2008 F250 4x4 Diesel or V10?

[Builder]

I think the 6.2L might replace the 5.4 V-8 and the V-10 because of stiffer CAFE standards. The 6.2L will have direct injection and displacement on demand to meet stricter mileage standards as well as up to 7L displacement. Last year, there was an article about the Lincoln Navigator appearing late in summer '08 with the new "Boss".

Everything else I read says the Boss goes into F Series trucks first.

GM is rumored to be moving their own 6.2L already in the Denali into their pickups to replace the 6L.

 

[beefeater]

That new boss 6.2 is slated for the Harley Davidson edition of the 2009 F150. The standard F150 is not due out until September. Therefore, the HD edition with the new Boss 6.2 is not likely to appear until late Fall of after- say November/December. That's nearly one year from now. Who knows when it will show up in the F250's?

As usual with these sorts of things, are you willing to be buying Ford's first year production run? I'm not. So for me, the Boss 6.2 with the corresponding new tranny etc is not even a gleam in my eye for two years. The V10 is still looking like the gasser to buy, for as long as it is available.

 

[Builder]

That new boss 6.2 is slated for the Harley Davidson edition of the 2009 F150. The standard F150 is not due out until September. Therefore, the HD edition with the new Boss 6.2 is not likely to appear until late Fall of after- say November/December. That's nearly one year from now. Who knows when it will show up in the F250's?

As usual with these sorts of things, are you willing to be buying Ford's first year production run? I'm not. So for me, the Boss 6.2 with the corresponding new tranny etc is not even a gleam in my eye for two years. The V10 is still looking like the gasser to buy, for as long as it is available.

And in that same train of thought, look at all the guys who ran out and bought new 6.4L twin turbo diesels.....pretty gutsy indeed.

If I outgrow my current GMC, I might pick up a 010 or 011 F-350 crewcab with a utility body with the 6.2L Boss engine if GM doesn't make any improved gas engine moves in the next few years. If someone can give me more than 500 ftlbs in a gas engine with unleaded .50 c. under diesel, then why not.

 

[Dargo]

I can't fully agree there.

Think about it for a minute. Ford could easily build lots of V-10's. Everyone here, including me, has wanted one at one time and they are definately the best/most heavy duty big gasser of the big three brands of truck. If Ford stocks the lots wide & deep with V-10's, it will cut into the more profitable diesel truck sales and everyone up & down the chain makes less money-Ford, owner of dealership,

Sorry man, I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just telling you the plain facts. I'm in the business. The fact is that the diesel pickups are the ones in demand, so that is what the dealers stock. Believe me, they can get all the V10's they want. The dealers only care to stock what sells and what sells for a profit. For some reason it seems that you want to think that I'm saying that the V10 engines are junk; I'm not. I'm simply saying flat out, no opinion involved, only fact, that they do not sell well at all. Ford has no trouble selling their diesel pickups at all and it is completely off base to think that Ford holds off on delivering V10 pickups to help sell their diesel pickups. Trust me, after 23 years in the business, dealers stock what will sell and sell for a profit.

I am actually in the market for an Excursion right now and that is why I've watched what the V10 SuperDuty pickups and V10 Excursions have sold for at auction vs their diesel counter parts. The difference this last Thursday between the price of a V10 powered unit and a diesel powered unit in 2000 and 2001 model years was nearly 8000 on average!

 

[Z-Michigan]

There's no way a Powerstroke diesel costs ~$6,500 more to manufacture than a V-10.

I don't know if I'd agree with that. A couple issues with the Powerstroke diesel:
-manufactured by an outside vendor, Navistar Intl, who has to make their own profit
-basically no parts commonality with any part of any gas engine they make
-high pressure diesel fuel injector pump - $1000? $1500?
-cost of diesel type high pressure fuel injectors - $500???
-diesel particulate filter on 2007+ models - $1500?
-turbocharger - $500? (I know DMAX and Cummins use a variable nozzle turbo that would cost even more, I don't know whether Ford uses VNT)
-different transmission to handle much more torque than gassers - $??
-added warranty costs because of longer warranty (100k) and heavier use in service - $?? And remember Ford's huge dispute with Navistar a year ago that lead to a shutdown of diesel engine shipments for a couple weeks; that showdown was over warranty costs and which company had to pay them.

I really don't know the price of any particular component, I'm just pointing out that there are lot more expensive parts that go into a diesel engine, compared to a naturally aspirated gas engine with port fuel injection. The cost gap might narrow as gas engines adopt turbos and direct injection, but for the moment - I think it's a big, real gap.

Not arguing that Ford doesn't make money off each diesel, I'm sure they are quite profitable, but saying that I don't think it's anything like an added $6500 in profit.

 

[joes_427_vette]

I think you should special order the v-10. I bet they want 50 percent down in the event you don't take it. They are sale proof used and no dealer in his right mind stocks them... and for good reason.
Take a good look at the hood on the ford.... they circle the problem for you !

 

[Builder]

I don't know if I'd agree with that. A couple issues with the Powerstroke diesel:
-manufactured by an outside vendor, Navistar Intl, who has to make their own profit
-basically no parts commonality with any part of any gas engine they make
-high pressure diesel fuel injector pump - $1000? $1500?
-cost of diesel type high pressure fuel injectors - $500???
-diesel particulate filter on 2007+ models - $1500?
-turbocharger - $500? (I know DMAX and Cummins use a variable nozzle turbo that would cost even more, I don't know whether Ford uses VNT)
-different transmission to handle much more torque than gassers - $??
-added warranty costs because of longer warranty (100k) and heavier use in service - $?? And remember Ford's huge dispute with Navistar a year ago that lead to a shutdown of diesel engine shipments for a couple weeks; that showdown was over warranty costs and which company had to pay them.

I really don't know the price of any particular component, I'm just pointing out that there are lot more expensive parts that go into a diesel engine, compared to a naturally aspirated gas engine with port fuel injection. The cost gap might narrow as gas engines adopt turbos and direct injection, but for the moment - I think it's a big, real gap.

Not arguing that Ford doesn't make money off each diesel, I'm sure they are quite profitable, but saying that I don't think it's anything like an added $6500 in profit.

I know they don't because I've bought Powerstrokes from a vendor before and they weren't $6,500.

Ford gets 'em a wee bit cheaper than me, don't you think? They buy in "bulk".

 

[Builder]

Sorry man, I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just telling you the plain facts. I'm in the business. The fact is that the diesel pickups are the ones in demand, so that is what the dealers stock. Believe me, they can get all the V10's they want. The dealers only care to stock what sells and what sells for a profit. For some reason it seems that you want to think that I'm saying that the V10 engines are junk; I'm not. I'm simply saying flat out, no opinion involved, only fact, that they do not sell well at all. Ford has no trouble selling their diesel pickups at all and it is completely off base to think that Ford holds off on delivering V10 pickups to help sell their diesel pickups. Trust me, after 23 years in the business, dealers stock what will sell and sell for a profit.

I am actually in the market for an Excursion right now and that is why I've watched what the V10 SuperDuty pickups and V10 Excursions have sold for at auction vs their diesel counter parts. The difference this last Thursday between the price of a V10 powered unit and a diesel powered unit in 2000 and 2001 model years was nearly 8000 on average!

WTH are you talking about? I never said you said V-10's are junk. I also said that dealers stack their lots deep with Powerstrokes because they're profitable. You must have me mixed up with someone else. So relax. ...seem like a touchy little grasshopper today.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I know they don't because I've bought Powerstrokes from a vendor before and they weren't $6,500.

Ford gets 'em a wee bit cheaper than me, don't you think? They buy in "bulk".

Yeah, I imagine they do. What model/year of Powerstroke did you buy, was it brand spanking new, and what did it cost? Now I'm curious... if you happen to know what a 2006 Cummins ISB goes for (new), I'd be curious about that too!

 

[beefeater]

Dargo,

You still haven't addressed my comments above regarding the V8's that ARE on most dealer's lots along with the diesels.

Everything you claim about the V10's applies to the V8's and yet, dealer's are stocking the V8's.

What gives?