16-17LA Loaders

[paccorti]

Has anyone seen the 16-17LA parts diagram? Part #21 is labeled as a "spacer". Is that a replaceable bushing? Has anyone tried this part?

Thanks,

Peter

 

[RickB]

#21 appear to be replaceable bushings in the loader boom.

 

[paccorti]

I'm curious how these parts would actually work. Unless you press fit them into the loader frame they could possibly spin (since the greased part of the pin would be only touching the inside part of #21).

Peter

 

[RickB]

I'm curious how these parts would actually work. Unless you press fit them into the loader frame they could possibly spin (since the greased part of the pin would be only touching the inside part of #21).

Peter

They are pressed in.

 

[jinman]

They are pressed in.

Rick, would you say these are field installable? Can I use a drift punch to remove them and maybe a big c-clamp to press in new bushings? Or is this one of those things that I should just bite the bullet and take my loader in to the dealer to have done? My main bucket pivot at the bottom of my lift arms is getting pretty loose.

 

[RickB]

I would expect to cut them out with a bushing cutter or cape chisel, than drive the new bushings in with a bushing driver of the proper size (or suitable alternative), and a drilling hammer. A 'C' clamp would probably work if the thread on the lead screw weren't too coarse.

 

[jinman]

Well Rick, just from your description, I think my dealer's shop is likely to have all the right tools and experience. I'm just glad to see that the 16LA has replaceable bushings. I think a trip to my dealer's shop might be the best way for me to go. It's about time I took my tractor "home" for a visit anyhow.

 

[paccorti]

Jim,

I'm in the same boat. I measured the bore on the main bucket pin and I got 1.3". The Pin seems to be 1.25" so I have .05" of play (almost 1/16" feels like more than it sounds like). Did you notice in the diagram that it says for some part number and later? My 16LA does not have replaceable bushings so I'm wondering how this would work. Do I bore it out to take the bushing? That seems dicey for me (at home) as you need precise alignment with the other loader bore (so that the bucket rotates around a common axis). When I was at the dealer the other day I priced these parts and I think they were ~$2.70 each.

Jim are you thinking of taking the plunge?

Peter

 

[paccorti]

Opps the picture does not say that. When I looked on the NH part website it said that (for part #21).

21 12 87028439 SPACER , P.I.N. YL365872 & After

Peter

 

[RickB]

Jim,

I'm in the same boat. I measured the bore on the main bucket pin and I got 1.3". The Pin seems to be 1.25" so I have .05" of play (almost 1/16" feels like more than it sounds like). Did you notice in the diagram that it says for some part number and later? My 16LA does not have replaceable bushings so I'm wondering how this would work. Do I bore it out to take the bushing? That seems dicey for me (at home) as you need precise alignment with the other loader bore (so that the bucket rotates around a common axis). When I was at the dealer the other day I priced these parts and I think they were ~$2.70 each.

Jim are you thinking of taking the plunge?

Peter

Which bore did you measure?
How have you determined that your loader doesn't have replaceable bushings?

 

[jinman]

How have you determined that your loader doesn't have replaceable bushings?

Rick, my loader is YL350697 and the parts list says this bushing is on YL365872 and after. That makes me believe my loader will have to be bored for the bushings to fit. That's probably true for Peter's loader too.

 

[RickB]

Rick, my loader is YL350697 and the parts list says this bushing is on YL365872 and after. That makes me believe my loader will have to be bored for the bushings to fit. That's probably true for Peter's loader too.

I guess I missed that as well.

 

[paccorti]

Rick,

Good questions. On the picture I measured the leftmost lower bucket bore. I must admit I took just a few measurements (for example I didn't get max and mins and did not measure vertically). Last weekend I actually took apart the entire 4 link area and cleaned my ten years of accumulated grease and dirt. It certainly did not look like the bores are replaceable (although if they are pressed in it might be hard to tell).

The other option of course is to have a new over-sized pins made. Out of curiosity what is the optimal fit (how tight should it be)?

If I had my choice I would re-engineer how these pins work. I'd like a mechanism which actually traps the grease between the bore and pin say an "O" ring fitted to both pin ends (just inside the bore). Since the old grease couldn't be pumped out of the bore (past the "O" rings, I'd create a relief port (much like the grease intake) that permits old grease to exit ultimately from the center of the pin (opposite the intake side). I'd fit this exit port with a screw that would trap the grease. When you grease the tractor you'd remove the screw to permit the old grease to be pumped away. Otherwise the screw would be in and trapping the grease until the next change.

Peter

 

[RickB]

Rick,

Good questions. On the picture I measured the leftmost lower bucket bore. I must admit I took just a few measurements (for example I didn't get max and mins and did not measure vertically). Last weekend I actually took apart the entire 4 link area and cleaned my ten years of accumulated grease and dirt. It certainly did not look like the bores are replaceable (although if they are pressed in it might be hard to tell).

The other option of course is to have a new over-sized pins made. Out of curiosity what is the optimal fit (how tight should it be)?

If I had my choice I would re-engineer how these pins work. I'd like a mechanism which actually traps the grease between the bore and pin say an "O" ring fitted to both pin ends (just inside the bore). Since the old grease couldn't be pumped out of the bore (past the "O" rings, I'd create a relief port (much like the grease intake) that permits old grease to exit ultimately from the center of the pin (opposite the intake side). I'd fit this exit port with a screw that would trap the grease. When you grease the tractor you'd remove the screw to permit the old grease to be pumped away. Otherwise the screw would be in and trapping the grease until the next change.

Peter

The bucket mount pin bores are not the primary wear point. The pin is trapped by the cross bolt and does not rotate in, or wear significantly on, the pin bores mounted to the bucket. Also true of the loader boom mounts bolted to the midpoint of the tractor.
You can do as you wish, but for my money you are overthinking this by a huge factor. Loader pins and bushings are not meant to be a close machined fit, and creating close tolerances in these areas has a highly unattractive cost/benefit ratio. Frequent applications of modest amounts of whatever grease is readily available is all that is required to keep everything working properly for years or thousands of hours.

 

[paccorti]

The bucket mount pin bores are not the primary wear point. The pin is trapped by the cross bolt and does not rotate in, or wear significantly on, the pin bores mounted to the bucket. Also true of the loader boom mounts bolted to the midpoint of the tractor.
You can do as you wish, but for my money you are overthinking this by a huge factor. Loader pins and bushings are not meant to be a close machined fit, and creating close tolerances in these areas has a highly unattractive cost/benefit ratio. Frequent applications of modest amounts of whatever grease is readily available is all that is required to keep everything working properly for years or thousands of hours.

LOL half the fun is over-thinking these things! As you can probably tell I'm a nerd at heart and not really happy unless I have some problem to solve. When I said bucket bore I did mean on the loader frame and not the bucket itself.

Peter

 

[PoleClimber]

I put a complete set of these in my loader without pressing them in. I drove the old ones out with a punch and seated the new ones in with a scrap piece of steel and a hammer. It doesn't take much to replace them.

 

[dave1949]

The bucket mount pin bores are not the primary wear point. The pin is trapped by the cross bolt and does not rotate in, or wear significantly on, the pin bores mounted to the bucket. Also true of the loader boom mounts bolted to the midpoint of the tractor.
You can do as you wish, but for my money you are overthinking this by a huge factor. Loader pins and bushings are not meant to be a close machined fit, and creating close tolerances in these areas has a highly unattractive cost/benefit ratio. Frequent applications of modest amounts of whatever grease is readily available is all that is required to keep everything working properly for years or thousands of hours.

I guess I have to disagree Rick. I know I have used my pre-bushings loader hard, but I also greased it alot. The bore holes in the loader arms for the bucket do wear. Once they start to wear, they hold grease ever more poorly -which accelerates the wear. My pins look like new! It makes no sense whatsoever to have harder pins than non-renewable bores, that is an absolute bassackwards design flaw.
Dave.

 

[RickB]

I guess I have to disagree Rick. I know I have used my pre-bushings loader hard, but I also greased it alot. The bore holes in the loader arms for the bucket do wear. Once they start to wear, they hold grease ever more poorly -which accelerates the wear. My pins look like new! It makes no sense whatsoever to have harder pins than non-renewable bores, that is an absolute bassackwards design flaw.
Dave.

You are disagreeing because you did not comprehend what I posted. I wrote that the pin bores in the BUCKET are not the primary wear point.

 

[dave1949]

You are disagreeing because you did not comprehend what I posted. I wrote that the pin bores in the BUCKET are not the primary wear point.

Fair enough. I did overlook that.
Dave.

 

[paccorti]

PoleClimber,

The two bearings are not as wide as the loader frame's total width. Did you press the bearings all the way to the center of the bore or did you press them in until they were flush with the frame. The bearings seem to have a very tight fit to the pins (which will be nice).

Curious,

Peter