110V off 220V circuit

   / 110V off 220V circuit #1  

dieselscout80

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Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
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Location
South Carolina
Tractor
New Holland TC45DA
I need to temporarily pull 110Vac off a 220Vac circuit for lights. I know that 220Vac with three total wires is two 110Vac legs and a ground. I think I can attach the black from the 110Vac to one of the 220Vac legs to get 110V, but what does the neutral (white wire) of the 110Vac circuit attach to?

Is this safe to do for lights?
 
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   / 110V off 220V circuit #2  
There should be 3 wires for 220vac

black hot 1
red hot 2
white neutral
(maybe green for grounD)

If you connect to either black or red, and use white as neutral you will be OK

white to silver screw
black OR red to brass screw
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #3  
No. You can only split a 220 circuit into two if it has a neutral. The ground is there for safety and can't be used as a conductor. You could wire up a pair of lights in series so they will run off 220V.

Edit: The original poster sounds like he has a 220 only circuit like a baseboard heater.
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit
  • Thread Starter
#4  
No. You can only split a 220 circuit into two if it has a neutral. The ground is there for safety and can't be used as a conductor. You could wire up a pair of lights in series so they will run off 220V.

Edit: The original poster sounds like he has a 220 only circuit like a baseboard heater.

Its a window AC unit plug.

Ok it sounds like that it is NOT possible to due unless the 220Vac circuit has four wires (black, red, green and white{neutrual}) and mine doesn't.

Thanks
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #6  
If there is not anything else on the circuit (and there shouldn't be) you could remove the wires from the double pole breaker in the electrical panel and wire one of them to a single pole breaker and the other to neutral. The circuit would now be 110V.

I will caution you that if you are not experienced working in an electrical panel, please hire an electrician.
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #7  
If the temporary light that you are using has two prongs on the cord end then you do not need a grounded outlet and using one of the hot leads and the neutral for your outlet would be just fine. I would recommend that you locate an ungrounded outlet for this temporary set up then there is no confusion as to whether or not the outlet is grounded and should only be used with ungrounded appliances (i.e. floor lamp,table lamp,double insulated tools). Yes you can still buy this type of receptacle even at home Depot.
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit
  • Thread Starter
#8  
If the temporary light that you are using has two prongs on the cord end then you do not need a grounded outlet and using one of the hot leads and the neutral for your outlet would be just fine. I would recommend that you locate an ungrounded outlet for this temporary set up then there is no confusion as to whether or not the outlet is grounded and should only be used with ungrounded appliances (i.e. floor lamp,table lamp,double insulated tools). Yes you can still buy this type of receptacle even at home Depot.

I don't follow?? Where would the neutral hook to on the 220Vac circuit?
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #9  
No. You can only split a 220 circuit into two if it has a neutral. The ground is there for safety and can't be used as a conductor.

Yep, if there is no (white) neutral wire, don't pass go. :thumbsup:

Now, as kfu4da said, there is a good possibility of rewiring it temporarily for 115 vac., but he better be sure how everything is connected, and what the wires are connected to, before doing that.
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Yep, if there is no (white) neutral wire, don't pass go. :thumbsup:

Now, as kfu4da said, there is a good possibility of rewiring it temporarily for 115 vac., but he better be sure how everything is connected, and what the wires are connected to, before doing that.

Thats what I thought.
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #11  
I have attached a four plug box next to my 220v plug for my air compressor. I ran red (using the right gauge ) to one plug and black to the other plug. I wired the white from the red plug to the black plug and then the black plug took the white wire from the 220v line. There should be enough terminals to do this. (This is using 10 gauge 4 wire cable red is hot phase, black is hot phase, white is neutral, green is ground) White, green and bare copper all get grounded at the panel (have seen picture of extension cable using white as hot phase?!!!). This was my do it yourself solution, like others have said to be safe check with a local electrician.

There might be an off the shelf plug solution, you might want to google.
 
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   / 110V off 220V circuit #12  
UNION, Maine Police released a few more details Monday about the electrocution of a 21-year-old Jefferson man who died Saturday.

Steven Crossley, who worked off and on for Winter Winds Farms in Union, was installing a fan in a barn there at around 3 p.m. Saturday when the accident occurred, according to the Knox County Sheriff痴 Office.

的t appears that Crossley had incorrectly wired a new plug (power cord) to a barn fan exhaust motor. Upon arriving on scene, [it was] determined that the outlet source that was used to power the exhaust fan via extension cord, was in fact live and had current flowing through it, Sheriff Donna Dennison said in an email Monday.

A farmhand found Crossley and called police, but the man was pronounced dead on scene

If you don't know what you are doing.. Don't do it..
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #13  
Help me out here. When I lok at my circuit box I see white black and copper for a 110 circuit. black is to the breaker, but white and copper are on the ground/neutral tree. 220 has red and black to the breaker and the copper to the ground neutral tree.

Now I know I am not using proper terms so I hope you can get what I am getting at... If copper and white go to the same place In 110 why do I need both? Why would taking the two hot legs of a 220 and splitting them to 110 using just the ground wire be wrong. My gut is telling me it has something to do with 110 ground plug 3prong

Finally, if the issue is fixable by separating ground / neutral when going from 220 to 110 in a 3wire design. Could you just put a ground rod next to the box and connect ground there.

These questions come from us having an abandoned 220 line for a well pump at least 200 feet from the breaker that we are considering turning into 110

Carl
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #15  
A couple of things:

Some of the questions in this thread show zero understanding of household wiring and the safety practices that go into it. As such, you REALLY shouldn't be messing with it. You are about to make the most basic mistakes and potentially disable all the safety systems that you currently have.

The white (neutral) and bare (ground) coming together to the same terminal strip in your electric box is normal and correct, but note that the main breaker box is the ONLY place where the two are allowed to come together. You can't join them anywhere else in the house or outbuildings. As a side note, people installing generators almost always mess this up.

A 220V circuit is either split phase, or single phase. In a split phase circuit, there are 4 wires: Line 1 (black), line 2 (red), neutral (white), and ground (bare or green). From a split phase circuit you can extract 220V between L1 and L2, and you can extract 110V between L1 and N or between L2 and N. In a single phase circuit there are 3 wires: Line 1 (black), line 2 (white), and ground (bare or green). In a single phase circuit you cannot extract 110V because there is no neutral. Also, unlike a 110V circuit, the white wire is NOT neutral. It is HOT and can knock you on your butt or kill you, just like the black wire.

As to the original poster's question, nobody asked but it sounds like you have a single phase circuit. If that's the case, you cannot get 110V by rewiring the outlet. You can, however, rewire back at the electric box to make it a 110V circuit (changing the outlet appropriately as well). You would need a new single pole breaker (the 220V circuit will be on a 2 pole breaker). The white wire will become neutral and be wired to the terminal strip with most of the other white wires, and the black will go to the single terminal on the new breaker. You will also probably end up with an open slot in your breaker panel which needs to be plugged with an appropriate filler plate.

Someone else suggested using the ground as a neutral - after all, they are wired to the same terminal strip in the breaker box, right? I don't mean to be harsh, but this is the most basic mistake make by someone who knows nothing about household wiring. The ground wire should never under any normal operating condition be carrying current, which it will be doing if you use it as the neutral, or tie it to the neutral anywhere other than a single point at the main breaker panel (remember that rule from the first point). The only time the ground carries current is when there is a fault. It's there solely for protection.

Hope this helps, and stay safe. It's not just you, but also the unsuspecting guy who comes along after you expecting things to be wired properly only to find out the hard way that they are not.
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #16  
The copper is a safety and is wired to all parts metal along the way to carry away current from a short. If you wire it up as neutral, it will be hot when you have a load turned on. Also a ground is not sized the same as the hot and neutral conductors.

In some cases you can use a local ground rod but not in your case.

The simple answer is to mark one of the 220 hot leads as white/neutral with white electrical tape and move that wire from the breaker to the neutral bus bar giving 120 V.

Help me out here. When I lok at my circuit box I see white black and copper for a 110 circuit. black is to the breaker, but white and copper are on the ground/neutral tree. 220 has red and black to the breaker and the copper to the ground neutral tree.

Now I know I am not using proper terms so I hope you can get what I am getting at... If copper and white go to the same place In 110 why do I need both? Why would taking the two hot legs of a 220 and splitting them to 110 using just the ground wire be wrong. My gut is telling me it has something to do with 110 ground plug 3prong

Finally, if the issue is fixable by separating ground / neutral when going from 220 to 110 in a 3wire design. Could you just put a ground rod next to the box and connect ground there.

These questions come from us having an abandoned 220 line for a well pump at least 200 feet from the breaker that we are considering turning into 110

Carl
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #17  
For a permanent setup install a small panel at the 220 line termination. Then you can have both 220 and 110 with the proper breakers for your use.


Hire an Electrician! Do it by Code.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #18  
For a permanent setup install a small panel at the 220 line termination. Then you can have both 220 and 110 with the proper breakers for your use.


Hire an Electrician! Do it by Code.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

If there is no white wire he cannot do this!
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #19  
If there is no white wire he cannot do this!/QUOTE]

That is why there is a note to follow code and hire an electrician.:thumbsup:
 
   / 110V off 220V circuit #20  
So I am not trying to be argumentative, but what no one has answered is why. I know there is a good reason but I have yet to understand it.

In the box white and copper. (neutral and ground) are tied to the same spot. Yes there are two different terminal strips but the both are attached to the wire leading to the grounding rod.

So if there is a fault with an incorrect 2 wire 110 hookup(meaning neutral and ground on the same wire) what is the danger. If hot where to contact neutral the current would still ind up at the ground in the box.

All the best

Carl
 

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