could you 'reverse' that?

Yes, the new Hemi's have two valves per cylinder. So did the old ones. How many does the Chevy have?

No old Hemi ever made close to 600 hp on one carburetor, on gas. The 426 was 'rated' at 425 with two four barrel carbs. It made more than 425 but the rating system was different back then; SAE gross vs. SAE net today.

No, the new Hemi doesn't come close to the hp and torque of the old design...it exceeds them. You would have to compare the truck Hemi to the truck Hemi of old, the 354.

please explain to me how 345 hp is greater then 425 hp? is that the new math or something? you are mistaken because if you followed NASCAR back in the 60's and 70's you would find that richard petty ran a 426 hemi and it made close to 800 hp with two carbs so nascar made the hemis run only one carb and that puched the hp numbers back significantly. the chevy motors that you insist on putting down make plenty of hp while maintaining a respectable gas milage average using their vortex design. i can look it up for you and give you the diagram if youd like.

 

[RayH]

"Are you Mennonite?..."

Well, duh, obviously he is. That's we he's driving a driving a modern vehicle and using a modern computer to post on the modern internet and using a modern camera to "capture spirits" for posting on this modern forum.

Yes, he's a Mennonite. Clear as a bell and why do you even have to ask that question it's so obvious. Right now, he's already blown out the candles and fired up the bed warmer and snoozing away in his feather bed until the rooster wakes him at 4am. Better ask around 5pm tomorrow afternoon before supper so that he can write back via his windmill powered computer and secret internet connection that he uses for speaking with the "English" when he's feeling particularly naughty....

I was joking about his Black vehicles.
Anyways, while I doubt it, it's entirely possible he is Mennonite. Some Mennonite groups do use some modern conveniences (and they drive black vehicles). I think its the Amish you are thinking about that dont use automobiles and modern conveniences

 

[travis potter]

I will keep this going. Driven Fords for 40 years. Had 02 F150 loved it. Now have 05 150 w/5.4 towing Pkg worst truckI,ve ever owned. I pill a 2500# trailer 90% of the time. New front brakes 12,000 miles new rear brakes 28,000 miles. Throtle is by wire it wont spin the wheels just a smoth take off with the trailer but will pull it at 100mph when passing. In a quick stop you can hit the gas and brake at the same time at least 1 time a day.super cab rear door handle sticks out and I hit it a lot and open the rear door when I get out of the front seat. Trailer hook up is too far under the bumper have to get down to hook up the trailer in the mud.if you just glance at the speedo the hand point below the number 50 is 45. sure wish I had my 02 back. They moved the ost and compus down to the lower rt of dash cant,t read now with out straing. and other gripe problems. It<s late hope this makes some since.

 

[RayH]

I will keep this going. Driven Fords for 40 years.

Speaking of black trucks, 40 years???
you bought your first ford when you could get it in any color as long as it was black, right?