1920 Cranks - Won't Fire

[toddwulf]

OK Guys - I went back through the manual to verify fuel selector position
(I have three -9oclock is on (reserve I suspect), 12 oclock is on (per manual), 3 oclock is off)
I put 5 fresh gallons of diesel in the tank.
There is no bleed on the fuel filter. First bleed point is on the injector pump. Gushing out of that.
Bled each injector line as described. I think I bled them enough. They were spraying high pressure streams of fuel when I closed them off.
Still puffing out black when I crank her over but alas no fire. She want's to catch but for some reason just isn't.
I haven't tried the pull method yet. What makes y'all think that will work better than the starter? I get the point of not stressing the starter. How long should I expect to pull her for before I give up or she starts?

I did notice a constant drip leak (once every ten seconds or so) at the bottom of the fuel filter. Perhaps I didn't seat the filter properly and that is causing the problem???

 

[JC-jetro]

OK Guys - I went back through the manual to verify fuel selector position
(I have three -9oclock is on (reserve I suspect), 12 oclock is on (per manual), 3 oclock is off)
I put 5 fresh gallons of diesel in the tank.
There is no bleed on the fuel filter. First bleed point is on the injector pump. Gushing out of that.
Bled each injector line as described. I think I bled them enough. They were spraying high pressure streams of fuel when I closed them off.
Still puffing out black when I crank her over but alas no fire. She want's to catch but for some reason just isn't.
I haven't tried the pull method yet. What makes y'all think that will work better than the starter? I get the point of not stressing the starter. How long should I expect to pull her for before I give up or she starts?

I did notice a constant drip leak (once every ten seconds or so) at the bottom of the fuel filter. Perhaps I didn't seat the filter properly and that is causing the problem???

Filter does not provide a lot of pressure loss for the flow once clean. You should be getting a steady stream of fuel coming out of filter filter in to a cup. I'd remove the flex hose out of the fuel filter assembly before it goes to injector with fuel supply valve closed. Static height of fuel in the tank should cause the steady fuel flow our of the end of the hose in a cup. How about air filter and air delivery in to combustion chamber ? Any blockage that you can see? do you have turbo? have you put the filter in upside down?

JC,

 

[toddwulf]

Fuel flows into the filter freely. Removing the injector pump bleed screw completely, fuel flows freely from the orifice even when not cranking. Have not removed the line from filter to pump to check.

The source of the leak was the top of fuel filter feed line back to tank. There is another dump line that runs from the injector tube (firewall side) back to the fuel tank and that was cracked as well. Will replace these later today. The injector line leakage may have caused it not to build up sufficient injector pressure or maintain an air free delivery system??? Thinking out loud here.

The air filter and canister has been off the whole time I've been working on this. Have to remove it to get to the firewall side injector to bleed it. It is not a turbo and there is only one way to put the air filter back in so I don't think that is it given that it has been removed since I started. It got a thorough cleaning as well as the canister.

I did notice that there appears to be junk (detritus) in the fuel coming from the tank to the filter. I suspect the filter has been blocking this from fouling the injectors but that is an assumption. When I crank the engine, black smoke that smells of unburned diesel is what comes out of the stack.

 

[jinman]

I went back and read this whole thread, but didn't see a lot about checking the glow plugs. Have you checked the power to the glow plugs? I'd put a meter on the wire going to the plugs and cycle them once to see if they are getting power. Your description just sounds to me like a diesel engine without a glow plug cycle. If you have a voltmeter to check for glow plug power before cranking, it might show you exactly where the problem is located.

 

[toddwulf]

Jinman, I've never really used the glow plug. Tractor has always fired right up within 1-2 seconds on the starter w/o use of GP. It stays relatively warm here in Northern California. Daytime temps for the past 90 days have been around 55-60 and low's rarely have been under 40. I did fire the glow plug when I started having the problem and it appears to operate normally with the light going out after 5 or so seconds on the key.

 

[toddwulf]

OK - This AM I replaced the two defective hoses and still not getting fire with symptoms all unchanged. If I pull the tractor, how is that going to be any different than cranking over on the starter, other than less wear on the starter?

 

[jinman]

Todd, I believe towing would turn the engine over faster and cause a heat rise in each cylinder quicker/higher than you get with just using the starter. It also will clear out the cylinders in case you have excess fuel. I won't call it flooding because that would open a whole new can-o-worms, but since you are not glowing the engine and have cranked to the point you are getting puffs of smoke without starting, I think something akin to too rich a mixture might be happening. The terminology I've heard regarding diesels is slobbering instead of flooding.

If you do still have air in the lines, towing would likely also clear lines of air much quicker that using the starter. I don't think air is your problem since you described fuel spraying out of the lines to the injectors, but I'm just covering all the bases.

 

[tawilson]

Todd,
I can see your are close to beating your head against the wall. I don't have the mechanical expertise that others have, but that won't stop me from throwing in my 2 cents. Any problem I have I like to eliminate possibilities. I read this thread and didn't see this mentioned: are you sure you don't have a fuel problem. I think I'd drain the fuel and start with fresh. I know it was running but I'd consider it anyways.
The other thing is electrical. Can someone tell him where to check to make sure a safety switch or a kill switch hasn't tripped or broke? I could track it down on my tractor if I was looking at it but I can't from here.
Good luck and when you figure it out you'll probably feel like beating your head against the wall then, cause it was so simple.

 

[toddwulf]

OK Jim, that makes sense. Now, do I choose my teenager to pull me around or my wife!

Tom, I've been thinking the same thing. Although we haven't had anything resembling rain since October I was thinking I should drain it and refill just to be certain. I will mention that I removed and reset the filter twice to chase the drip and the fuel looked like good diesel. I would think I've dumped about a quart or more out by now and flushed any low hanging water out. I've also added 5 gallons of fresh in the past week.

If water had happened to get into the intake, could that be part of my problem? Wouldn't it just burn out or evaporate at some point and cause the cranking smoke to be white?

 

[JC-jetro]

Fuel Might be an issue but as far I remember this thing ran prior to filter change... don't know how that could change the quality of fuel.

I doubt if you changed the timing on your fuel pump... did you by any chance fiddle with fuel pump timing adjustment? that can certainly work negatively toward getting her started.
Having juice going to glow plug does not mean it is working. Does it get hot? I'm actually planning to take my glow plug out and grapph a temp rise for my own satisfaction. I don't know if it actually glows, but will find it out.

We're talking diesel and the pump here is mechanical... so safety switched don't do anything once it is pull started. Safeties only keep the starter from coming on and that's it. You're truing the flywheel thru transmission coupled to rear wheel.

By pulling you have a lot more continuity to get the combustion to happen thru constant full compression and the heat it develops to start unwilling diesel engine. Once she starts and warms up it'll be much easier using normal starter. One last thing, do you have fuel shut off solenoid? I'm pretty sure you do. need to make sure that is open (Normally closed) to pull start. A closed solenoid would not allow the fuel to be injected in to combustion chamber.

I hope your fuel timing is not disturbed.


JC,