20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method?

   / 20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method?
  • Thread Starter
#11  

This link might give you some ideas . or some links for your research :)
Thanks DGZRT, didn't see this thread I have searched out similar all over the Internet. I will check it out. Seems like everyone has a slightly different purpose or situation so it's hard to find an exact match. Really envious of my neighbors who have nice flat lots and plenty of area to construct their buildings. It's hard to get any contractors interested in this project, they all want the easy ones.
 
   / 20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method? #12  
If I'm looking at your diagrams correctly, I don't like either of your proposals.
Is the property line just 8 feet from the rear of the structure?
If so I'd definitely not go with the so called retaining wall of large stone.
Also the wooden wall would not be repairable in several years with that narrow of a working area.
My only way would be spread footers with the tops of the footers below frost level,
they can be stair stepped from the back wall to the front. Then pour a stem wall for a
post frame building to be set on. The long expanse on the back wall would likely need a couple of
reinforcing columns to be used. Then the interior can be filled with compacted gravel and a slab poured.
 
   / 20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method? #13  
I have 22x30 on down slope giving lots of storage under the top floor with full 7' height going back 20 of the 30 at ground level grade.

My upstairs floor is concrete over plywood supported by joists...

Glad to have the extra room for my BX23, air compressor, shovels, etc ..
 
   / 20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method?
  • Thread Starter
#14  
If I'm looking at your diagrams correctly, I don't like either of your proposals.
Is the property line just 8 feet from the rear of the structure?
If so I'd definitely not go with the so called retaining wall of large stone.
Also the wooden wall would not be repairable in several years with that narrow of a working area.
My only way would be spread footers with the tops of the footers below frost level,
they can be stair stepped from the back wall to the front. Then pour a stem wall for a
post frame building to be set on. The long expanse on the back wall would likely need a couple of
reinforcing columns to be used. Then the interior can be filled with compacted gravel and a slab poured.
Lou, that's one reason why I don't like the boulder retaining wall proposal, proximity to the property line. I might be able to situate it to give a little more margin. But even if I did that it does not get around the fact that this would be one huge pile of ugly rip-rap which will look more like an industrial coffer dam than anything else. So I am thinking I will cross that one off the list.

Not sure what you mean about a wooden wall. Proposal #2 is a reinforced wood platform supported by posts/joists. No fill, it's a wedge shaped void under the floor. Essentially like a raised deck platform. Are you talking about needing to get under this structure to repair joists for some reason? Not quite able to visualize your suggestion, might need a sketch.

Ultimately as someone else mentioned, the best solution is a poured concrete foundation with proper footers - the end result would be very similar to the poured walls of a walkout basement. So that will be my next call, to get an estimate for that, I am sure it will be costly but once built, that will be here 50 years from now. Not sure about either of the other proposals.
 
   / 20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method?
  • Thread Starter
#15  
I have 22x30 on down slope giving lots of storage under the top floor with full 7' height going back 20 of the 30 at ground level grade.

My upstairs floor is concrete over plywood supported by joists...

Glad to have the extra room for my BX23, air compressor, shovels, etc ..
Gotcha - the underside of this building won't be useful for us, even if I had storage space under there. This is because there is a 25% grade leading down to a "lower floor". Maybe I could build some sort of access road to get down there... but it would not be trivial.

One thing you said was interesting - concrete over plywood? I have never heard of that. Could you explain that?
 
   / 20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method? #16  
Here are a couple photos from additions I have added onto my pole barn over the years. This older addition had about a 3' drop to the rear, which I handled with an extra skirt board (marine lumber, will outlast me) and a crude log retaining wall:

IMG_5694.jpeg


At the time I made a mental plan to come back and make a nicer retaining wall or just dump gravel there and slope it, but that was about 5 years ago and the clock is still ticking on my plans. Surprisingly, the logs are still solid too, but that won't last forever. I'd probably use marine lumber for the permanant retaining wall (they make a tongue and groove material for bulkheads that is real nice). But the prices will need to drop/stabilize before I spend that kind of money.

Here's another addition where I used an extra skirt (ground contact 2x10) and then let #57 gravel spill out from under the skirt boards until I had a nice sloped berm. The berm was topped with crusher run and then wood chips, and has held up well. That was probably about a 4' drop at the low corner (closest to the camera).

IMG_5693.jpeg


I put a dead-main in the middle of the rear skirt extension (you can see the bolts and plates), just in case any pressure was put there by the gravel. So far the skirt has not budged after a few years of parking cars in there, so either it wasn't a problem or the dead-man is doing it's job. If you have sufficient posts that can handle the retaining load, then a dead-main isn't needed. For instance, on the eave walls I have a lot of posts to support the header and roof load, and did not put dead mans there.

I think if this was planned properly with large long posts, you could incorporate a retaining wall (full or partial) into the main poles of the barn. They'd have to be long enough to frame the wall and go down below your frost line to a footing, so that could be the issue -- those might be very long posts when all that is taken into account ($$$ and or availability issues).

That assumes you are wed to the pole barn method. I happen to like it myself for many reasons. But it works best and is the most econimically viable when you can build on flat or mildly sloped ground and if you are OK with a gravel floor. Once you pour a concrete floor in a pole barn, you may have been better off building with standard stick-framing on a slab, or stick framing on a concrete block foundation.

BTW, you can do a concrete block foundation that will handle a 6' drop and then backfill that with gravel. It just needs to be engineered properly. Don't know the cost or feasibility of that myself. I just know that the garage on our main house has a block wall and sloped about 4' front to back. The back of the foundation has 4' of gravel and concrete debris to fill it out and support the slab.
 
   / 20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method? #17  
It’s common in the SF Bay Area…

Concrete Slab supported by wood framing…

I too have a steep grade as it drops 8’ in 30’ but Kubota and 2wd pickup no problem on well compacted gravel

I did not original permitted construction… as always I said should have been 24x30 or even 24x 32 or 36…

Wood floors not allowed in garages so concrete needed…
 
   / 20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method? #18  
Found pictures of our garage foundation, first is before gravel fill, notice that far corner:

IMG_2578.jpeg


Now here it is after gravel:

IMG_2585.jpeg


Looks to be about 6 courses of block below the gravel in the far corner, so figure about 48" of fill there. All built to code and kosher.

Hope that helps!
 
   / 20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method? #19  
Rock. Lots of rock. Build up to a level grade then build the barn as normal. If the fill can be tapered off sufficiently, you'll be able to mow and all the road will see is a grass hill with a barn on top.

Check with contractors or the area road departments to see if they need a place to dump spoils from projects.
 
   / 20' X 24' Pole barn on 25% slope - best method? #20  
Thanks for the suggestion. I've heard about this method, and I guess you could excavate into the hill,and use some of that material to "pad up" the rearward downslope area. Seems like the main advantage of that method is reducing the amount of fill - although the concrete pad still needs to be at grade on the left in these sketches, so wouldn't volume of fill be the same? Seems like you would still need a retaining wall of some sort around this earthen pad which will be supporting the concrete floor (and the weight of equipment). This is a clay area when you get down a foot or so. That stuff is pretty greasy, over time gravity will try to slide the concrete pad/gravel/earth fill on down the slope unless you have some retaining wall, especially on the downhill side.
You dig into the hill more than the building depth. Same goes for the sides. The building site can so arranged to not sit on fill.
 
 
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