16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall

   / 16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall #31  
I gotta side with eddie on this one. I have seen many homes built with just a 2x12's with osb for spacing for 16 garage door with a bedroom directly above and neglect to use 2x4 on top and bottom on header for deflection of garage door push/pull motions. I still dont see why you need a 6k lbs in the exact middle. The only thing that comes to my mind is you want to drive a tractor or something to the edge of the second floor right above the garage door. Most of the storage weight or tools you would be using is distributed on the floor beams , not on the garage door header directly.

What are you planning on doing up there so we can help you plan better?
 
   / 16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall #32  
Also - we came up with current technology building techniques, but didnt know you wanted to go cheaper. usually this is the best way to have regrets instead of doing something right the first time. Believe me, I get it-its hard to spend your own money on the right materials, but easy for us to say it behind the cyber keyboard.
 
   / 16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall #33  
radioman-he made an assumption on his roof loading based on a uniform snow load and 8' truss spacing.

OP, I strongly caution you not to just use online engineering calculators. They will spit out an answer but there are several failure elements that must be designed and accounted for that they don't inform you about. Its assumed that the person using them knows what they are doing.
 
   / 16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall #34  
I was guessing he was using an area of 21' long (1/2 of the 40' span of his trusses) + 1' for overhang and multiplying it by 8' wide (the spacing of his trusses). This should lead to an area that has to be supported being about 168 square feet. Again, I'm making some assumptions/guesses, but I'm figuring 5 lbs/sq. ft. for dead load (building materials) and 30 lbs/sq. ft. for snow loading for a total of 35 lbs/sq. ft. X 165 sq. ft. = 5,880 lbs total load. I think the OP's concern is that all of this load will be more or less point loaded in the center of the span.

Reviewing some span tables that I have, they say that a No. 2 SYP 2x12 (dressed) will support an evenly distributed load of 1,582 lbs on a 16' span. My table also notes that point loading halves the value of loading, so in this situation, the 2x12 would only be rated to support 791 lbs.

I think the pole barn has 6x6 poles, so a width of 5.5" is what the OP would like to stay at, which would be 3-2x12s with 2 pieces of 1/2" plywood or OSB sandwiched to make the 5.5" wide work out. However, I believe that the fear is that this header wouldn't be equal to the task.

If it were my barn, which it is not, I would go with 3-2x12's and sandwich plywood/osb and call it good. Most of the load tables are pretty conservative and they base it on a minimal deflection (1/240 of span on this particular table). Depending on how I was going to finish the inside of the barn, I would probably go ahead and go with 4-2x12s and let it stick out a little bit. Either way, I wouldn't lose sleep over a lack of strength in this header.

So to the OP, I think you've been given a myriad of advice, all worth exactly what you've paid for it. Good luck with whatever you choose and take care.
 
   / 16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall #35  
If there is any interest, I have an old pamphlet from teh American Plywood Association showing how to make plywood/lumber box beams that are for carrying header and roof peak loads. A quick look indicates that you could build a 24" deep box beam that could support an evenly distributed load of 10,224 lbs, so even at the 1/2 rating for point loading, this would still be stronger than just dimensional lumber. This is also based on building it out of 3/4" plywood and 2x4s, so it's total width would be about 6".

Just thought I would throw that out there as well.
 
   / 16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall
  • Thread Starter
#36  
I still dont see why you need a 6k lbs in the exact middle. The only thing that comes to my mind is you want to drive a tractor or something to the edge of the second floor right above the garage door.

Some others answered this pretty well, as did I a few posts ago. 8' OC trusses spanning 40' with 1' overhangs. Makes each truss end have to carry 6000#. For every other truss it is a non-issue, as they will be sitting on top of posts @ 8' OC as well. Except for the 16' door opening which is absent the post.

Also - we came up with current technology building techniques, but didnt know you wanted to go cheaper. usually this is the best way to have regrets instead of doing something right the first time. Believe me, I get it-its hard to spend your own money on the right materials, but easy for us to say it behind the cyber keyboard.

Not looking to go cheaper in the sense that you mean. Just not looking to overspend if it is un-needed.

I could go with 8x8 posts, 2x8 walls, and 12" thick concrete if I wanted. But the only thing I would regret would be the empty wallet.

IF, $80 of lumber is capable of doing the job just as well as a $200 LVL, steel, etc. Then why spend extra is my question.

I was guessing he was using an area of 21' long (1/2 of the 40' span of his trusses) + 1' for overhang and multiplying it by 8' wide (the spacing of his trusses). This should lead to an area that has to be supported being about 168 square feet. Again, I'm making some assumptions/guesses, but I'm figuring 5 lbs/sq. ft. for dead load (building materials) and 30 lbs/sq. ft. for snow loading for a total of 35 lbs/sq. ft. X 165 sq. ft. = 5,880 lbs total load. I think the OP's concern is that all of this load will be more or less point loaded in the center of the span.

Pretty much spot on. I was figuring 30PSF total load and adding and extra 1000 though for good measure.


Reviewing some span tables that I have, they say that a No. 2 SYP 2x12 (dressed) will support an evenly distributed load of 1,582 lbs on a 16' span. My table also notes that point loading halves the value of loading, so in this situation, the 2x12 would only be rated to support 791 lbs.

I think the pole barn has 6x6 poles, so a width of 5.5" is what the OP would like to stay at, which would be 3-2x12s with 2 pieces of 1/2" plywood or OSB sandwiched to make the 5.5" wide work out. However, I believe that the fear is that this header wouldn't be equal to the task.

If it were my barn, which it is not, I would go with 3-2x12's and sandwich plywood/osb and call it good. Most of the load tables are pretty conservative and they base it on a minimal deflection (1/240 of span on this particular table). Depending on how I was going to finish the inside of the barn, I would probably go ahead and go with 4-2x12s and let it stick out a little bit. Either way, I wouldn't lose sleep over a lack of strength in this header.

So to the OP, I think you've been given a myriad of advice, all worth exactly what you've paid for it. Good luck with whatever you choose and take care.

SO given all of that, IF it was your barn and you had 24" of height to work with for a header, you would still choose to stack them up side by side? With 4 stacked beside eachother the "total load" based on 791# each is just a tad over 3000# capacity. Or only half of what I need.

Taking a 2x12 and placing it beside the first doubles the capacity.

TAking a 2x12 and placing it UNDER the first, (thus creating a 2x24), you get 8x's the srength.

Really, a 2x12 with a 2x12 under it is enough to hold the 6000#. The 2' strip of plywood holding them together is just an added bonus. Only concern now would be the horizontal strength. A 2" thick beam over 16' dont offer much of that. But a simple 2x6 or 2x8 laid flat across the top (and/or botom) of the header should suffice.
 
   / 16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall #37  
keep in mind, it is not all "down ward" force you are looking at. but also side ways force as well.
trusses and door beam.png

random beam drawings.
beams random drawings.png
 
   / 16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall #38  
For built up beams (2x, and plywood etc...) a quality (polyurethane etc.) construction adhesive applied solidly with a roller to all internal surfaces will help decrease deflection...

Since this beam is not going to have any lateral (side) loads a strict (engineered) nailing pattern is not critical...
 
   / 16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall
  • Thread Starter
#39  
Boogen....the sideways force should be minimal since it will be trusses and not rafters.

I have a made-up beam in my head at the moment. Let me sketch it out and will post.

Just don't think a pair (or even 3) 2x12's side x side with plywood is gonna be enough. I don't think even a pair of 14-16",lvl's will be sufficient.

The beam I propose I think will be stronger.
 
   / 16' opening Door header: on load bearing wall #40  
Two questions for the OP...

(1.) are you having engineered trusses made by a plant ?

(2.) if yes to #1 did you ask them about (the cost of) designing/producing the headers?
 

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